From owner-fsj-digest@digest.net Fri Jan 4 03:46:12 2013 From: fsj-digest To: fsj-digest@digest.net Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:45:18 +0000 Subject: fsj-digest V1 #4006 fsj-digest Friday, January 4 2013 Volume 01 : Number 4006 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... RE: fsj: mpg question fsj: Re: mpg question on 95-00 xj fsj: Re: xj: Re: mpg question on 95-00 xj Re: [FSJ-List] RE: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:00:27 +0000 From: "john" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... Is that elliot snydam? He used to live up here, he got the cab from my 75 that I turned into a trailer. He moved down to texas years ago! How much? John ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair Sender: owner-fsj@digest.net Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:56:44 To: john@wagoneers.com; ; FSJ@digest.net Reply-To: Jim Blair Cc: fsj-list@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... Elliot on IFSJA has Hydroboost kits for FSJs. > Subject: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > To: Tom.E.Potter@Williams.com; fsj@digest.net > CC: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > From: john@wagoneers.com > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:53:11 +0000 > > Was thinking more along the lines of new parts or a kit. Thought I heard about such. > > Had an 80 olds Diesel, the brakes were amazing in that car. Also doesn't the chevy astro van use it too? > > Thanx Tom, > John > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible > is worth more than a college education" > - Theodore Roosevelt > > ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Potter, Tom E" > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:11:03 > To: john; full size jeep list > Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > > The 80s Oldsmobile diesels had hydraboost. Mine seemed to work fine; I had no problems with it. > > Thomas E. Potter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj@digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj@digest.net] On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:33 PM > To: full size jeep list > Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > > 1) my son's '85 GW choked on a lifter in hole #5, camshaft snapped at #2. No worries, he's building a 4 bolt 350 (in his apartment!) for about 500hp to install... he wants to clean the engine compartment out... saw the big brake booster and master cylinder... > made some comment about manual brakes which I highly discouraged... and suggested a hydroboost setup... > > Pictures to follow... (I'm not active on the list of yahoos... in digest mode there... will share with the fsj list on digest.net later, > I'll let a yahoo post it... :) kind of cool shots of the broken lifter and flat cam lobes... engine had just under 200k... > > WHICH LEADS to TWO things: > 1) where can we get a complete hydraboost setup? > 2) does anyone want to buy the stock setup out of his '85 GW > - or any other engine type stuff (I've got the a/c setup for my '83 J10). > > > 2) my axle swap is complete on my '83 J10 long bed... swapped out the 2.72 gears for 3.31's... got the axles from Jim Blair... > turned out the original owner installed the rear brakes wrong... long shoe in the front... short in back... brakes did not work properly on my test... noticed a leaking wheel cylinder when I went to flip the shoes around... > so, taking it into les schwab tomorrow... all new shoes, cylinders and have the front end aligned... > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/J10-axle-swap-Dec-2012/ALL.html > (can't find the pictures of the rear axle now...) > > THIS ACTION SHOULD ALSO PREVENT SNOW IN THE SEATTLE AREA... you can thank me later... > > > 3) rewired under the hood of my '83 J10 this summer... I used most of the new harness from zach, but the new harness from zm jeeps had two complications, one it was for a '79 and two it required changing connectors on accessories like wiper motors, ignition modules and such - which means that if I ever replaced that stuff I'd have to mess around changing connectors... while the new connectors were superb, I opted NOT to do that change... And because the '79 and '83 are different on TWO OR THREE pins, and those pins happen to be high current pins... I ended up creating a hybrid harness using bits and pieces of both... I spent 8 hours going through schematics, pin by freaking pin... not fun... of course factory manuals don't go into a great deal of detail on things like ballast resistors and resistive wire for the alternator... > > bottom line, if you have a '79 or comparable that harness would be great, except for the new style connectors for the wiper/ignition/etc. The wire is of