From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #84 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 084 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: progress... 0 to 60 of the Turbo? Re: clean Hands RE: 0 to 60 of the Turbo? Re: clean Hands Re: clean Hands Re: transmission woes RE: 0 to 60 of the Turbo? RE: transmission woes Re: transmission woes RE: transmission woes Re: transmission woes mail costs! 80 300CD Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:01:14 -0600 (CST) From: "M. Mason" Subject: progress... The troubles with my 240D are temporarily at bay... as a short term fix to get her back on the road until I can install a rebuilt glow plug relay box, I installed a "workaround"... - 2-position on-off pushbutton switch rated for 75 amps - about 6 feet each, 10-gauge copper wire, insulated, red & black I soldered the wire to the terminals on the switch and tightened the other ends around the two screws that hold the "fuse" (flat piece of metal with two indentations to fit under those screws). I removed that fuse and in effect created my own with the switch. It is only temporary, because I'm of course powerless if the glow relay decides not to supply any power at all, but at least I can control how long the plugs are hot (preventing them from staying on too long) by opening the circuit from inside the car. Does this seem viable? Does anyone see any potential pitfalls, or have any suggestions on how to improve the design? _____________________________ Matthew J. Mason mmason-at-blue.weeg.uiowa.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:41:01 -0800 From: john Subject: 0 to 60 of the Turbo? Hey, I saw in the manuals the 0 to 60 times of the 240D and the 300D... (26 sec and 20 sec) but what's the official time of the 300 Turbo Diesel, 80's vintage? john ------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com - http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps and Diesel Benz' don't rust, they mold... ------------------------------------------------- http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ (81 300D) ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:40:02 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: clean Hands have you tried using surgical gloves? I work on computer systems and have to work up close with my users... having grubby hands would create some social discomfort for sure... :) john At 03:39 PM 1/26/99 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:33:22 PDT, you wrote: > >>Segue into a "hands clean after diesel oil change" discussion. >>I have not been able to find a routine that gets all of the diesel soot and >>grime off my hands after working on my car. > >I have to keep my nails clean, because as a methodist minister, my >parishioners expect it; I hate it that people still judge on >appearance) I do most of the carpentry work around my two parish >churches as well as take care of routine maintainable on several of my >widowed parishioners autos. > >NAPA Auto Parts sells a proprietary product called "Magic Hands." My >hands clean up with no trouble when I use it according to the >instructions before any job including the greasiest work on my M.B. >The hand cleaner I prefer after jobs is a product called "Fresh >Orange" that can be found almost anywhere. > >Archie J. Cleckler O.S.L >Proud owner of Bufordena my '77 240 D > >"God saw everything that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. >And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day ... And He >rested on the seventh day from all the work that He had done. So God >blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from >all the work that he had done in creation." >Genesis 1:31 & 2:1 N.R.S.V. > ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE/Bible-1999.html ============================================================= john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/ ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:09:59 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: 0 to 60 of the Turbo? The sales literature for my '82 300D does not list the 0-62 time, but the factory repair manual does. Hold your hat, you non-turbo folks. 0 to 62 mph in 14 seconds (+/- 7% due to engine performance and tire tolerance deviations) Load 2 persons. Now that I have adjusted my turbo boost pressure, I might just go and see if I can beat that number ;-) Now I'm wondering if the Benz can beat the VW (VR6 Auto) in a 50-70 sprint. Dave Masinick - Hopkinton, New Hampshire - '82 M-B 300D (turbo) - '96 VW Passat Wagon - -----Original Message----- Hey, I saw in the manuals the 0 to 60 times of the 240D and the 300D... (26 sec and 20 sec) but what's the official time of the 300 Turbo Diesel, 80's vintage? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:21:26 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: clean Hands At 03:39 PM 1/26/99 GMT, Archie Cleckler wrote: >Archie J. Cleckler O.S.L O.S.L. ? curious. :) >Proud owner of Bufordena my '77 240 D Archie, this name sounds intriguing... what, or how, did it come about? :) BTW, what kind of mileage does Bufordena get? :) manual or auto? I'll add a line to the mileage chart... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Diesel-Benz-MPG.html I've got a chaplain friend from the army pastoring a church out in western pennsylvania, grace brethren I believe... you near him? I'm out here in Western Washington... where jeeps and old diesel benz don't rust, they mold... :) later, john ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE/Bible-1999.html ============================================================= john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/ ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:42:14 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: clean Hands At 10:38 AM 1/27/99 EST, NGreen9286-at-aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 99-01-27 00:39:23 EST, you write: >i wear my grubby hands like a badge!! :) besides, i dont like the feel of >the gloves and its more fun gettin dirty!!! >nick >>81 240D 290000 mi (Briegh) >58 220S (Anne-Elise) ya know, there are times when you really can get into the grubby mode... once I cross that threshold the gloves come off and I'm lathered in grease... head to toe... like when I do a lift kit on a jeep, or an engine swap or some other really physically intense grubby job... :) Until I hit that trigger point though I try to keep the gloves on. :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:56:38 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: transmission woes At 01:39 PM 1/27/99 -0500, ANDREW FEKETE wrote: > > John, > > The trans on "Olga" (olga is a 1983 300td) started to slip yesterday. > What I mean by slipping is that it would only slip when you just put > it into drive. Once the car is rolling everything is fine. Reverse is > fine. This just started and there were no previous indications of > problems. Last night I looked at he maintenance records and found that > the "shift modulator" (I presume it is some sort of vacuum assist) was > replaced at 122,000 miles and the linkage was supposedly adjusted at > the same time. Tran fluid is a tad overfilled but no other signs of > problems. > Any and all info would be greatly appreciated. > > thanks in advance, > Andrew > Fritz has this little slip action in 3rd gear. However it varies with the vacuum connection situation. I believe it is caused by one of the little vacuum lines on top of the motor. I need to replumb it. For a test you could try to plug the vacuum line to the tranny and see if it changes it. The transmission will act like a manual when you do this, or at least mine did. Be careful, I would suspect this isn't good for the internal clutches and such. Don't run it very long like this. Automatic transmissions are both simple and complex... and the mercedes tranny is different than the ones I've played around with before... You may be lucky and only have a vacuum line or vacuum modulater problem. I've found Fritz (81 300d) to be particulary susceptible to variations based on vacuum... hope it's not expensive. I got a quote for $2,600 for a rebuild on Fritz's... if mine failed I'd go down to one of the three or four wrecking yards in the Seattle area and buy the driveline out of a 300 Turbo Diesel and swap it in. I'd expect to pay $1,500 to $2,000 for a complete setup, running... Only the trans, probably in the $600 range. Swappin' trannies isn't hard, suggest renting a tranny jack, will save you lots of time. The drawback to doing it with the proper tools is you won't have stories of laying on your back under your car holding the tranny on your chest and using your legs to position it. :) How do I know this? (grin) john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com 81 mercedes benz 300D (123) / 88 jeep wagoneer limited (xj) http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/john/Vehicle-History.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:47:53 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: 0 to 60 of the Turbo? awesome. Old Blue, my former FSJ, an 81 jeep Wagoneer with the AMC 360 V-8 barely did that kind of time!!!! That's a full six seconds faster than the 300D!!! Sounds like the next engine for Fritz will be the turbo 300d, but with only 132K on the clock I think I'll be waiting a while. :) I am giving some thought to putting a benz motor in an FSJ... the turbo sounds like the motor of choice. One of my FSJ buddies in Sweden showed me how someone stuffed a 240Turbo Diesel in a full size Cherokee... http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/Rigs/Swedish-FSJs/tommy-98-2-240td.jpg cool stuff. :) john At 07:09 AM 1/27/99 -0500, David Masinick wrote: >The sales literature for my '82 300D does not list the 0-62 time, but the >factory repair manual does. >Hold your hat, you non-turbo folks. > >0 to 62 mph in 14 seconds (+/- 7% due to engine performance and tire >tolerance deviations) Load 2 persons. > >Now that I have adjusted my turbo boost pressure, I might just go and see if >I can beat that number ;-) >Now I'm wondering if the Benz can beat the