From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #57 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, December 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 057 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Vibrations! RE: introductions Re: Vibrations! Re: Vibrations! Re: Vibrations! RE: Vibrations! Re: Vibrations! Re: Vibrations! greetz and question? Interior Parts Re: Interior Parts RE: greetz and question? RE: introductions Re: Interior Parts Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:43:07 -0500 From: Chris Klass Subject: Vibrations! I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. Well $3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, trans, engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I still think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but he may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so big. Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check to see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, I got the tools! Chris 82 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:10:27 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: introductions cool, exactly what we need, is everyone sharing there Benz experiences. FWIW, there is a 61 Mercedes Diesel for sale here in Clearview (Snohomish, Washington). It's up on top of this rack at Whiteside Towing and Scrap Metal. I forgot what they're asking for it, about $2100 or so if memory serves me correctly, has a 4speed. BTW, what is a Z3??? I'm too involved with old Jeeps and Mercedes to be up to date, sorry... :) john At 06:30 PM 12/20/98 -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: >I assume this suggests that we new subscribers should also identify >ourselves. If I'm being an idiot, just ignore this message. Sorry. > >I'm Alec, and depending on which software I'm using to check my mail, you >may see me as DieselFan. I live in the Austin, Texas area, and my wife and >I are on our third Benz. Our first was a wonderful 63 (possibly made in 61) >190c fin-tail sedan, running with only about two-thirds of its small >motor's recommended compression! We picked it up for under $2000 just >before we got married, and we adored that car. We later had a 1980 240D >which we affectionately referred to as Cream Puff, and now we're on a 1985 >300DT with a Glorious motor. > >I've been rather neglectful of late (a nicer way of saying I've been too >cheap with this car) on the 300, and it needs a few things, >So a lot of my input will relate to inexpensive repair questions. > >My wife has not let me regularly have the 97 Z3 1.9 we bought used over 6 >months ago, but it's probably just as well. That car is definitely enough >fun that I might get myself in trouble in it. > >Sorry. Done rambling now. Thanks for having me along. > >Alec > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [SMTP:john-at-virtual-cafe.com (nospam)] >Sent: Saturday, December 19, 1998 1:30 PM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: introductions > >We've had several new subscribers in the last few days, >we should probably go through some intro's again. > >I'm john, I've got an 81 300D, I'm up in the Pacific Northwest, > Snohomish, Washington. This is my fourth Benz, 3 of the > previous were Diesels. I'm also into SJ & XJ Jeeps. > >After moving the FSJ and XJ lists to digest.net I started the Diesel-Benz >list. Richard is the server owner and graciously provides us >the service and space for the archives. He's also a Diesel Benz owner. > >later, >john >---------------------------------------------- >john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... > ------------ > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html > Jesus - don't leave life without him... >---------------------------------------------------- > > - ---------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... ------------ http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html Jesus - don't leave life without him... - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:18:16 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Vibrations! motor mounts and tranny mounts might be a good starting place, also check the u-joints in the drive shaft and the constant velocity joints. does it do it sitting still? If so it may be the mounts, or an internal problem like a burnt valve or a bad plug or a bad injector. Does it vibrate with the engine turned off and rolling down the road? Test it with power, without power, accel/decel. What speeds? Tires ok? rims? john At 07:43 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. Well >$3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, trans, >engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I still >think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but he >may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so big. >Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? > >I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check to >see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, I >got the tools! > >Chris >82 300SD > > - ---------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... ------------ http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html Jesus - don't leave life without him... - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:01:03 -0500 From: Chris Klass Subject: Re: Vibrations! How do you check the motor and tranny mounts? john wrote: > motor mounts and tranny mounts might be a good starting place, also > check the u-joints in the drive shaft and the constant velocity joints. > > does it do it sitting still? If so it may be the mounts, or an internal > problem like a burnt valve or a bad plug or a bad injector. > > Does it vibrate with the engine turned off and rolling down the road? > > Test it with power, without power, accel/decel. > > What speeds? Tires ok? rims? > > john > > At 07:43 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: > >I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. Well > >$3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, trans, > >engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I still > >think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but he > >may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so big. > >Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? > > > >I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check to > >see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, I > >got the tools! > > > >Chris > >82 300SD > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... > ------------ > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html > Jesus - don't leave life without him... > ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:07:39 -0500 From: Chris Klass Subject: Re: Vibrations! Ok. This is what I have been able to observe so far (had the car only a week). At idle, warm, and not moving the car shakes enough to vibrate my legs and the hood independent of the front fenders. I seem to notice the vibration most when at speed on the hwy, 65mph. I have new quality tires that were high speed balanced. Also I just had the plug replaced, the pump timing set, and the valves adjusted. He said that I might need new injectors in the future but at this point he doesn't think so. Does that help narrow it down? Thanks for the help. john wrote: > motor mounts and tranny mounts might be a good starting place, also > check the u-joints in the drive shaft and the constant velocity joints. > > does it do it sitting still? If so it may be the mounts, or an internal > problem like a burnt valve or a bad plug or a bad injector. > > Does it vibrate with the engine turned off and rolling down the road? > > Test it with power, without power, accel/decel. > > What speeds? Tires ok? rims? > > john > > At 07:43 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: > >I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. Well > >$3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, trans, > >engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I still > >think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but he > >may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so big. > >Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? > > > >I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check to > >see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, I > >got the tools! > > > >Chris > >82 300SD > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... > ------------ > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html > Jesus - don't leave life without him... > ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:13:35 -0800 From: "Meister, John" Subject: RE: Vibrations! typically a visual inspection is all you need to do to identify the problem. If it's got lots of miles it will benefit to change them anyways. =20 On the MB Diesels there is also an engine "shock" mount that can wear out, it's a damper. I'd just replace all of them, the damper, the mounts, tranny mounts. It'll be less than $300 bucks or so for = everything, and even if you had a shop do it you're looking at less than 2 hrs = labor. If the tranny mount is soft and sagging it could induce a driveline vibration, or just be passing engine vibrations to the chassis. If the rubber is soft and oil covered it may be the problem. It makes = a big difference on the Jeeps. If you don't have a small floor jack or a bottle jack you may not want = to mess with it yourself. I think the Benz will be easier to fix than the = Jeeps I've had, except that you actually have to jack the Benz up, and what's = funny is there still isn't as much room under there... :) Both of my Jeeps are lifted, so if I run them up the car ramps I can easily turn over and almost sit = up under them... of course I'm a bit of a runt at 5'7"... :) The first = time I crawled under Fritz when he was on the car ramps I almost got wedged = under there... :) =20 Let me know what kind of prices they're quoting you on parts, I might = be able to save you some money if you're willing to wait on them. john =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D John.Meister-at-intermec.com Sr CAD System Administrator =20 Intermec Technologies Corporation Everett, Washington=20 (425) 356.1663 http://www.intermec.com http://www.wagoneers.com/ http://www.virtual-caf=E9.com/~john/ =20 john-at-virtual-cafe.com=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=20 - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Klass [mailto:chrisk-at-klassreport.com] Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 7:01 PM To: john Cc: MB Diesel Subject: Re: Vibrations! How do you check the motor and tranny mounts? john wrote: > motor mounts and tranny mounts might be a good starting place, also > check the u-joints in the drive shaft and the constant velocity = joints. > > does it do it sitting still? If so it may be the mounts, or an = internal > problem like a burnt valve or a bad plug or a bad injector. > > Does it vibrate with the engine turned off and rolling down the road? > > Test it with power, without power, accel/decel. > > What speeds? Tires ok? rims? > > john > > At 07:43 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: > >I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. = Well > >$3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, = trans, > >engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I = still > >think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but = he > >may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so = big. > >Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? > > > >I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check = to > >see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, = I > >got the tools! > > > >Chris > >82 300SD > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... > ------------ > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html > Jesus - don't leave life without him... > ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:04:27 -0500 From: "Christopher M. Klass" Subject: Re: Vibrations! So what should I be looking for when I look at the motor mounts and shock? Cracking, oil, excesive play? What would be excesive play? Chris Meister, John wrote: >=20 > typically a visual inspection is all you need to do to identify > the problem. If it's got lots of miles it will benefit to change > them anyways. >=20 > On the MB Diesels there is also an engine "shock" mount that can wear > out, it's a damper. I'd just replace all of them, the damper, the > mounts, tranny mounts. It'll be less than $300 bucks or so for everyth= ing, > and even if you had a shop do it you're looking at less than 2 hrs labo= r. >=20 > If the tranny mount is soft and sagging it could induce a driveline > vibration, > or just be passing engine vibrations to the chassis. >=20 > If the rubber is soft and oil covered it may be the problem. It makes = a big > difference on the Jeeps. >=20 > If you don't have a small floor jack or a bottle jack you may not want = to > mess > with it yourself. I think the Benz will be easier to fix than the Jeep= s > I've > had, except that you actually have to jack the Benz up, and what's funn= y is > there still isn't as much room under there... :) Both of my Jeeps are > lifted, > so if I run them up the car ramps I can easily turn over and almost sit= up > under them... of course I'm a bit of a runt at 5'7"... :) The first ti= me I > crawled under Fritz when he was on the car ramps I almost got wedged un= der > there... :) >=20 > Let me know what kind of prices they're quoting you on parts, I might b= e > able > to save you some money if you're willing to wait on them. >=20 > john >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > John.Meister-at-intermec.com Sr CAD System Administrator > Intermec Technologies Corporation Everett, Washington > (425) 356.1663 http://www.intermec.com > http://www.wagoneers.com/ http://www.virtual-caf=E9.com/~john/ > john-at-virtual-cafe.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Klass [mailto:chrisk-at-klassreport.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 7:01 PM > To: john > Cc: MB Diesel > Subject: Re: Vibrations! >=20 > How do you check the motor and tranny mounts? >=20 > john wrote: >=20 > > motor mounts and tranny mounts might be a good starting place, also > > check the u-joints in the drive shaft and the constant velocity joint= s. > > > > does it do it sitting still? If so it may be the mounts, or an inter= nal > > problem like a burnt valve or a bad plug or a bad injector. > > > > Does it vibrate with the engine turned off and rolling down the road? > > > > Test it with power, without power, accel/decel. > > > > What speeds? Tires ok? rims? > > > > john > > > > At 07:43 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: > > >I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. W= ell > > >$3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, tra= ns, > > >engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I stil= l > > >think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but = he > > >may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so bi= g. > > >Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? > > > > > >I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check= to > > >see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, = I > > >got the tools! > > > > > >Chris > > >82 300SD > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > > Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... > > ------------ > > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html > > Jesus - don't leave life without him... > > ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:20:48 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Vibrations! Ok, the vibration at idle gives it away. you're looking at about a $30 rear transmission mount, about a $55 engine shock (x 2???) and about a $15 motor mount The rear tranny mount could cause the vibration at 65 mph. replace those and I'd be willing to say you're problem will be solved. john At 09:30 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >Ok. This is what I have been able to observe so far (had the car only a >week). > >At idle, warm, and not moving the car shakes enough to vibrate my legs and >the hood independent of the front fenders. I seem to notice the vibration >most when at speed on the hwy, 65mph. I have new quality tires that were >high speed balanced. Also I just had the plug replaced, the pump timing >set, and the valves adjusted. He said that I might need new injectors in >the future but at this point he doesn't think so. > >Does that help narrow it down? > >Thanks for the help. > >john wrote: > >> motor mounts and tranny mounts might be a good starting place, also >> check the u-joints in the drive shaft and the constant velocity joints. >> >> does it do it sitting still? If so it may be the mounts, or an internal >> problem like a burnt valve or a bad plug or a bad injector. >> >> Does it vibrate with the engine turned off and rolling down the road? >> >> Test it with power, without power, accel/decel. >> >> What speeds? Tires ok? rims? >> >> john >> >> At 07:43 PM 12/20/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >> >I just bought an 82 300SD with 139k miles and NO service records. Well >> >$3300 later the car runs very well. I had the front end, brakes, trans, >> >engine, etc worked on. To much to list. My problems is that I still >> >think it vibrates too much. I trust my mech has done good work, but he >> >may have only done what he felt had to be done as the bill was so big. >> >Where should I be looking to min. the vibration? >> > >> >I am thinking the motor mounts and the trans mounts. How to I check to >> >see if they need replacing? Is it something I can to myself? Hey, I >> >got the tools! >> > >> >Chris >> >82 300SD >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------- >> john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... >> ------------ >> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html >> Jesus - don't leave life without him... >> ---------------------------------------------------- > ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 ============================================================= john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/ ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:26:22 -0800 From: Ruth Ann & Bill Subject: greetz and question? Hi. My name is Bill. (Sounds like an AA meeting) I have 4 Mercs and a Mustang. 