From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #81 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 081 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: FW: CC AMP warranty Vacuum Pump low on 300D? Re: Vacuum Pump low on 300D? HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Dave's humility, was "Vacuum Pump low on 300D?" Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Clean Hands Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:44:11 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: FW: CC AMP warranty good info on the cruise controls... Maybe I should do that. I'm thinking about driving down to my Perl class in the bay area in March... $149 is a good price. john At 02:15 PM 1/21/99 -0500, David Masinick wrote: >George Murphy also sells them (the CC Amp) rebuilt for $149. He has an ad >in The Star magazine. Cheapest yet. I am only passing this on to you since >you mentioned the cruise problem. Mine's bad too, and I am going to replace >it sometime soon, so I have been price shopping. I'll quit now. > >Dave Masinick >Hopkinton, New Hampshire >'82 M-B 300D >'96 VW Passat Wagon > >-----Original Message----- >From: john-at-virtual-cafe.com [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 11:35 AM >To: David Masinick >Subject: Re: FW: CC AMP warranty > > >warranty? wazzzthat? :) > >john > >At 10:54 AM 1/21/99 -0500, David Masinick wrote: >>John, >>At least they respond quickly. >>Now do you want to save $20 and give up some warranty? >> >>Dave Masinick >>Hopkinton, New Hampshire >>'82 M-B 300D >>'96 VW Passat Wagon >> >>> recipient: benzbin-at-thebenzbin.com >>> next-url: http://www.thebenzbin.com/thanks.html >>> Subject: Web Page E-mail >>> name: David Masinick >>> email: dmasinick-at-csi.com >>> part1: Cruise Control Amp >>> part2: >>> part3: >>> comments: What is the warranty on your rebuilt units? >>> pref: remanufactured >>> Submit: Submit >>> >> >>hi >>1 year unlimited mileage manufacturer's warranty on new and remanufactured >>parts. >>90 day unlimited mileage warranty on used parts. >>Thank you for your interest and be sure to add us to your favorites. >>Please call 888-628-3247 to place an order or if you have any questions. >>The folks at The Benz Bin >>http://www.thebenzbin.com >> >> >> >> >----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john > http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >----------------------------------------------------- > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:16:30 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: Vacuum Pump low on 300D? Background: I was experiencing a change in the shifting of my transmission, so I got out my vacuum gage, and tracked down a leaky EGR switchover valve (64b). Using the test procedures in the factory manual for my year ('82), I was getting readings of 300 mbar at the EGR, while the manual called for 350-500 mbar. Then while testing the switchover valves, I got 400 mbar through the ports for the switchover valves, while the manual calls for 700-800. I have not moved on to the vacuum control valve test, because I do not have one of those test rings yet. Because I got low readings on the above tests, I then tested the vacuum generated by the pump (through the tap on the brake booster circuit, black orifice) and I got 560-570 mbar. I checked the brake pneumatics section of my manual, and it refers to a test that measures how long it takes the pump to achieve 500 mbar. So I thought that I might have enough vacuum from the pump according to that test. But the manual also refers to raising the speed above idle and quickly releasing throttle to achieve 700-800 mbar. This (700-800) does not happen. Questions: Am I tapping into the wrong place? Am I seeing enough vacuum at idle? If so, is the vacuum level for the test of the switchover valves listed in the manual a typo? Without finishing the subsequent tests, my interpretation of the preceding events is that: 1. I have low vacuum from the pump, or 2: there is an error in the manual, or 3. I am misunderstanding the tests. (it's always the third thing, right?) Any help you could give us would be, (pause) well, (pause) helpful. "Monty Python, The Holy Grail". Thanks, Dave Masinick Hopkinton, New Hampshire '82 M-B 300D '96 VW Passat Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:29:20 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Vacuum Pump low on 300D? When testing my vacuum system out I didn't have a tester, just a surgical gloved finger, and I felt that the vacuum level was low on my 81 as well... I also plugged up the line to the EGR valve. I also noticed that the vacuum lines on the top of the motor don't fit quite properly, and if I replace them with separate lines it shifts differently... everything is working quite well now, except part of the heater control that is bi-level, it whistles... :) vent only is fine. will have to "go in" again... :) john At 02:16 AM 1/22/99 -0500, David Masinick wrote: >Background: >I was experiencing a change in the shifting of my transmission, so I got out >my vacuum gage, and tracked down a leaky EGR switchover valve (64b). >Using the test procedures in the factory manual for my year ('82), I was >getting readings of 300 mbar at the EGR, while the manual called for 350-500 >mbar. Then