From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #68 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, January 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 068 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 8.5 seconds 0 to 60mph! Re: MPG page updated Re: Fuel leak RE: update MPG page ProLong Re: ProLong Re: ProLong Re: ProLong Re: ProLong RE: ProLong Re: ProLong Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 08:36:03 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 8.5 seconds 0 to 60mph! At 09:23 PM 1/2/99 -0800, Richard Welty wrote: >At 01:03 PM 12/31/98 -0800, john wrote: >>At 02:53 PM 10/31/98 -0600, Jason Zolghadr wrote: >>>At 12:15 AM 12/31/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>>8.5 seconds!! 27mpg in town and 30 something on the highway! >>>>I wish Jeep would put a Diesel in their rig, >>ah yes, the AM part of AMC. :) >>only problem is the hummer is too wide and a tad bit >>unrefined for my tastes... :) > >>after having several full size leather lined Jeeps and >>a few Mercedes autos I'm very spoiled. :) > >you wouldn't like my IHC Scout II, then. >richard I would love it, ONLY if it had the Turbo Diesel, otherwise it would make a great implement carrying device... I had a 63 Scout... :) john - ---------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus - don't leave life without him... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 08:38:54 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: MPG page updated done. john At 09:57 PM 1/2/99 -0800, Richard Welty wrote: >At 05:05 PM 1/1/99 -0800, you wrote: > >> MPG >> YR Model worst avg best miles State/Country first name body > 77 300D - 24 - ~190K New York richard 123 > > ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 ============================================================= john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/ ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 08:41:37 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Fuel leak At 08:08 AM 1/3/99 -0800, Ruth Ann & Bill wrote: >No problem on doubling the advice. I know I sound like a nut, but this is >the single least expensive thing you can do to improve how your Diesel >runs. I bought a $200 basket case. The owner had tried for a year to get it >to run after he had replaced the injectors. I stuck new fuel return line >on, and started it. >Also, if you do not replace the return line, it not only makes the car >more difficult to start, but you can break down at speed. You are >introducing air into the fuel system, which is at enormous pressure on >these care. > >I think, like most people, I dislike the Mercedes dealers, but they serve >their purpose when you need something quickly. >Bill Depends on the "attitude" of the dealer too... :) I will say that it's a lot easier getting quality parts for an 18 year old Mercedes than it is for an 18 year old Jeep. john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com 81 J10 / 81 300D / 88 wagoneer limited (xj) http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/john/Vehicle-History.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 13:42:49 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: update MPG page updated... :) john At 03:31 PM 1/3/99 -0500, Marty Smith wrote: >http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Diesel-Benz-MPG.html >Year 85 >MODEL 300TD >worst mpg ? >avg mpg 27 >best mpg ? >MILES 169K >State/Country MA/VT >First name Marty > BODY ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 ============================================================= john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/ ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:45:45 -0500 From: Chris Klass Subject: ProLong Ok, I admit it. I got sucked into their info-mercial. I didn't buy anything, but it did get me thinking. Has anyone ever tried it? - -- Chris Klass New Jersey 82 300SD - 139k miles 84 Volvo 245 - 85k miles 98 Monster 750 - Just plain Magic ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:07:40 PDT From: kc7nol-at-juno.com (Daniel A Jacobs) Subject: Re: ProLong Instead of buying very expensive oil treatments that give a false sense of security, how about spending the money in an even better way: More frequent oil changes! Instead of 3000-5000 miles, how about 2000-3000 miles, or earlier? Especially if it is an older diesel engine, and there is more soot and crap-ola getting into the oil that it's already-in-there additives can't handle as well as when the engine is newer. As a tractor trailer driver, I read the ads for oils that are made for heavy duty diesel engines, and the big deal isn't which one is more slippery-er, but wich one has a better additives package to handle combustion by-products that get past the rings into the oil. Drive safely! Dan kc7nol-at-juno.com On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:45:45 -0500 Chris Klass writes: >Ok, I admit it. I got sucked into their info-mercial. I didn't buy >anything, but it did get me thinking. Has anyone ever tried it? > >-- >Chris Klass >New Jersey >82 300SD - 139k miles >84 Volvo 245 - 85k miles >98 Monster 750 - Just plain Magic > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 20:49:48 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: ProLong At 10:45 PM 1/3/99 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >Ok, I