VW (VR6 Auto) in a 50-70 sprint. > >Dave Masinick - Hopkinton, New Hampshire - '82 M-B 300D (turbo) - '96 VW >Passat Wagon > > >-----Original Message----- >Hey, I saw in the manuals the 0 to 60 times >of the 240D and the 300D... (26 sec and 20 sec) >but what's the official time of the 300 Turbo Diesel, 80's vintage? > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/TECH-SHEETS/Air_Filter_1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/TECH-SHEETS/Air_Filter_2.jpg Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:11:42 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: transmission woes This aging M-B Transmission slipping thing is a popular topic. Andrew's problem is not one I have read about yet, and believe me, I've read a lot. The expensive answer is that your internals are wearing out. The cheaper things to do: 1. Make sure that you drain off the excess fluid. M-B transmissions are very sensitive to the proper fluid level. 2. Check out your vacuum system for leaky connections and components. If your transmission vacuum modulator is not getting vacuum at idle, the shift into drive is delayed and harsh. (I just tried it on mine to be sure.) The modulator is supposed to see 350-500 mbar (10.5-15 inches of Hg) vacuum at idle. 3. The EGR switchover valves on the top of the cam cover are notorious leakers at your mileage. If they leak, they will affect the shifting of the transmission because they are on the same circuit with the vacuum control valve. If you are a DIY with a vacuum gage and a factory manual, you can work through the less expensive fixes. I am going through this now, to solve a slip in my 3-4 shift. I have replaced the EGR switchover valves, and confirmed proper vacuum from the Vacuum Control Valve. My next step is to take it to my local independent M-B repair shop to have them check the operating pressure in the transmission. If that doesn't fix it, I'm up for an overhaul or a boneyard swap. FYI, there is a component called the B-2 piston, that fails catastrophically in these transmissions, and you may be showing the early signs of that problem. The failure mode for that is "no forward motion". The experts recommend replacing it before it goes. I plan to do this once I have determined what is causing my slip shift. I have learned quite a bit about these topics (enough to be dangerous ;-)) at dejanews.com by doing power searches in the newsgroup alt.auto.mercedes. You can go there and pick your favorite search terms. There is an also an archives at http://www.mercedes.pair.com/archives/ that has lots of good stuff. Pay attention to anything written by Stu Ritter. He is a guru. Dave Masinick - Hopkinton, New Hampshire - '82 M-B 300D - '96 VW Passat Wagon - -----Original Message----- At 01:39 PM 1/27/99 -0500, ANDREW FEKETE wrote: > > John, > > The trans on "Olga" (olga is a 1983 300td) started to slip yesterday. > What I mean by slipping is that it would only slip when you just put > it into drive. Once the car is rolling everything is fine. Reverse is > fine. This just started and there were no previous indications of > problems. Last night I looked at he maintenance records and found that > the "shift modulator" (I presume it is some sort of vacuum assist) was > replaced at 122,000 miles and the linkage was supposedly adjusted at > the same time. Tran fluid is a tad overfilled but no other signs of > problems. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:07:44 -0500 From: Chris Klass Subject: Re: transmission woes My 83 300SD is a funky shifter. From P when cold when I put it into R it takes 2-3 sec before anything happens. Putting it in D at anytime and there is a 1 sec delay. The 1-2 shift is sometimes harsh as is the 2-1 downshift if I am braking hard. Sometimes when I am accelerating moderately the 2-3 (or is it the 3-4?) shift seems to slip a little. It only happens every once in a while, and only if I am light on the gas. I have 140k miles, and I don't think it was cared for too well before I got it. Any ideas? Chris David Masinick wrote: > This aging M-B Transmission slipping thing is a popular topic. > Andrew's problem is not one I have read about yet, and believe me, I've read > a lot. > > The expensive answer is that your internals are wearing out. > The cheaper things to do: > 1. Make sure that you drain off the excess fluid. M-B transmissions are > very sensitive to the proper fluid level. > 2. Check out your vacuum system for leaky connections and components. If > your transmission vacuum modulator is not getting vacuum at idle, the shift > into drive is delayed and harsh. (I just tried it on mine to be sure.) The > modulator is supposed to see 350-500 mbar (10.5-15 inches of Hg) vacuum at > idle. > 3. The EGR switchover valves on the top of the cam cover are notorious > leakers at your mileage. If they leak, they will affect the shifting of the > transmission because they are on the same circuit with the vacuum control > valve. > > If you are a DIY with a vacuum gage and a factory manual, you can work > through the less expensive fixes. > > I am going