From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #131 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 131 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 190, 300 Re: Subject: 190, 300 sound shields? Re: sound shields? Banjo bolts sound shield follow-up 75-76 300D Re: sound shield follow-up Re: sound shield follow-up Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:38:36 -0500 From: "Jon Filina" Subject: Re: 190, 300 Daniel was asking: > Hi. I'm new to the list, and new to Mercedes-Benz autos. I'm considering > the purchase of a mid-80's diesel, probably a 190D or 300D. Anyone have any > advice on things to look out for, or particular years to avoid on either of > these models? I'll second Tony's recommendation. Stay away from the 190D's..at least through 1986. MB seems to have gotten a handle on the W201's starting about 1987. I test drove an '87 190D, 2.5 (?) turbodiesel. What a hot rod!!! The automatic transmission shifted hard (modulator valve adjustment) but the it was awfully hard to tell you were driving a diesel. If the car had been a manual, I would have bought it. My personal preference are the W123's-1977-1984 (I think) 240D's or 300D's. They are very simple cars with a lot of room under the hood to work with. Due to the age of these cars, there are several areas that may need work. My 1981 240D, in the last year, has needed: 1. Driver's window regulator (manual windows). ($70) 2. Heater blower motor ($215) 3. Right front caliper ($220-with labor) 4. Antenna motor ($238) 5. Injector bypass lines and end plug ($20) 6. Oil lines and cooler ($968...from the dealer, no advance warning....) 7. Clutch, clutch master and slave cylinder ($1100..from the dealer...) I still need to address the timing chain ($469 from the dealer, $300-350 from an independent shop), a new exhaust ($200-$300), some rust work under the right front fender and renew the A/C (MB uses the Delco R4 compressor - probably the worst one they made...) about $500-700. The point of all the above is that we are dealing with an older car and there will be some work needed. In my case, "Mathilde" (my 240D) is my daily driver doing about 100 miles a day. She had about 194,000 on the odometer when I bought her in February of '98 and has a little over 223,000 now. I'm a bit ticked about the oil lines, but the rest of the work was expected. I expect to keep this car a long time and view the expenses as a one time item (for the most part). >My only experience with diesels has been a '78 diesel Rabbit, > which was one of the most reliable, low-maintenance cars I've owned. > Reasons I'd like to find another diesel automobile are longevity, MPG, and > low cost of diesel fuel in New Jersey (for the moment). MB tops my list for > longevity which is why I'm considering one. Any thoughts anyone could share > would be appreciated. I started out with an '81 Rabbit diesel. After 250,000 miles I parked it and looked for an MB. In 1990, MB had pulled their diesels from the US market and I ended up in a '90 Jetta diesel. I can't say enough good things about them, but I can't cuss enough about working on them. Replacing glow plugs were frustrating, to say the least. Changing a water pump on an air conditioned model qualifies you to bypass St. Peter and go straight to heaven.... ;-) Comparing the VW's to MB is an apple to oranges thing.... We have been used to VW over-engineering everything. They can't hold a candle to MB! The MB diesels, such as my 240D, are much easier to work on. Glow plugs and water pumps appear to be relatively easy to replace. The VW is good for 300-350,000 miles. The MB, upwards of 500,000 miles. Why? The oil cooler...dual fuel filters...a timing CHAIN...an injection pump with separate tubes for each cylinder...7 quarts oil capacity vs. 5. It's just a better design! If you don't mind working on your car, one of the W123 models would be great. If you're tired of it, take a gander at the new TDI's VW is putting in the Bug and Jetta. The new MB's have too much junk on them...airbags, ABS, computer this and that. A new MB diesel will be an automatic and run over $40k. A loaded Jetta TDI is around $20k. For my tastes, the W123 models are a perfect fit. Simple cars...I can do some (I'm getting a bit lazy in my old age...)of the work (at parts prices comparable to VW) and let an independent shop do the rest...economical (I'm getting 32-34 mpg) and reliable. Just my .02 cents worth Jon "I like it simple" Filina '81 240D "Mathilde" 223,000 mi. A REAL economy car! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:11:35 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Subject: 190, 300 At 11:08 AM 4/25/99 +0000, Tony Wirtel wrote: >That being said, it is becomng hard to find good, clean 300's that aren't >rusty. My 300 is better than the majority, but even it has some cancer that >(or about 3-4 more years) I'd like to keep it for. At least Philly isn't TOO >bad of a cliamte. >>Good luck in your search- >Tony Wirtel Rust? What's that? I vaguely remember dealing with it about 20 years ago when I lived on the other side of the mountains... out there in the midwest and on the east coast... What's really funny is that vehicles will rust out in places like Florida where they don't salt the roads... I've got exposed bare metal on my Jeep from where I sorta got too close to a stump coming down a mountain by Mt. Rainer... been meaning to do something about it... for almost a year. :) There is something to be said for the weather here... :) So what if it rains 9 months of the year. My cars don't rust. :) So if y'all are serious about solid bodies you should consider a trip anywhere on the west coast. Clean ones down in California, just sun baked.... :) So, the 190's aren't to be considered as replacements for aging 300's then? Don't the 190's get like 40 mpg though??? john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:56:52 -0500 (CDT) From: matthew j mason Subject: sound shields? has anyone heard word (good, bad or indifferent) about a fiberglass sound shield which can be installed between the engine block and