admit it. I got sucked into their info-mercial. I didn't buy >anything, but it did get me thinking. Has anyone ever tried it? >Chris Klass >New Jersey rule #1 - don't use additives or treatments rule #2 - don't mess with a lubricant's chemistry, see rule #1 Additives, treatments and other chemicals can through off the balance of a lubricant. Some of these additives and treatments have actually been proven to cause harm to engines by clogging up oil galleries, causing deposits or removing lubricants from critical areas and increasing wear. Some of these products use Extreme Pressure additives that look great under certain kinds of tests but actually might increase the damage resulting from shear action on the rings. Other additives will actually break down under heat and cause deposits that could increase wear or just cause varnish and crud to build up. If you care about your engine, change the oil regularly and use good quality oil like Castrol or Kendall, and make sure you use the right weight. The use of 10w40 is not recommended in most Diesels because the viscosity index improver tends to break down on the rings, causing deposits and increasing cylinder wear. In fact, if you're gonna use dinosaur oil it's better to use a straight grade, less possibility of cylinder wear caused by viscosity index improver deposits on your rings. If you're really into protecting your engine against wear, use a good quality synthetic. I recommend AMSOIL 15w40 Marine Grade Synthetic Diesel Oil, or AMSOIL Synthetic 30W Diesel oil, I've been using it since 1983. It's got a pour point of something like -55 degrees, so even the straight 30 weight will work just about anywhere. :) AMSOIL Synthetic is especially good for Diesels because it is able to hold in suspension a lot of particulate matter, and if you use the AMSOIL filters (which we can't on at least on the 300D's) it'll filter stuff out that's larger than the oil molecules. Of course, we could use the Bypass filters on our rigs and filter stuff down to 1 micron. (standard filters are good for about 20 to 25 microns, and about 60% of the wear causing particles are in the 5 to 20 micron range. Another good thing about just about any synthetic is that they tend to be more stable chemically over time, temperature and pressure. This is because they start out with a good base stock, whereas petroleum based oil is a hodge-podge of stuff ranging from lighter fluid to asphalt. (fwiw, mobil one is a synthesized hydrocarbon, meaning they work from a standard petroleum base and chemically work over the molecules so they are the same size and consistency. however mobil one does not have many of the properties that a true synthetic will have, like stability under thermal stress.) A well designed synthetic will resist breakdown caused by acids, water and fuel dilution. (I can't remember if I shared what happened to my AMSOIL 15W40 oil when I had a bad injector on my Jeep Turbo Diesel, but the oil lab called me and told me I had a bad injector because my oil had gotten significantly thicker. It held it in suspension.) An additional benefit of specifically using AMSOIL is extended oil drains and the fact that they were the first to get API approval and have been at it the longest. Extended drain intervals in a Diesel is NOT as spectactular as a gas engine mind you. In fact, I use AMSOIL in my Diesels to help in starting, to reduce smoking and as insurance against forgetfulness on changing the oil. :) A gas engine will go 25,000 miles or one year with no problems. A Diesel engine under light duty is only good for 15,000 miles, and then it's recommended that you use Oil Analysis. I typically run my Diesels about 7,500 miles with AMSOIL, more by "neglect" than by design. :) On the other hand, I've gone over two years in my gas engine vehicle with no problems whatsoever. Just change the filters every 6 months or 12,000 miles. Oil Analysis is not a bad way of going with a quality Diesel like our Mercedes. It's quite possible that we could all safely use extended drains beyond the 15,000 miles if our systems are working properly. The sample kits cost between $10 and $15. A quart of the 15W40 Synthetic is around $7 or so. I've got info on my website if you're interested. http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL The main reason I became a dealer was because of the air filters! They are the best value in the industry! I believe the 300D takes a TS-89, around $25 or so... email me off list and I can figure it out... sorry to go so long, I could have gone longer... john - ---------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Jesus - don't leave life without him... