From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #8 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, August 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 008 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: administrivia: editorial on spam (no automotive or racing content) ticking/clicking sound Why my car wouldn't start Re: ticking/clicking sound Re: ticking/clicking sound Re: Why my car wouldn't start Re: Why my car wouldn't start Re: Why my car wouldn't start administrivia: spam editorial, addendum (no automotive or racing content) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 12:04:02 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: administrivia: editorial on spam (no automotive or racing content) over the past week, many of you may have noticed a flurry of activity on my part, as i've started going through and doing a lot of cleanup/fixup on the various mailinglists, and (finally) moved the bmw-digest to the new server. i'm also finding myself working hard on the spam problem. harder than i really should have to, hence this message. i'm getting very sick of this -- actually, i've been sick of it for a long time, and i know that many of you are as well. there is a bill in the US congress right now that will probably make matters worse rather than better. rather than go through a long diatribe, i direct you to a web page that i just put up on the digest.net web site, containing a press release of relevance. the URL is http://www.digest.net/cauce.html the bill currently in front of congress needs to have the spam-related measures removed or drastically altered before it gets passed; the press release contains detailed instructions on how to contact congress on the subject. this a non-partisan issue -- spam is a a major problem for both liberals and conservatives, not to mention centrist moderates like myself. one final note: congress has gotten caught up in the first amendment issues. i argue that these are not relevant. the first amendment does _not_ give anyone the right to convert someone elses resources to support their freedom of speech. conversion of others resources is simply theft. everytime a spammer bounces email off of one of these mailing lists they are taking advantage. it is estimated that the cost of spam probably adds several $ a month to the cost of everyone's $25/month unlimited access account. you're paying for it and i'm paying for it; "just delete it" isn't good enough. richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:57:04 -0700 From: "Meister, John" Subject: ticking/clicking sound I've noticed a ticking/clicking sound coming from the left hand side of the engine (driver's side). Is this the neighborhood that the vacuum pump lives? I suppose I could open the hood.... john john meister sr CAD sys admin, Intermec meister-at-intermec.com (425) 356.1663 http://www.intermec.com ( http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john john-at-virtual-cafe.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 00:14:43 GMT From: gmbeasley-at-mindspring.com (R Beasley) Subject: Why my car wouldn't start OK guys tell me if I'm right on this. Ever since I've had my '82 300D it has sometimes inexplicably refused to start. And when my husband tries it, it starts right up for him. It happened again today. I was late for an appointment at Georgetown Hospital (D.C.) to have a sigmoidoscopy (not my favorite activity but I wanted to get there on time because the dratted procedure takes 24 hours of prep beforehand liquid diet and all) and I didn't want to have to do it over. I have a car phone, but it was in the trunk, so I pulled over into a parking place to get the phone. Because my batteries won't hold a charge, I plugged it into the cigarette lighter and tried to start the car. Would not start. Well, after I got to my appointment 35 minutes late and a $7.50 cab ride later, and had the procedure, and paid $7 for the cab ride back to my car, and took the $15 parking ticket off my car (it was a one hour meter and I was gone for 2 hours), I tried it again and it started right up. So I plugged the car phone in again and canceled the AAA, and drove home. On the way home I had a thought. So when I got home, I turned the car off, unplugged the phone. And tried to turn the car on again. It turned on. Then I turned the car off. I plugged in the phone into the cigarette lighter. I tried again. Would not start - only a click. Unplugged the phone - started fine. So is this something everyone else but me knows? Or is it all just a coincidence? Rosalie -my cars:'82 300D Mercedes & '84 diesel Lynx other cars - '85 300 d Mercedes, '84 Escort diesel,=20 '94 Beacon electric (formerly '85 Escort diesel) '65 Galaxie conv., '71 Ford crewcab PU, 1932 PB Conv.Sedan '65 Valiant (for sale), and others not currently licensed.