excellent quality and it's assembled nicely. Accurate lengths. > - if you have a different year like I did, then I'd suggest a different strategy... I spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH WIRING DIAGRAMS sorting things out... I can't find my pictures, still need to do the write up... I would NOT have been able to fix my truck without that wiring harness though... but my truck had been messed up bad by a PO who thought it was a Ford... > > IF YOU ARE FACED with just bad wires in a "good" wiring harness - replace each wire ONE at a time... my problem was the PO really loused up the wiring harness... snip-snip... I'm pretty sure who ever owned it before drove a FORD because the logic that went into > some of this stuff reminds me of my Ford vehicles... not saying the truck was abused, just confused. :) While I had to spend a lot > of time hacking up an expensive harness from a '79, it worked out ok... > > But, if you have a functional harness, replace ONE wire at a time... if it's confused... get a shop manual/wiring diagram and either figure out the current wiring diagram or depending on the year buy a new harness... you have two options... the high quality harness from zmjeeps or the painless wiring... both are expensive... the painless wiring is kind of an open ended thing... you have to make your own connectors, cut to length, etc.... when I was rewiring one Jeep that came with a painless kit... I looked at it, looked at the jeep... sold the kit and did my own wiring, and saved myself a lot of time and money... UNLESS THE KIT IS FOR THE SPECIFIC YEAR, MODEL and options AND you have an accurate wiring diagram I'd avoid any of the kits... you'd be better off getting a harness out of a wrecking yard and splitting it open and repairing it and using it... > > I still have to rewire under the dash/cab... it's a real mess... no kits... I'm on my own... been there done that... > > > 4) http://fotomeister.us/2012/09-Sep-29-J10-waterPump/ALL.html - you should be able to see the wiring updates... ;) > I thought my new water pump was leaking... turned out that the hose clamps needed to be retightened!!! I've been wrenching for 40 years... have never had a problem with clamps not being tight enough or having to retighten... talked to another mechanic this morning and he said he's found the same thing to be true, had to retighten hose clamps again... we're guessing it's the hoses themselves... different material... perhaps better? > > > 5) still trying to have curtis call or answer his phone so I can gather up all the bits and pieces of my '83 J10 stepside out Centralia... been apart since 2001... :( the sd33T is in the frame, bits and pieces painted but not reassembled... > if anyone is near Centralia, WA let me know, maybe you could stop by and say howdy for me and let Curtis know I want to pick up all my spare parts and pieces of the J10... it but I figure 12 years is long enough to wait... Not looking forward to reassembling something I didn't take apart... hoping he'll at least put the glass back in the cab so I can leave it in the driveway to work on it... Either way, I just reinstalled the hitch on my J10, getting the brakes fixed tomorrow... will wire up the trailer lights and fix the cab wiring so I can drive it down to retrieve superdawg... or just get help from a few friends with big Diesel trucks... might have to do a convoy... depending > on how many pieces superdawg is still in... :( This is the last set of pictures: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/SuperDawg/2011_August_7-frame-done-engine-in-bodypai nting/ALL.html > > happy new year... > > john > > ----- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:08:53 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: mpg question I like the 2drs myself. AVOID '96 models. They have some sensors that are OBDI and some that are OBDII and a few that are custom (temp sensor for the computer) 14-20 mpg depending on accessories and drivetrain. Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:00:38 -0200 > Subject: fsj: mpg question > From: erniesilva@gmail.com > To: fsj@digest.net > > Hi guys, a friend of mine is watching jeeps from 1995 to 2000. I don't > know the exact model but I just need an approximation of the fuel > consumption. > > Here is a sample of what he is looking for: > http://camioneta.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-405509117-jeep-cherokee-sport-full-i mpecable-_JM > > Ernesto. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:23:49 +0000 From: "john" Subject: fsj: Re: mpg question on 95-00 xj The 4.0's with aw4 autos will get 15-17 in town and 18-20 mpg on the freeway. That's a good range to look at, although the body changed slightly in 97. My research showed 95-97 as the best years for the 4.0, actually bought a 96 for one project. Late 98 or mid year 99 the switched to the distributerless version and they had some head issues. I'm not aware of any issues before 98/99 with the 4.0's. Will cc the xj list and share. I had to replace a 4.0 in a 2000 wj, #2 piston had a big opening. I think kevin on the fsj list has dealt with the head issue on a 99. I'd stick to the 93-98 era. Earlier than 92 you have issues with the early ho's. 99 and later, heads. My daughter has a 97, she's had it for over 5 years and I think I've replaced one hose on it. :). She's getting 15 to 16 I think in town. But she drives like her father. :) John - ------Original Message------ From: Ernesto Silva Sender: owner-fsj@digest.net To: full size jeep list ReplyTo: Ernesto Silva Subject: fsj: mpg question Sent: Jan 3, 2013 05:00 Hi guys, a friend of mine is watching jeeps from 1995 to 2000. I don't know the exact model but I just need an approximation of the fuel consumption. Here is a sample of what he is looking for: http://camioneta.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-405509117-jeep-cherokee-sport-full-impecable-_JM Ernesto. ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 09:42:51 +0000 From: "john" Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: mpg question on 95-00 xj The zj's are bad news. But so are the kj's. Get a wj, but be careful of the 4.7. The ONLY reason I have a KJ is because of the CRD. If something happened to the kj like a tree falling on it or something, I'd put that engine in a wj. Do NOT get a gas kj. You will not be happy. My 05 kj crd is the limited with every option. My 02 jetta is better quality, better seats and better ride. My 83 J10 rides better than either of them with bad tires. :) Yep, my liberty has all the creature comforts of a shipping container. Oh, that's another thing, the cargo area on the kj is pathetic. It's in the realm of a wrangler. My jetta has more cargo area, but not quite as much height. John ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: Ed Kummel Sender: owner-xj@digest.net Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:14:36 To: xj@digest.net; Ernesto Silva; full size jeep list Reply-To: xj@digest.netSubject: Re: xj: Re: mpg question on 95-00 xj We have a 1996 GJC Limited and are looking to get rid of it..unfortunately, it is riddled with electrical gremlins that are impossible to track down. It started with the heated seats no longer working...then the rear windshield wiper that wipes 2 times then stops, then at night, all the dashboard lights flicker while driving down the road. Random alarms appear on the onboard display that don't actually point to any real problems. I'm replacing O2 sensors every year...luckily for me, it's the one after the cat. Then something was causing a fuse to blow that shut down the engine of the jeep. A fuse will kill the jeep. You are sitting at a traffic light and the engine dies. a $100 tow to the mechanic and they tell me it's a fuse. Doesn't make sense to me...took the jeep to my mechanic and they tracked down the bad wire and fixed it (I didn't bother asking because I was that frustrated). The Jeep has a sun roof...we don't use it because it will randomly choose if it want's to shut or not. Now, one of the back windows will not go back up. The engine and trans are fine...strong running and never a lick of problems...but because of the electrical troubles, we just can't trust the vehicle anymore. Mechanical problems I can handle. But electrical problems are not as cut and dry as diagnosing a bad water pump and replacing it. And at 12 mpg city mileage, well...we need to get something else. The wife is looking at a Liberty...I'm not too sure about that though...the Liberty doesn't strike me as a *REAL* Jeep...but it's not for me, it's for the wife...so ultimately, I don't have the final decision. Ed web/gadget guru B - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the publicb^Ys own money." B B B B B B B B B B B B B B -1835, French political thinker and writer, Alexis de Tocqueville ________________________________ From: john To: Ernesto Silva ; full size jeep list ; xj Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:23 AM Subject: xj: Re: mpg question on 95-00 xj The 4.0's with aw4 autos will get 15-17 in town and 18-20 mpg on the freeway. That's a good range to look at, although the body changed slightly in 97.B My research showed 95-97 as the best years for the 4.0, actually bought a 96 for one project. Late 98 or mid year 99 the switched to the distributerless version and they had some head issues. I'm not aware of any issues before 98/99 with the 4.0's.B Will cc the xj list and share. I had to replace a 4.0 in a 2000 wj, #2 piston had a big opening.B I think kevin on the fsj list has dealt with the head issue on a 99. I'd stick to the 93-98 era. Earlier than 92 you have issues with the early ho's. 99 and later, heads. My daughter has a 97, she's had it for over 5 years and I think I've replaced one hose on it. :). She's getting 15 to 16 I think in town. But she drives like her father. :) John - ------Original Message------ From: Ernesto Silva Sender: owner-fsj@digest.net To: full size jeep list ReplyTo: Ernesto Silva Subject: fsj: mpg question Sent: Jan 3, 2013 05:00 Hi guys, a friend of mine is watching jeeps from 1995 to 2000. I don't know the exact model but I just need an approximation of the fuel consumption. Here is a sample of what he is looking for: http://camioneta.