From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #128 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, April 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 128 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D RE: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D Re: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D Re: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D Re: Compression Pressure 240D? Odometer stopped counting Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:13:31 -0400 From: Evan Subject: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D Please help me find this short... Following normal troubleshooting procedure for battery drain, I removed the negative cable from the battery and connected my meter between the (-) terminal of the battery and the cable. Metered 11 volts. That is the present battery voltage due to the constant drain. One by one, I pulled all fuses until the box was empty. Still 11 volts. I cannot visually trace the battery (+) cable past the starter solenoid. So what comes between the solenoid 'hot' post and the fusebox? Or could the solenoid be bad? What should I be looking for? TIA Evan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:28:35 -0400 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: RE: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D Evan, Before you go nuts, check these couple of things: 1 - Battery connections... check for corrosion at the terminals. 2 - The battery itself... Have it tested to see if it's just bad. Any battery shop can check the cold cranking amps (CCA) of the battery to tell if it's bad. 3 - Alternator... Its always hooked to the battery via the starter terminal. If one of the rectifier diodes went bad you may not get a red light on the dash, but the battery will not ever fully charge. Something else in the voltage regulator unit can also be bad causing the same result. 4 - Ground points.. The first is on the passenger side of the engine compartment, not too far from the battery. Remove the bolt, clean all surfaces, then put it back together. There is a second link going from one of the transmission or starter bolts back to the frame. Again, clean these connections. There also may be a ground wire connected to the alternator. You would want to check that connection as well. Those are the first thoughts that come to mind for a problem like this. Good luck! Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Evan > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:14 AM > To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D > > > Please help me find this short... > > Following normal troubleshooting procedure for battery drain, I > removed the > negative cable from the battery and connected my meter between the (-) > terminal of the battery and the cable. Metered 11 volts. That is the > present battery voltage due to the constant drain. > > One by one, I pulled all fuses until the box was empty. Still 11 volts. I > cannot visually trace the battery (+) cable past the starter solenoid. > > So what comes between the solenoid 'hot' post and the fusebox? Or > could the > solenoid be bad? What should I be looking for? > > TIA > Evan > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:56:02 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D Ok, how long does it take to drain the battery? Are there sparks when you connect the battery cables to the battery? (connect positive first, then ground.) Also you may want to connect the ground cable AWAY from the battery so any sparks don't set off the gases from the battery. ALSO, you don't trouble shoot a short by looking at voltages. You'll certainly see the full potential across the system regardless of fuses pulled. You need to disconnect the battery completely. Then use an OHM meter to determine resistance. With all the switches off you should see a very high or even infinite resistance. (If you measured the voltage you'd see the full amount across an open...) Measure the positive battery lead to the chassis ground... it should be open. If not then you start pulling fuses. If the solenoid were shorted it would do much more than drain the battery. It would create an interesting pyrotechnical display or run the starter. :) Without knowing how long or how serious this short is it's hard to say what's up.... let us know, john At 12:13 AM 4/22/99 -0400, Evan wrote: >Please help me find this short... > >Following normal troubleshooting procedure for battery drain, I removed the >negative cable from the battery and connected my meter between the (-) >terminal of the battery and the cable. Metered 11 volts. That is the >present battery voltage due to the constant drain. > >One by one, I pulled all fuses until the box was empty. Still 11 volts. I >cannot visually trace the battery (+) cable past the starter solenoid. > >So what comes between the solenoid 'hot' post and the fusebox? Or could the >solenoid be bad? What should I be looking for? > >TIA >Evan > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:03:19 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Elec. nightmare-'77 240D At 06:45 PM 4/22/99 -0400, Evan wrote: >At 01:56 PM 4/22/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Ok, how long does it take to drain the battery? >>unknown. The car hasn't run since the fuel gelled up last winter. Have >charged the battery twice since and found it flat at next attempt. 