while testing the switchover valves, I got 400 mbar through the >ports for the switchover valves, while the manual calls for 700-800. I have >not moved on to the vacuum control valve test, because I do not have one of >those test rings yet. >Because I got low readings on the above tests, I then tested the vacuum >generated by the pump (through the tap on the brake booster circuit, black >orifice) and I got 560-570 mbar. > >I checked the brake pneumatics section of my manual, and it refers to a test >that measures how long it takes the pump to achieve 500 mbar. So I thought >that I might have enough vacuum from the pump according to that test. But >the manual also refers to raising the speed above idle and quickly releasing >throttle to achieve 700-800 mbar. This (700-800) does not happen. > >Questions: >Am I tapping into the wrong place? Am I seeing enough vacuum at idle? If >so, is the vacuum level for the test of the switchover valves listed in the >manual a typo? > >Without finishing the subsequent tests, my interpretation of the preceding >events is that: 1. I have low vacuum from the pump, or >2: there is an error in the manual, or 3. I am misunderstanding the tests. >(it's always the third thing, right?) > >Any help you could give us would be, (pause) well, (pause) helpful. "Monty >Python, The Holy Grail". > >Thanks, > >Dave Masinick >Hopkinton, New Hampshire >'82 M-B 300D >'96 VW Passat Wagon > > > > ------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com - http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps and Diesel Benz' don't rust, they mold... ------------------------------------------------- http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ (81 300D) ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:42:28 -0600 (CST) From: "M. Mason" Subject: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Hi everyone... my benz is giving me fits. Here's the recent history: - - She wouldn't start on me after a cold night outside. Ended up getting a jump and limping it home. Replaced what turned out to be a bad glow plug. (On that subject, does the glowplug failure light on the 123s blink in more rapid succession when more than one (or two, or three) plug(s) is/are out?) - - the car unavoidably sat in the garage for almost a month, so it doesn't surprise me that the battery was down. put it on a 6amp/12v charger overnight... actually, for two nights. - - Okay, so new plug is in. at least one injector had been threatening to fail (smoking, banging, acting obnoxious), so i took four spares i had at my parents' house and turned them in for a swap at the dealer for four remanufactured injectors. no problem -- installed them on monday. charger is still on at this point. didn't start the car because the guts were still open -- fuel system wasn't tight yet. - - found another bad glowplug, on a different piston... unsure when it failed, but it tested bad (my glowplug test is disconnecting the glowplug power pack at the front right -- when facing car -- and running a wire lead from the hot side of the battery to the tip of each plug. if it sparks, the plug is good. does anyone know of a better/safer test?) - - she ran well for me earlier today - drove it to class and on a few local errands, probably a total of 1/2-hour actual engine-running time... enough for the alternator to do its thing, no? - - so at this point, four "new" injectors and three good plugs. replaced the fourth plug. All Bosch equipment, no Champion or Delco plugs. replaced inline and main fuel filters, in that order, and the car started, ran for a bit. tried to start it a few hours later (it had been in the garage), and though it did try to turn over, i couldn't get the fuel to light. the cranking, of course, grew slower the more i tried to start the car... noticeably slower. this suggests, to me, a battery or alternator problem. So here's the question (one of many)... did i overcharge the battery and thereby render it useless? further... - should i shell out the bucks for a new battery, since I can't nail down exactly how old this one is (but it had never given me trouble until this business a month ago with the glow plugs). it's acting like it can't hold a charge... - how can I check my alternator for trouble? (as much detail as possible on this part, please!) - does any of this sound like a fuel-related problem? another possiblility just hit me... the main filter i put in (the canister), though it had never been used, had been in my toolbox, unwrapped, for several months. can this adversely affect its performance, and by extension, my fuel system's performance? i need to make some very important appointments tomorrow, and will have to make other arrangements unless Robin gets her -at-#^! sorted out... :( Any help would be GREATLY appreciated... thanks... - Matt _____________________________ Matthew J. Mason mmason-at-blue.weeg.uiowa.