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-405509117-jeep-cherokee-sport-full-i mpecable-_JM Ernesto. ########B john @ wagoneers.com ######## B B B "A thorough knowledge of the Bible B B B is worth more than a college education" B B B -B Theodore Roosevelt ########B two word summary:B TrustB JesusB ######## ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 06:44:44 -0500 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] RE: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... yup. i got mine from elliot. about $100, i think. that was a few years ago. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Blair To: john@wagoneers.com ; tom.e.potter@williams.com ; FSJ@digest.net Cc: fsj-list@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: [FSJ-List] RE: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... Elliot on IFSJA has Hydroboost kits for FSJs. > Subject: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > To: Tom.E.Potter@Williams.com; fsj@digest.net > CC: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > From: john@wagoneers.com > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:53:11 +0000 > > Was thinking more along the lines of new parts or a kit. Thought I heard about such. > > Had an 80 olds Diesel, the brakes were amazing in that car. Also doesn't the chevy astro van use it too? > > Thanx Tom, > John > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible > is worth more than a college education" > - Theodore Roosevelt > > ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Potter, Tom E" Tom.E.Potter@Williams.com> > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:11:03 > To: johnjohn@wagoneers.com>; full size jeep listfsj@digest.net> > Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.comFSJ-List@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > > The 80s Oldsmobile diesels had hydraboost. Mine seemed to work fine; I had no problems with it. > > Thomas E. Potter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj@digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj@digest.net] On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:33 PM > To: full size jeep list > Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > > 1) my son's '85 GW choked on a lifter in hole #5, camshaft snapped at #2. No worries, he's building a 4 bolt 350 (in his apartment!) for about 500hp to install... he wants to clean the engine compartment out... saw the big brake booster and master cylinder... > made some comment about manual brakes which I highly discouraged... and suggested a hydroboost setup... > > Pictures to follow... (I'm not active on the list of yahoos... in digest mode there... will share with the fsj list on digest.net later, > I'll let a yahoo post it... :) kind of cool shots of the broken lifter and flat cam lobes... engine had just under 200k... > > WHICH LEADS to TWO things: > 1) where can we get a complete hydraboost setup? > 2) does anyone want to buy the stock setup out of his '85 GW > - or any other engine type stuff (I've got the a/c setup for my '83 J10). > > > 2) my axle swap is complete on my '83 J10 long bed... swapped out the 2.72 gears for 3.31's... got the axles from Jim Blair... > turned out the original owner installed the rear brakes wrong... long shoe in the front... short in back... brakes did not work properly on my test... noticed a leaking wheel cylinder when I went to flip the shoes around... > so, taking it into les schwab tomorrow... all new shoes, cylinders and have the front end aligned... > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/J10-axle-swap-Dec-2012/ALL.html > (can't find the pictures of the rear axle now...) > > THIS ACTION SHOULD ALSO PREVENT SNOW IN THE SEATTLE AREA... you can thank me later... > > > 3) rewired under the hood of my '83 J10 this summer... I used most of the new harness from zach, but the new harness from zm jeeps had two complications, one it was for a '79 and two it required changing connectors on accessories like wiper motors, ignition modules and such - which means that if I