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:29:17 -0800 From: "Romeo Shayne Pavlic'" Subject: Re: ProLong I agree with all but a couple of points. I don't care how good of oil and filter you use, it simply is not worth letting a car go 15,000-25,000 miles without changing the oil. Even if you change the filter every 6-12,000 miles it just is not worth it in the long run. I am not a professional oil analyzer, but am in a family of chemists and mechanics who both agree that regardless of the quality of the oil it simply breaks down in time. Problems may not be noticed at first but over several hundred thousand miles it will show. My 4.5 liter has 240,000 on it and I have used synthetic in it as long as I can remember. I change it every 4,000 and the car still goes like you would not believe. Anyway, these are just a few thoughts. Oh, BTW, I would NEVER use an AMSOIL air filter. I had one in a car I bought and the intake manifold was so gummed up from the oil in the filter it was amazing the car ran. Happy motoring. Shayne. - ---------- >From: john >To: Chris Klass >Cc: MB Diesel , Mercedes List >Subject: Re: ProLong >Date: Sun, Jan 3, 1999, 8:49 PM > >At 10:45 PM 1/3/99 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >>Ok, I admit it. I got sucked into their info-mercial. I didn't buy >>anything, but it did get me thinking. Has anyone ever tried it? >>Chris Klass >>New Jersey > >rule #1 - don't use additives or treatments >rule #2 - don't mess with a lubricant's chemistry, see rule #1 > >Additives, treatments and other chemicals can through off the >balance of a lubricant. Some of these additives and treatments >have actually been proven to cause harm to engines by clogging >up oil galleries, causing deposits or removing lubricants >from critical areas and increasing wear. Some of these products >use Extreme Pressure additives that look great under certain kinds >of tests but actually might increase the damage resulting from >shear action on the rings. Other additives will actually break >down under heat and cause deposits that could increase wear or just >cause varnish and crud to build up. > >If you care about your engine, change the oil regularly and use >good quality oil like Castrol or Kendall, and make sure you use >the right weight. The use of 10w40 is not recommended in most >Diesels because the viscosity index improver tends to break down >on the rings, causing deposits and increasing cylinder wear. In >fact, if you're gonna use dinosaur oil it's better to use a straight >grade, less possibility of cylinder wear caused by viscosity index improver >deposits on your rings. > >If you're really into protecting your engine against wear, use a >good quality synthetic. I recommend AMSOIL 15w40 Marine Grade Synthetic >Diesel Oil, or AMSOIL Synthetic 30W Diesel oil, I've been using it since >1983. >It's got a pour point of something like -55 degrees, so even the straight >30 weight will work just about anywhere. :) > >AMSOIL Synthetic is especially good for Diesels because it is able to hold >in suspension a lot of particulate matter, and if you use the AMSOIL filters >(which we can't on at least on the 300D's) it'll filter stuff out that's >larger than the oil molecules. Of course, we could use the Bypass filters >on our rigs and filter stuff down to 1 micron. (standard filters are good >for about 20 to 25 microns, and about 60% of the wear causing particles >are in the 5 to 20 micron range. > >Another good thing about just about any synthetic is that they tend to >be more stable chemically over time, temperature and pressure. This >is because they start out with a good base stock, whereas petroleum based >oil is a hodge-podge of stuff ranging from lighter fluid to asphalt. >(fwiw, mobil one is a synthesized hydrocarbon, meaning they work from >a standard petroleum base and chemically work over the molecules so they >are the same size and consistency. however mobil one does not have many >of the properties that a true synthetic will have, like stability under >thermal stress.) A well designed synthetic will resist breakdown >caused by acids, water and fuel dilution. (I can't remember if I shared >what happened to my AMSOIL 15W40 oil when I had a bad injector on my >Jeep Turbo Diesel, but the oil lab called me and told me I had a bad >injector because my oil had gotten significantly thicker. It held it >in suspension.) > >An additional benefit of specifically using AMSOIL is extended oil drains >and the fact that they were the first to get API approval and have been at >it the longest. Extended drain intervals in a Diesel is NOT as >spectactular as a gas engine mind you. In fact, I use AMSOIL in my Diesels >to help in starting, >to reduce smoking and as insurance against forgetfulness on changing the >oil. :) > >A gas engine will go 25,000 miles or one year with no problems. A Diesel >engine under light duty is only good for 15,000 miles, and then it's >recommended that you use Oil Analysis. I typically run my Diesels about >7,500 miles with AMSOIL, more by "neglect" than by design. :) On the other >hand, I've gone over two years in my gas engine vehicle with no problems >whatsoever. Just change the filters every 6 months or 12,000 miles. > >Oil Analysis is not a bad way of going with a quality Diesel like our >Mercedes. It's quite possible that we could all safely use extended drains >beyond the 15,000 miles if our systems are working properly. The sample >kits cost between $10 and $15. A quart of the 15W40 Synthetic is around >$7 or so. I've got info on my website if you're interested. > http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL >The main reason I became a dealer was because of the air filters! They are >the best value in the industry! I believe the 300D takes a TS-89, around >$25 or so... email me off list and I can figure it out... > >sorry to go so long, I could have gone longer... > >john >---------------------------------------------- >john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus - don't leave life without him... > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john >---------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:29:25 -0800 From: "Romeo Shayne Pavlic'" Subject: Re: ProLong This product is about 13% clorine. Clorine oxidizes metal. Don't use it. Shayne - ---------- >From: Chris Klass >To: MB Diesel , Mercedes List >Subject: ProLong >Date: Sun, Jan 3, 1999, 7:45 PM > >Ok, I admit it. I got sucked into their info-mercial. I didn't buy >anything, but it did get me thinking. Has anyone ever tried it? > >-- >Chris Klass >New Jersey >82 300SD - 139k miles >84 Volvo 245 - 85k miles >98 Monster 750 - Just plain Magic > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:57:23 -0800 From: "Meister, John" Subject: RE: ProLong Shayne, It sounds like the previous owner had over oiled the filter. Either that or the car had had a bad PCV valve or excessive blowby. I've also noticed deposits on some intake systems from an EGR valve that's run amuck. :) Don't know what kind of car it was, but the AMC 258 loves to blow oil through it's breather tube, regardless of what kind of filter it has. :) In all the rigs I've run AMSOIL filters on I've never noticed any oil deposits on the intake runners... my Olds Diesel had the filter on it from 68,000 miles until it's death at 230,000 miles... I wouldn't think of running any other kind of filter... john ======================================================= john.meister-at-intermec.com sr CAD sys admin (425) 356.1663 http://www.intermec.com ( http://www.wagoneers.com/ john-at-wagoneers.com ) ======================================================= - -----Original Message----- From: Romeo Shayne Pavlic' [mailto:bcpi-at-arias.net] Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1999 10:29 PM To: mercedes-at-lists.realtime.net; Chris Klass Cc: MB Diesel Subject: Re: ProLong I agree with all but a couple of points. I don't care how good of oil and filter you use, it simply is not worth letting a car go 15,000-25,000 miles without changing the oil. Even if you change the filter every 6-12,000 miles it just is not worth it in the long run. I am not a professional oil analyzer, but am in a family of chemists and mechanics who both agree that regardless of the quality of the oil it simply breaks down in time. Problems may not be noticed at first but over several hundred thousand miles it will show. My 4.5 liter has 240,000 on it and I have used synthetic in it as long as I can remember. I change it every 4,000 and the car still goes like you would not believe. Anyway, these are just a few thoughts. Oh, BTW, I would NEVER use an AMSOIL air filter. I had one in a car I bought and the intake manifold was so gummed up from the oil in the filter it was amazing the car ran. Happy motoring. Shayne. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 12:00:22 -0800 From: "Romeo Shayne Pavlic'" Subject: Re: ProLong Just my personal experiance. I still have the car and the PCV is fine with absolutely no blowby. Well, I guess to each his own. Shayne. - ---------- >From: "Meister, John" >To: "'Romeo Shayne Pavlic''" , mercedes-at-lists.realtime.net, Chris Klass >Cc: MB Diesel >Subject: RE: ProLong >Date: Mon, Jan 4, 1999, 7:57 AM > >Shayne, > >It sounds like the previous owner had over oiled the filter. > >Either that or the car had had a bad PCV valve or excessive >blowby. I've also noticed deposits on some intake systems >from an EGR valve that's run amuck. :) Don't know what kind >of car it was, but the AMC 258 loves to blow oil through it's >breather tube, regardless of what kind of filter it has. :) > >In all the rigs I've run AMSOIL filters on I've never noticed >any oil deposits on the intake runners... my Olds Diesel had >the filter on it from 68,000 miles until it's death at 230,000 miles... > >I wouldn't think of running any other kind of filter... > >john > >======================================================= > john.meister-at-intermec.com sr CAD sys admin > (425) 356.1663 http://www.intermec.com > ( http://www.wagoneers.com/ john-at-wagoneers.com ) >======================================================= > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Romeo Shayne Pavlic' [mailto:bcpi-at-arias.net] >Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1999 10:29 PM >To: mercedes-at-lists.realtime.net; Chris Klass >Cc: MB Diesel >Subject: Re: ProLong > > >I agree with all but a couple of points. I don't care how good of oil and >filter you use, it simply is not worth letting a car go 15,000-25,000 miles >without changing the oil. Even if you change the filter every 6-12,000 >miles it just is not worth it in the long run. I am not a professional oil >analyzer, but am in a family of chemists and mechanics who both agree that >regardless of the quality of the oil it simply breaks down in time. >Problems may not be noticed at first but over several hundred thousand miles >it will show. My 4.5 liter has 240,000 on it and I have used synthetic in >it as long as I can remember. I change it every 4,000 and the car still >goes like you would not believe. >Anyway, these are just a few thoughts. > >Oh, BTW, I would NEVER use an AMSOIL air filter. I had one in a car I >bought and the intake manifold was so gummed up from the oil in the filter >it was amazing the car ran. > >Happy motoring. > >Shayne. > ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #68 ********************************