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:47:07 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Matt, It's probably better to use an OHM Meter to test the glow plugs, on many systems they drop the voltage to the actual glow plug, connecting it directly could blow it. Maybe not on the benz. The battery could be the problem, it can be TESTED at any parts store, auto shop, gas station, etc. Same with the alternator. Not sure what parts chains are out there, you're fairly safe with a NAPA or CarQuest francshise, but be careful that they are at least somewhat aware of Mercedes so they don't blow something up on you. john At 02:42 AM 1/22/99 -0600, M. Mason wrote: > >Hi everyone... my benz is giving me fits. Here's the recent history: > >- She wouldn't start on me after a cold night outside. Ended up getting a >jump and limping it home. Replaced what turned out to be a bad glow plug. >(On that subject, does the glowplug failure light on the 123s blink in >more rapid succession when more than one (or two, or three) plug(s) is/are >out?) > >- the car unavoidably sat in the garage for almost a month, so it doesn't >surprise me that the battery was down. put it on a 6amp/12v charger >overnight... actually, for two nights. > >- Okay, so new plug is in. at least one injector had been threatening to >fail (smoking, banging, acting obnoxious), so i took four spares i had at >my parents' house and turned them in for a swap at the dealer for four >remanufactured injectors. no problem -- installed them on monday. >charger is still on at this point. didn't start the car because the guts >were still open -- fuel system wasn't tight yet. > >- found another bad glowplug, on a different piston... unsure when it >failed, but it tested bad (my glowplug test is disconnecting the glowplug >power pack at the front right -- when facing car -- and running a wire >lead from the hot side of the battery to the tip of each plug. if it >sparks, the plug is good. does anyone know of a better/safer test?) > >- she ran well for me earlier today - drove it to class and on a few local >errands, probably a total of 1/2-hour actual engine-running time... enough >for the alternator to do its thing, no? > >- so at this point, four "new" injectors and three good plugs. replaced >the fourth plug. All Bosch equipment, no Champion or Delco plugs. >replaced inline and main fuel filters, in that order, and the car started, >ran for a bit. tried to start it a few hours later (it had been in the >garage), and though it did try to turn over, i couldn't get the fuel to >light. the cranking, of course, grew slower the more i tried to start the >car... noticeably slower. this suggests, to me, a battery or alternator >problem. > >So here's the question (one of many)... did i overcharge the battery and >thereby render it useless? further... > > - should i shell out the bucks for a new battery, since I can't >nail down exactly how old this one is (but it had never given me trouble >until this business a month ago with the glow plugs). it's acting like it >can't hold a charge... > > - how can I check my alternator for trouble? (as much detail as >possible on this part, please!) > > - does any of this sound like a fuel-related problem? > >another possiblility just hit me... the main filter i put in (the >canister), though it had never been used, had been in my toolbox, >unwrapped, for several months. can this adversely affect its performance, >and by extension, my fuel system's performance? > >i need to make some very important appointments tomorrow, and will have to >make other arrangements unless Robin gets her -at-#^! sorted out... :( Any >help would be GREATLY appreciated... thanks... - Matt > >_____________________________ >Matthew J. Mason >mmason-at-blue.weeg.uiowa.edu > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:35:05 -0500 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! John wrote: >It's probably better to use an OHM Meter to test the glow plugs, >on many systems they drop the voltage to the actual glow plug, connecting >it directly could blow it. Maybe not on the benz. If Matt has the parallel glow plugs (i.e. the glow plugs are not tied together with rigid wires in between them at the head) then there's no problem hooking the plugs straight up to the battery like he's doing. The plugs are 12V. However, you DO NOT want to hook a glow plug from a series set straight to the battery. The plugs ARE NOT 12V.... A multimeter is almost useless here since the resistance of a glow plug is in the order of tenths of a ohm, which most ohm meters are not accurate enough to measure at such a low value. You'll only catch those glow plugs that are very marginal or wide open. On the battery issue... definitely have it tested. My experience is that I have to replace batteries about every 5 years in my Merecedes. I know it's time to replace it when I start having trouble starting in colder weather. The engine doesn't crank over as fast as it should and you'll have one hell of a time getting it to fire up. Once I replace the battery, all is fine. You can have the alternator tested, but my experience here is that the red battery-looking light on the dashboard will come on faint at engine idle when the alternator is not up to par, even if you lose one of the three phases in it. Another way to pinpoint the alternator... Get the car started and turn on the headlights and heater blower (on high)... This puts a significant load on the alternator (more so if the battery is a problem). Unhook the ground cable from the battery. Everything should remain bright with a little push of the accelerator pedal (I almost wrote gas pedal!!). If the alternator is not