=20 MBCA member ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 17:34:08 -0700 From: Ruth Ann & Bill Subject: Re: ticking/clicking sound Eh why bother raising the hood. Here are some things you can check without opening the hood: 1. Hub caps: Are they on tightly? Have kids put rocks in them? Is there a stone or other foreign object caught in the treads of your tires? 2. Fauna: Is there a woodland creature living under your hood? Try coaxing it out with a piece of head cheese or braunschweiger. WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT RAISE THE HOOD! SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN!!!!! You never know... 4. Mental health: Is is possible that there is a loose nut behind the wheel? Does ANYONE ELSE hear the ticking? In many cases, having yourself professionally evaluated (and proper medication) can help. When used properly, prescribed medication can make you forget all about the ticking. 3. Is your radio functioning properly? Most car problems are caused by insufficient radio volume. A certain Mrs. W. had an injector misfiring on her Jetta. Solution? Put in a CD and turn up the volume. DO THIS CAREFULLY! If the ticking is still heard nine out of ten auto mechanics advise the installation of a better radio. Remember- when in doubt about the correct radio volume, consult a professional. Or clip and save this handy chart: (scaled 1-10, 10 is loudest) Volume Car Problem 2 Cans rolling around on car's floor 3 Children fighting in back seat 5 Adults fighting in front seat 7 Flat Tire 8 Annoying injector pump ticking, dieseling, valve clatter etc. 10 Blown head gasket (NOTE: You may have to sing along to completely drown out this noise!) 5. Hamsters: has their wheel been oiled recently? Did you use the proper grease to repack the hamster wheel bearings? NOTE: you may have to raise the hood to check this. 6. Real Answer: Does your injector pump receive it's oil separately (as mine does- I'm not sure when they changed the design to use the engine's oil) ? Is there a red or black cap on the unit marked Oel or Oil? If so, it may need Oil. Or Oel. Bill Wachsmuth 1962 190Dc Original Message:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've noticed a ticking/clicking sound coming from the left hand side of the engine (driver's side). Is this the neighborhood that the vacuum pump lives? I suppose I could open the hood.... john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:08:15 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: ticking/clicking sound At 05:34 PM 8/4/98 -0700, Ruth Ann & Bill wrote: >Eh why bother raising the hood. > >Here are some things you can check without opening the hood: my guess it's the loose nut behind the wheel... ;) john --------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/ Snohomish, Washington USA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------------------ jesus - don't leave life without him... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:18:18 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Why my car wouldn't start At 12:14 AM 8/5/98 GMT, R Beasley wrote: > >OK guys tell me if I'm right on this. I'd check your grounds. There are two possibilities here, one, the drain on the battery drops the voltage just enough to keep things from firing, or two, the RF generated by the cell phone is interfering with something. You have an 82, so I have a few questions: 1) the car cranks but doesn't start? 2) if it cranks, at the same speed? 3) do you know if your engine shutoff system uses an electrical solenoid or a vacuum control? (the electrical solenoids are used on several bosch pumps and most american diesels, it needs at least 9 volts to hold it open to allow fuel. 4) what kind of controller circuit does the system use for starting? Important info is question 1 & 2. I can figure the rest out with a schematic... later, john --------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/ Snohomish, Washington USA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------------------ '81 Mercedes 300D, '81 Jeep J10(SJ) Pickup, '88 Jeep Wagoneer(xj) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ jesus - don't leave life without him... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 01:34:59 GMT From: rafbeas-at-mindspring.com (R Beasley) Subject: Re: Why my car wouldn't start On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:18:18 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:14 AM 8/5/98 GMT, R Beasley wrote: >> >>OK guys tell me if I'm right on this. > >I'd check your grounds. There are two possibilities here, one, the >drain on the battery drops the voltage just enough to keep things from >firing, or two, the RF generated by the cell phone is interfering with >something. Cell phone is off. > >You have an 82, so I have a few questions: > >1) the car cranks but doesn't start? =20 Car doesn't even make a sound. Just clicks. Doesn't crank at all. >2) if it cranks, at the same speed? >3) do you know if your engine shutoff system uses an electrical > solenoid or a vacuum control? (the electrical solenoids > are used on several bosch pumps and most american diesels, > it needs at least 9 volts to hold it open to allow fuel. >4) what kind of controller circuit does the system use for starting? > >Important info is question 1 & 2. I can figure the rest out with >a schematic... That's good because I have no idea and my husband is already asleep. Rosalie -my cars:'82 300D Mercedes & '84 diesel Lynx other cars - '85 300 d Mercedes, '84 Escort diesel,=20 '94 Beacon electric (formerly '85 Escort diesel) '65 Galaxie conv., '71 Ford crewcab PU, 1932 PB Conv.Sedan '65 Valiant (for sale), and others not currently licensed.