3 mercedes are diesel. You don't see me post much because I usually just reply to the person who asks the question, but I try to be active in this group as I thought it was a good idea to start it. My latest car is not a diesel (!) but a 1967 MB 230S Universal, coachbuilt for Mercedes by IMA in Brussels- it is still up on the sellers page at: http://www.trail.com/~scottf/auto.html I just drove it a thousand miles from New Mexico to Anaheim, and of course it died in my driveway, like a good horse should. Tomorrow I diagnose the ignition. Who has the Oldest Diesel? Who has the diesel with the most miles? Bill - -- 62 190Dc "Beauty"-71 220D "Norton I"-72 220D "Otto Potts-1966 Mustang "Cheese" We don't have web pages, but our cars do! http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/190dc62.htm http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/220d-71.htm http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/220d-72.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 03:56:49 -0500 From: Chris Klass Subject: Interior Parts Anyone know how I can repair or replce the back deck (behind the rear seats) on my 82 300Sd? Mine is completly faded. - -- Chris Klass New Jersey 82 300SD - 139k miles 84 Volvo 245 - 85k miles 98 Monster 750 - Just plain Magic ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:54:02 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Interior Parts have you checked with the dealer? also IMPCO might have the parts, I'll look in the catalog later... john At 03:56 AM 12/21/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >Anyone know how I can repair or replce the back deck (behind the rear >seats) on my 82 300Sd? Mine is completly faded. > >-- >Chris Klass >New Jersey >82 300SD - 139k miles >84 Volvo 245 - 85k miles >98 Monster 750 - Just plain Magic > > > - ---------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... ------------ http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html Jesus - don't leave life without him... - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:19:34 -0800 From: "Meister, John" Subject: RE: greetz and question? perhaps you could convert your latest edition to a Diesel. :) Cool looking rig. You're inspiring me to rescue that 61 up the street... :) john ======================================================= john.meister-at-intermec.com sr CAD sys admin (425) 356.1663 http://www.intermec.com ( http://www.wagoneers.com/ john-at-wagoneers.com ) ======================================================= - -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Ann & Bill [mailto:cupkake-at-pacbell.net] Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 11:26 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: greetz and question? Hi. My name is Bill. (Sounds like an AA meeting) I have 4 Mercs and a Mustang. 3 mercedes are diesel. You don't see me post much because I usually just reply to the person who asks the question, but I try to be active in this group as I thought it was a good idea to start it. My latest car is not a diesel (!) but a 1967 MB 230S Universal, coachbuilt for Mercedes by IMA in Brussels- it is still up on the sellers page at: http://www.trail.com/~scottf/auto.html I just drove it a thousand miles from New Mexico to Anaheim, and of course it died in my driveway, like a good horse should. Tomorrow I diagnose the ignition. Who has the Oldest Diesel? Who has the diesel with the most miles? Bill - -- 62 190Dc "Beauty"-71 220D "Norton I"-72 220D "Otto Potts-1966 Mustang "Cheese" We don't have web pages, but our cars do! http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/190dc62.htm http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/220d-71.htm http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/220d-72.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:52:25 -0600 From: Alec Cordova Subject: RE: introductions John, The Z3 is the little BMW roadster. Cute, comfortable, and loads of fun, but not much on luggage space! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:02:57 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Interior Parts IMPCO 1.800.243.1220 http://www.performanceproducts.com (never bought anything from them, don't know anythign about them except that they have a nice catalog...) john At 12:30 PM 12/21/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >Got a number or URL for them? > >john wrote: > >> have you checked with the dealer? >> also IMPCO might have the parts, I'll look in the catalog later... >> john >> >> At 03:56 AM 12/21/98 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >> >Anyone know how I can repair or replce the back deck (behind the rear >> >seats) on my 82 300Sd? Mine is completly faded. >> > >> >-- >> >Chris Klass >> >New Jersey >> >82 300SD - 139k miles >> >84 Volvo 245 - 85k miles >> >98 Monster 750 - Just plain Magic >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------- >> john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... >> ------------ >> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html >> Jesus - don't leave life without him... >> ---------------------------------------------------- > > > - ---------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com Jeeps don't rust in Snohomish, WA, they mold... ------------ http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/saved.html Jesus - don't leave life without him... - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #57 ********************************