doing its job then everything will go dull, even with some engine RPM applied. ONE MORE LAST BUT VERY IMPORTANT POSSIBILITY... Your glow plug relay may be stuck on. If you keep on wrecking glow plugs this is most likely. Even though the glow light in the car may shut off, the relay can still be on. I've had two instances of this happening. The electronics in the glow module went bad and the relay was always on. One side effect of this is that the battery acts like it is bad. This is because the glow plugs pull enough alternator current that the battery never recovers while you are driving. Anyway, the solution in both cases was to eliminate the electronic relay control and to wire up a momentary switch right to the glow relay coil in the glow module. Now when I have to start the car, I give the switch a push for about 7-10 seconds before I crank the starter. Hope some of this helps, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:53:02 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: Dave's humility, was "Vacuum Pump low on 300D?" Stu wrote: Many of the brake booster hoses have metered orifices coming off which act as vacuum restrictors...You might check the tap you are using and make sure it does not have a built in restrictor Thanks Stu. Once again, I just outsmarted myself. The tap location was OK, I just had not converted mm of Hg (the readout on my gages) to mbar. (mbar = 1.33 X mm Hg) So, the vacuum pump is fine (whew), and the switchover valves are still leaking. Regards, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:55:38 -0600 (CST) From: "M. Mason" Subject: Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! Thanks Jeff, John and all for the help... Jeff, tell me if this would decrease the possibility of the glow module problem: I've got a test light that my dad made up, which is grounded on the engine and clipped to the tip of one of the plugs. When the glow relay is plugged in and the key is turned to the glow position, the test light comes on. i assume this is indicating that at any time that the light is NOT lit, that the glow module is not stuck in an "on" position (drawing power from the batt). is this true? (btw, it consists of a bulb housed in an old 35mm film cannister. quite sneaky.) anyway, somehow i got her started this morning and made it to my appointments... out of sheer frustration, i unscrewed and pumped the little primer pump next to the inline fuel filter, got in, floored it and it lit right up. i have yet to try to start her again since. any thoughts? _____________________________ Matthew J. Mason mmason-at-blue.weeg.uiowa.edu "Life is crazy... like yellow fishes in the street." - John Mellencamp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:56:37 -0600 (CST) From: "M. Mason" Subject: Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! forgot to mention that the test light DOES go out when the engine is running, and only stays on long enough for the plugs to do their job and light the fuel. _____________________________ Matthew J. Mason mmason-at-blue.weeg.uiowa.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:51:03 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: HELP! severe troubles and time pressure! one of the glow plug tests I've before is to have the glow plug out where you can see it, but connected normally (grounded of course) and see if it glows... this was in a diesel shop that I saw this test. john At 01:55 PM 1/22/99 -0600, M. Mason wrote: > > >Thanks Jeff, John and all for the help... Jeff, tell me if this would >decrease the possibility of the glow module problem: I've got a test light >that my dad made up, which is grounded on the engine and clipped to the >tip of one of the plugs. When the glow relay is plugged in and the key is >turned to the glow position, the test light comes on. i assume this is >indicating that at any time that the light is NOT lit, that the glow >module is not stuck in an "on" position (drawing power from the batt). is >this true? (btw, it consists of a bulb housed in an old 35mm film >cannister. quite sneaky.) > >anyway, somehow i got her started this morning and made it to my >appointments... out of sheer frustration, i unscrewed and pumped the >little primer pump next to the inline fuel filter, got in, floored it and >it lit right up. i have yet to try to start her again since. > >any thoughts? > >_____________________________ >Matthew J. Mason >mmason-at-blue.weeg.uiowa.edu > > "Life is crazy... like yellow fishes in the street." > > - John Mellencamp > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:49:47 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: Clean Hands Segue into a "hands clean after diesel oil change" discussion. I have not been able to find a routine that gets all of the diesel soot and grime off my hands after working on my car. I do the usual tricks of rubbing soap under my nails and applying hand lotion before I start to work. I have even tried surgical gloves, but I always end up taking them off for more "feel". Go-Jo with pumice is my usual hand cleaner. Anyone have sure-fire clean-up methods for diesel-hands? Thanks, Dave Masinick Hopkinton, New Hampshire '82 M-B 300D '96 VW Passat Wagon ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #81 ********************************