the firewall, under the hood of the 123s and 126s? Intended to further dampen sound from diesel engines, as heard from the cabin... Are they fragile? A fire hazard? Ineffective, or otherwise wasteful of money? As soon as I relocate their website, I'll follow up on this... found them through Lycos, a keyword search on "mercedes benz diesel." - -- mjm ______________________________________________ Matthew J. Mason matthew-mason-at-uiowa.edu Colleges of Education and Liberal Arts University of Iowa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:05:10 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: sound shields? shouldn't be a problem. I've used fiberglass sound proofing on a variety of rigs, including my Olds Diesels. It is NOT a fire hazard at all. I doubt you could get it to burn... it'd probably melt first. :) Let us know about the cost and such. Might be a worthwhile improvement. Also, if you do the hood and side fenders it'll help keep your engine warm in the winter for short stops. I'm looking at using a coating type material, kind of like a pickup bed liner to do the roof of a jeep project... kind of like Rhinoliner... anyone know of products like that? (I'm thinking of doing my sunroof insides with it too... it rattles sometimes... :( john At 08:56 PM 4/25/99 -0500, matthew j mason wrote: > > >has anyone heard word (good, bad or indifferent) about a fiberglass sound >shield which can be installed between the engine block and the firewall, >under the hood of the 123s and 126s? Intended to further dampen sound >from diesel engines, as heard from the cabin... > >Are they fragile? A fire hazard? Ineffective, or otherwise wasteful of >money? As soon as I relocate their website, I'll follow up on this... >found them through Lycos, a keyword search on "mercedes benz diesel." > >-- mjm > >______________________________________________ >Matthew J. Mason >matthew-mason-at-uiowa.edu >Colleges of Education and Liberal Arts >University of Iowa > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 05:42:59 -0400 From: "Christopher M. Klass" Subject: Banjo bolts Any ideas on what to clean them with? How about what to lube them with? Chris 82 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:39:22 -0500 (CDT) From: matthew j mason Subject: sound shield follow-up You can all find those fiberglass sound shields I referred to, at the following address: http://www.advweb.com/psb/ Thinking about adding one when we tackle the engine work on my 240 this summer... but their price seems a little high for the product... let me know what you all think! Thanks -- mjm ______________________________________________ Matthew J. Mason matthew-mason-at-uiowa.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:25:18 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: 75-76 300D Dear all, I am looking for a cheap driving project 300D from 1975 or 1976. I want a good engine and rough body/other mechanicals. I don't want to do an engine rebuild but like to fiddle with steering/suspension etc etc. I am in the NYC area but will collect the right car. I like Mercs and want one without any electronics etc etc so I can play with it. Thanks for any leads, SDB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:27:30 +0200 From: "Pieter" Subject: Re: sound shield follow-up Man, I can't believe you want _less_ sound of your MB diesel! My friends are always wondering why I never listen to the radio when I'm in my car :-) To me this reassuring rumble is one of the nicest (mechanical) sounds I can think of. I recently replaced the engine mounts on my 300TD and now I think it is almost too quiet. At 50 MPH the only thing to be heard is the sound of the tires on the road (hope to have that fixed when I replace them with Michelins MXV4's). So, my $0,02: Don't spent your precious dough on anything that makes your car less like a diesel! Pieter '83 300TD (Hermann) - would be very upset if I attached a sound shield... - -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: matthew j mason Aan: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Datum: maandag 26 april 1999 16:39 Onderwerp: sound shield follow-up > >You can all find those fiberglass sound shields I referred to, at the >following address: > > http://www.advweb.com/psb/ > >Thinking about adding one when we tackle the engine work on my 240 this >summer... but their price seems a little high for the product... let me >know what you all think! Thanks -- mjm > >______________________________________________ >Matthew J. Mason >matthew-mason-at-uiowa.edu > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:44:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: sound shield follow-up $71 plus shipping... total of $83.95 doesn't seem too bad... But it would be better if they provided some data on a clearer page. Like, before and after dB readings. Type of material used, etc. It appears to go around the engine and up the driver's side toward the radiator... I'd guess to block out the injection pump noise... Tell ya what, I've got a hood insulation pad sitting in my shop. I'll take a look at installing it as they have pictured and see what it does for sound. If it works, I'll custom cut and ship a soundproofing system for a LOT less... and still make money on it. :) Testing commences in a few hours... :) john On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, matthew j mason wrote: > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:39:22 -0500 (CDT) > From: matthew j mason > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: sound shield follow-up > > > You can all find those fiberglass sound shields I referred to, at the > following address: > > http://www.advweb.com/psb/ > > Thinking about adding one when we tackle the engine work on my 240 this > summer... but their price seems a little high for the product... let me > know what you all think! Thanks -- mjm > > ______________________________________________ > Matthew J. Mason > matthew-mason-at-uiowa.edu > > > ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #131 *********************************