=20 MBCA member ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 23:20:32 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Why my car wouldn't start At 01:34 AM 8/5/98 GMT, R Beasley wrote: >On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:18:18 -0700, you wrote: >>At 12:14 AM 8/5/98 GMT, R Beasley wrote: >>1) the car cranks but doesn't start? >Car doesn't even make a sound. Just clicks. Doesn't crank at >all. Ok, then it's more than likely related to the ignition switch or related circuitry. Again, you need to check your chassis ground. The current draw from the phone charger is probably just enough to disrupt the ground path for the ignition switch circuits. My shop manual is out in Fritz, but it wouldn't tell me much anyway. I'm sure there is a relay involved that's not getting enough current flow. The easiest way of chasing this down is to do the following: 1) make sure the ground cable is secured to the body and the battery, and to the engine. Don't just look, actually loosen and twist and tighten and hit it with electrical contact cleaner, AMSOIL MP (metal protector), or any kind of cleaner/lubricater/solvent type of spray. 2) make sure that any ground under the dash are secure, actually turn them with a wrench or screwdriver to break up any galvanic corrosion. 3) spray an electrical contact cleaner or AMSOIL MP into the ignition switch and turn it a few times (recommend doing this with the ground cable, I know, you'll have to reprogram the radio, bummer, but it's easier than replacing the starter or the flywheel... :) 4) Examine all the wires and connections on the back of the ignition switch, if you can. Trace the wires from the switch and wiggle, move and reseat any connectors radiating out from it. Again, I use AMSOIL MP to squirt in connectors... (It got my windows working again... after spending 4 hours and $160 on parts inside the door, all it turned out to be was the switches on the console... arghhhh...) 5) Try the phone charger in a different vehicle to see if it affects it, there is also the possibility that the unit has a short in it. OR, never plug your phone in while trying to start... :) Good luck, keep us posted on what you find. What I've suggested will hurt nothing and actually prevent future problems. This is a good thing to do anytime to any vehicle. later, john --------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/ Snohomish, Washington USA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------------------ '81 Mercedes 300D, '81 Jeep J10(SJ) Pickup, '88 Jeep Wagoneer(xj) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ jesus - don't leave life without him... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 14:16:09 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: administrivia: spam editorial, addendum (no automotive or racing content) a followup to my comments 2 days ago, to clarify, supplement, and amplify... the bill currently before the US congress is worse than not doing anything at all; it provides spammers with some quasi-legitimacy and some legal tools. some spammers are already issuing threats about lawsuits and injunctions they plan if this bill passes. digest.net and krusty-motorsports are shoestring operations. it probably won't come to this, but be aware that i have always reserved the right to control spam on the lists run here, and have used the tools at my disposal whenever i could; this includes filter lists, lists of banned domains for incoming mail, and the realtime blackhole list. if i found myself the target of legal action that had the intention of forcing me to open up these lists to spam, i would simply respond by shutting the lists down altogether. i don't have the stomach it would take to run these lists for the benefit of spammers, and i don't have the resources for a legal fight. just something to think about when you're pondering whether to bother to write/phone/fax your congressman on this topic. as i said above, it probably wouldn't come to it, but i'm quite sure that the realtime blackhole list and paul vixie (who supervises the rbl) would be targets of spammer lawsuits, as they are some of the visible figures in the anti-spam movement. again, see http://www.digest.net/cauce.html for a press release from CAUCE on the subject of the current bill. i will shortly be signing "Digest.Net" up as a CAUCE member. richard ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #8 *******************************