ever replaced that stuff I'd have to mess around changing connectors... while the new connectors were superb, I opted NOT to do that change... And because the '79 and '83 are different on TWO OR THREE pins, and those pins happen to be high current pins... I ended up creating a hybrid harness using bits and pieces of both... I spent 8 hours going through schematics, pin by freaking pin... not fun... of course factory manuals don't go into a great deal of detail on things like ballast resistors and resistive wire for the alternator... > > bottom line, if you have a '79 or comparable that harness would be great, except for the new style connectors for the wiper/ignition/etc. The wire is of excellent quality and it's assembled nicely. Accurate lengths. > - if you have a different year like I did, then I'd suggest a different strategy... I spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH WIRING DIAGRAMS sorting things out... I can't find my pictures, still need to do the write up... I would NOT have been able to fix my truck without that wiring harness though... but my truck had been messed up bad by a PO who thought it was a Ford... > > IF YOU ARE FACED with just bad wires in a "good" wiring harness - replace each wire ONE at a time... my problem was the PO really loused up the wiring harness... snip-snip... I'm pretty sure who ever owned it before drove a FORD because the logic that went into > some of this stuff reminds me of my Ford vehicles... not saying the truck was abused, just confused. :) While I had to spend a lot > of time hacking up an expensive harness from a '79, it worked out ok... > > But, if you have a functional harness, replace ONE wire at a time... if it's confused... get a shop manual/wiring diagram and either figure out the current wiring diagram or depending on the year buy a new harness... you have two options... the high quality harness from zmjeeps or the painless wiring... both are expensive... the painless wiring is kind of an open ended thing... you have to make your own connectors, cut to length, etc.... when I was rewiring one Jeep that came with a painless kit... I looked at it, looked at the jeep... sold the kit and did my own wiring, and saved myself a lot of time and money... UNLESS THE KIT IS FOR THE SPECIFIC YEAR, MODEL and options AND you have an accurate wiring diagram I'd avoid any of the kits... you'd be better off getting a harness out of a wrecking yard and splitting it open and repairing it and using it... > > I still have to rewire under the dash/cab... it's a real mess... no kits... I'm on my own... been there done that... > > > 4) http://fotomeister.us/2012/09-Sep-29-J10-waterPump/ALL.html - you should be able to see the wiring updates... ;) > I thought my new water pump was leaking... turned out that the hose clamps needed to be retightened!!! I've been wrenching for 40 years... have never had a problem with clamps not being tight enough or having to retighten... talked to another mechanic this morning and he said he's found the same thing to be true, had to retighten hose clamps again... we're guessing it's the hoses themselves... different material... perhaps better? > > > 5) still trying to have curtis call or answer his phone so I can gather up all the bits and pieces of my '83 J10 stepside out Centralia... been apart since 2001... :( the sd33T is in the frame, bits and pieces painted but not reassembled... > if anyone is near Centralia, WA let me know, maybe you could stop by and say howdy for me and let Curtis know I want to pick up all my spare parts and pieces of the J10... it but I figure 12 years is long enough to wait... Not looking forward to reassembling something I didn't take apart... hoping he'll at least put the glass back in the cab so I can leave it in the driveway to work on it... Either way, I just reinstalled the hitch on my J10, getting the brakes fixed tomorrow... will wire up the trailer lights and fix the cab wiring so I can drive it down to retrieve superdawg... or just get help from a few friends with big Diesel trucks... might have to do a convoy... depending > on how many pieces superdawg is still in... :( This is the last set of pictures: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/SuperDawg/2011_August_7-frame-done-engine-in-bodypai nting/ALL.html > > happy new year... > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus > ---------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 4 Visit Your Group To post message: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Moderator: FSJ-List-owner@yahoogroups.com IFSJA Page: http://www.ifsja.org Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use . Send us Feedback . __,_._,___ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #4006 **************************