through this now, to solve a slip in my 3-4 shift. I have > replaced the EGR switchover valves, and confirmed proper vacuum from the > Vacuum Control Valve. My next step is to take it to my local independent > M-B repair shop to have them check the operating pressure in the > transmission. If that doesn't fix it, I'm up for an overhaul or a boneyard > swap. > > FYI, there is a component called the B-2 piston, that fails catastrophically > in these transmissions, and you may be showing the early signs of that > problem. The failure mode for that is "no forward motion". The experts > recommend replacing it before it goes. I plan to do this once I have > determined what is causing my slip shift. > > I have learned quite a bit about these topics (enough to be dangerous ;-)) > at dejanews.com by doing power searches in the newsgroup alt.auto.mercedes. > You can go there and pick your favorite search terms. There is an also an > archives at http://www.mercedes.pair.com/archives/ that has lots of good > stuff. Pay attention to anything written by Stu Ritter. He is a guru. > > Dave Masinick - Hopkinton, New Hampshire - '82 M-B 300D - '96 VW Passat > Wagon > > -----Original Message----- > At 01:39 PM 1/27/99 -0500, ANDREW FEKETE wrote: > > > > John, > > > > The trans on "Olga" (olga is a 1983 300td) started to slip yesterday. > > What I mean by slipping is that it would only slip when you just put > > it into drive. Once the car is rolling everything is fine. Reverse is > > fine. This just started and there were no previous indications of > > problems. Last night I looked at he maintenance records and found that > > the "shift modulator" (I presume it is some sort of vacuum assist) was > > replaced at 122,000 miles and the linkage was supposedly adjusted at > > the same time. Tran fluid is a tad overfilled but no other signs of > > problems. - -- Chris Klass New Jersey 82 300 SD 84 Volvo 245 98 Monster 750 - Pure Heaven! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:45:57 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: transmission woes Chris, Everyone with shifting problems should go through the basics: fluid level, vacuum system tests, throttle linkage adjustment, Vacuum Contol Valve test, and transmission operating pressure test. I can't tell you specifically what to look for, but some of your symptoms say that your trans is tired. If you can do the basic tests yourself, you'll save a bunch when it's time to take your car to an M-B qualified shop for the big repairs. You would do well to check the archives I referred to in my previous post. The other night I read somewhere that a delay in the engagement of reverse is an indication of wear, but I can't remember what. It was a thread about transmissions, and it was a reply by Stu Ritter. I have also read about harsh downshifts, again something Stu wrote. Happy hunting. Dave Masinick - Hopkinton, New Hampshire - '82 M-B 300D - '96 VW Passat Wagon - -----Original Message----- My 83 300SD is a funky shifter. From P when cold when I put it into R it takes 2-3 sec before anything happens. Putting it in D at anytime and there is a 1 sec delay. The 1-2 shift is sometimes harsh as is the 2-1 downshift if I am braking hard. Sometimes when I am accelerating moderately the 2-3 (or is it the 3-4?) shift seems to slip a little. It only happens every once in a while, and only if I am light on the gas. I have 140k miles, and I don't think it was cared for too well before I got it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:15:47 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: transmission woes my 81 300d (fritz) has that occassional 3rd gear slip. When I replaced the vacuum lines on top with fresh hoses it seemed to stop... only problem is having big loops of line wasn't the right way of doing it... need to order the correctly formed little rubber hoses... It's amazing to me that a car as well engineered as the Benz chose to use vacuum on a Diesel engine to control so many things! Of course the electronics used in the cruise control make me happy they did use vacuum sometimes... :) john At 04:07 PM 1/27/99 -0500, Chris Klass wrote: >My 83 300SD is a funky shifter. From P when cold when I put it into R it takes >2-3 sec before anything happens. Putting it in D at anytime and there is a 1 >sec delay. The 1-2 shift is sometimes harsh as is the 2-1 downshift if I am >braking hard. Sometimes when I am accelerating moderately the 2-3 (or is it >the 3-4?) shift seems to slip a little. It only happens every once in a while, >and only if I am light on the gas. I have 140k miles, and I don't think it was >cared for too well before I got it. > >Any ideas? > >Chris > >David Masinick wrote: > >> This aging M-B Transmission slipping thing is a popular topic. >> Andrew's problem is not one I have read about yet, and believe me, I've read >> a lot. >> >> The expensive answer is that your internals are wearing out. >> The cheaper things to do: >> 1. Make sure that you drain off the excess fluid. M-B transmissions are >> very sensitive to the proper fluid level. >> 