1-2 >weeks... could be a dead battery... I lost Fritz's battery last winter too... doesn't take much to kill a battery off... >> >>ALSO, you don't trouble shoot a short by looking at voltages. >>You'll certainly see the full potential across the system regardless >>of fuses pulled. > >Don't understand how this can be so. if ALL circuits are open, all circuits >are open. period. there would be no voltage flow thru the meter. Voltage is the potential. EMF. It has nothing to do with flow, that's current. If you measure across the battery you'll see the full potential, even though it's resistance is "infinity". Same thing happens when you look at an open circuit that is connected to the power source. You'll see the full potential across the leads. It's when current begins to flow across the circuit that it'll drop down based on the resistance. FWIW, to measure current flow you measure the voltage drop across a known resistance. Like a 1 ohm resistor... :) So you are right, there will be no CURRENT flow through the system, but you'll see the full voltage drop when you measure the voltage. :) The formula is simple: E=IR where E=volts, I= current and R=resistance. If R=inifinity (open) then I=0. E remains constant at 13.8v. If you're seeing only 11 volts across your 12v (13.8v actually) battery there's part of the problem already... :) >> >>You need to disconnect the battery completely. Then use an OHM meter >>to determine resistance. With all the switches off you should see a >>very high or even infinite resistance. (If you measured the voltage >>you'd see the full amount across an open...) > >HOW? what completes the circuit? That's the point. With the battery removed your ohm meter provides the "source" for the circuit. If there is a short in your electrical system it will find it. My guess is your battery is dead and nothing is wrong with your car. :) > >>>Measure the positive battery lead to the chassis ground... it should >>be open. If not then you start pulling fuses. >> >>If the solenoid were shorted it would do much more than drain the battery. >>It would create an interesting pyrotechnical display or run the starter. :) >> >>Without knowing how long or how serious this short is it's hard to say >>what's up.... > >A lot of people on the 'other' m-b list have suggested a bad diode bridge >in the regulator. I'm hoping it's the same regulator that is located in the >spare alternator I have from my Volvo diesel (heck, they're both Bosch. one >can hope) After checking with an ohm meter and finding a resistance when things are supposed to be open, then I'd agree. However it would have to be shorted to be a problem that drains your battery when sitting. The failure mode of solid state diodes is typically open. If they short they tend to create massive electrical problems and either explode themselves or take out other circuitry. In my experience with diodes is they fail open. If this is the case you'd see other problems in your electrical system, mainly noise in your stereo system and a reduction of output from your alternator at lower rpms. >>Think I'll try that next... all I need to do, they say, is disconnect the >field terminal... It might be much easier to just disconnect the lead from the alternator... again, your problem is probably your battery and not in your electrical system. I'd have the battery tested at any auto parts store first. You could also remove your alternator and take it down to be tested. It could have contributed to the failure of the battery. >Thanks for the ideas, tho... >>Evan >>>let us know, >>john >> >> >>At 12:13 AM 4/22/99 -0400, Evan wrote: >>>Please help me find this short... >>> >>>Following normal troubleshooting procedure for battery drain, I removed the >>>negative cable from the battery and connected my meter between the (-) >>>terminal of the battery and the cable. Metered 11 volts. That is the >>>present battery voltage due to the constant drain. >>> >>>One by one, I pulled all fuses until the box was empty. Still 11 volts. I >>>cannot visually trace the battery (+) cable past the starter solenoid. >>> >>>So what comes between the solenoid 'hot' post and the fusebox? Or could the >>>solenoid be bad? What should I be looking for? >>> >>>TIA >>>Evan >>> >>----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john >> http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>----------------------------------------------------- >> > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:38:16 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Compression Pressure 240D? section 00-115 Checking Compression pressure Testing data in bar positive (atu - the u has umlauts over it) for hot engine compression pressure normal 22-24 minimum compression pressure ca. 15 permissible difference btwn any two cylinders max. 3 - ------------- Rick, I haven't a clue what that means... :) I don't know what an atu is... Soon as we figure that out... :) For grins a 6.2L Diesel runs about 380 to 400 Psi warmed up... john At 04:23 PM 4/22/99 -0700, RICK ORR wrote: >Hello again, > My ? being: what is the compression range for a 240D. Are these the same >approximately for any MB Diesel (220/300)? > I have a comp. tester for gas eng. that goes to 300psi ... would this work? > Thanks, > rick > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:21:53 +0200 From: "Pieter" Subject: Odometer stopped counting Today the odometer in my 300TD (W123) stopped turning. Both the trip and the totals stopped, so I assume it is not in the counters themselves, but somewhere earlier in the line. Where should I start looking? Is it a DYI job? Banging the dash doesn't help :) TIA, Pieter '83 300TD (Hermann) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #128 *********************************