2. Check out your vacuum system for leaky connections and components. If >> your transmission vacuum modulator is not getting vacuum at idle, the shift >> into drive is delayed and harsh. (I just tried it on mine to be sure.) The >> modulator is supposed to see 350-500 mbar (10.5-15 inches of Hg) vacuum at >> idle. >> 3. The EGR switchover valves on the top of the cam cover are notorious >> leakers at your mileage. If they leak, they will affect the shifting of the >> transmission because they are on the same circuit with the vacuum control >> valve. >> >> If you are a DIY with a vacuum gage and a factory manual, you can work >> through the less expensive fixes. >> >> I am going through this now, to solve a slip in my 3-4 shift. I have >> replaced the EGR switchover valves, and confirmed proper vacuum from the >> Vacuum Control Valve. My next step is to take it to my local independent >> M-B repair shop to have them check the operating pressure in the >> transmission. If that doesn't fix it, I'm up for an overhaul or a boneyard >> swap. >> >> FYI, there is a component called the B-2 piston, that fails catastrophically >> in these transmissions, and you may be showing the early signs of that >> problem. The failure mode for that is "no forward motion". The experts >> recommend replacing it before it goes. I plan to do this once I have >> determined what is causing my slip shift. >> >> I have learned quite a bit about these topics (enough to be dangerous ;-)) >> at dejanews.com by doing power searches in the newsgroup alt.auto.mercedes. >> You can go there and pick your favorite search terms. There is an also an >> archives at http://www.mercedes.pair.com/archives/ that has lots of good >> stuff. Pay attention to anything written by Stu Ritter. He is a guru. >> >> Dave Masinick - Hopkinton, New Hampshire - '82 M-B 300D - '96 VW Passat >> Wagon >> >> -----Original Message----- >> At 01:39 PM 1/27/99 -0500, ANDREW FEKETE wrote: >> > >> > John, >> > >> > The trans on "Olga" (olga is a 1983 300td) started to slip yesterday. >> > What I mean by slipping is that it would only slip when you just put >> > it into drive. Once the car is rolling everything is fine. Reverse is >> > fine. This just started and there were no previous indications of >> > problems. Last night I looked at he maintenance records and found that >> > the "shift modulator" (I presume it is some sort of vacuum assist) was >> > replaced at 122,000 miles and the linkage was supposedly adjusted at >> > the same time. Tran fluid is a tad overfilled but no other signs of >> > problems. > > >-- >Chris Klass >New Jersey >82 300 SD >84 Volvo 245 >98 Monster 750 - Pure Heaven! > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:32:43 -0800 From: john Subject: mail costs! just shipped some parts to Australia and was pleasantly surprised at the cost! I asked the guy at the post office what was up with their rates, I mean their prices are better than UPS now for some items. He said that before they were restricted by congress to compete with the smaller companies, but not any more. :) A friend in Australia found the United States Post office site and emailed it to me, so I figured I'd see what it would cost to send 5 pounds to Holland... check it out! http://ircalc.usps.gov/default.asp First, how quickly* do you want it delivered to Netherlands? Service Speed Cost Dimensions Express Mail Int'l Svc - On Demand 2 - 3 Days $43.50 Max. length 36", max. length plus girth 79" Parcel Post - Air 4 - 7 Days $34.23 Max. length 42", max. length plus girth 79" Parcel Post - Surface 4 - 6 Weeks $16.68 Max. length 42", max. length plus girth 79" * This is an estimate based on the postal operations plan and projected delivery time in the destinating country. Your results may vary. Pretty cool. 50 pounds for South Africa would cost: First, how quickly* do you want it delivered to South Africa? Parcel Post - Air 4 - 7 Days $224.96 Max. length 42", max. length plus girth 79" Parcel Post - Surface 4 - 6 Weeks $101.16 Max. length 42", max. length plus girth 79" 50 pounds to Florida from Seattle would be: 7 Day(s) Parcel Post $34.49 2 Day(s) Priority Mail $64.55 Overnight to most areas Express Mail $85 This means you overseas Jeep type folks have a chance of getting parts mailed to you by friends or small businesses a lot cheaper than probably imagined... :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:09 -0800 From: john Subject: 80 300CD I found a white 300Cd for sale here in everett, it's on a used car lot, showing 157,000 miles, sunroof, at, etc. the guy is asking $3,200... it looks straight... What do you think? Should I check it out, I mean it's rarer for sure than my plain old 81 300D... :) john ------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com - http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps and Diesel Benz' don't rust, they mold... ------------------------------------------------- http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ (81 300D) ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #84 ********************************