From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #154 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, June 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 154 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: to wheel or to work... 240Turbo W123? RE: dust shields RE: dust shields mounts on an OM617.91 RE: flywheel & starter Re: 240Turbo W123? RE: dust shields fer grins... Newbie Questions Re: Newbie Questions Re: mounts on an OM617.91 Re: 240Turbo W123? Re: 240Turbo W123? foam tube Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:53:08 -0700 From: john Subject: to wheel or to work... with the onset of non-rainy weather here I'm actually getting stuff done outside... I'm running down to pick up a used Edelbrock carb for my 77 wagoneer on Wednesday and have a ton of stuff to do on it... Not to mention having to figure out why Fritz either puts out 39 degrees or 139 degrees... :) Ain't no middle ground... But thankfully, it's blowing cold air right now... :) (guess I have to troubleshoot that as well this weekend... arghhhh....) On the other hand, if the little wagoneer doesn't "fritz" out I'm wanting to wheel... man... I feel like so much time has been wasted this year with all the crappy weather... I'm really behind on projects, repairs, the book... computers... everything... The run up to Lake Isabelle sounds like fun... on the other hand I know if I go I'll shoot the whole day... oh man... (and what makes things even rougher is that on Father's Day they always have the Autocross thing... of course all I'd do there is tear up my MXV4's... :) At least I've decided to just get the 77 Wagoneer running as is rather than swap in the 4.0L I have laying around... which means I can sell the NP231 off as well to cover the cost of concrete and expanding my carport... It'll be nice to park on clean concrete... clean, level concrete... I can see it... Man, the weather is so nice, I don't care that it's almost 10pm... I think I'm gonna go out and work on something... :) ttyl, john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john 77 Wagoneer (SJ) - 81 MB 300D (123) - 88 wagoneer (xj) jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:40:08 +0200 From: Thorsten =?iso-8859-1?Q?Windh=FCs?= Subject: 240Turbo W123? Hi folks, at first I want to thank everybody for the advices on the fuel miser thing. Ok Ok, I'm not going to buy it, you convinced me that it does nothing but emptying my wallet. But here is what happened to me yesterday. I went to my local parts store (here in Germany) to ask for the price of a radiator for my 200D. I still don't believe what I have seen in this list: it showed a radiator for a 240 Turbo W123. Are therer cars I don't know of? Did I miss anything concerning the engines available for the W123? Bye, Thorsten Windhues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:09:39 -0400 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: RE: dust shields John, I have a set of them on my '82 240D w/ alloy rims. They really do work. They have slots with small fins in them to force air onto the discs from outside the car. There are also rotation marks on them so you don't put them on the wrong side of the car and screw up the air flow to the discs. The ones I have are Kleen Wheels. Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 12:44 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: dust shields > > > I just got through washing Fritz tonight (hot day... it made it > into the 80's!!!!) and noticed that the front rims were really > dirty... I've seen those disc dust shields advertised and was > wondering if they're worth it? > > anybody used 'em? do they affect the cooling of the brakes at all? > > john > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john > 77 Wagoneer (SJ) - 81 MB 300D (123) - 88 wagoneer (xj) > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:15:41 -0700 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: dust shields John, I used those dust shields for 1-1/2 years. They worked as claimed to keep the wheels clean, and I never saw any sign of excessive heat. I got 60,000 miles out of my front pads, so I don't hink that the wear was accelerated. I don't do any stop and go driving, though. The reason I threw them out (besides the pressure from critics) was that they ended up bending from swapping wheel to wheel during tire rotations. I thought they were too expensive for what they are, and did not want to buy them for all four wheels (you don't need them in back). If you put them on, you might need to have your wheels balanced. Regards, Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > I just got through washing Fritz tonight (hot day... it made it > into the 80's!!!!) and noticed that the front rims were really > dirty... I've seen those disc dust shields advertised and was > wondering if they're worth it? > > anybody used 'em? do they affect the cooling of the brakes at all? > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:17:06 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: mounts on an OM617.91 So, lets say you have an OM617.91 (from a 1975 300D) in your hand. Also let us suppose that you want to take the engine mounts off. RHS comes off no problem, but the distributer pump appears to inhibit the removal of the LHS. Is it supposed to come off without the removal of the pump? (It did with persuasion). Also, will a starter motor from an OM617.912 fit on the OM617.91 ? Also, does anybody have an oil cooler on their OM617.91* ? SDB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:19:13 -0400 From: "Jeff Domogala" Subject: RE: flywheel & starter Simon, I used to have crankshaft work done at this place when I was rebuilding MB diesels: Storm Crankshaft Grinding Corp 511 Homestead Ave, Mt Vernon, NY 10550-4619 Phone: (914)664-3563 I would give them a call. If they don't do it themselves they can probably make a recommendation. On the starter issue, I found that all of the MB 240D and 300D diesel engine starters are interchangable. However, the 4 cylinder starters are a little less powered. When I've replaced starters in 240D's, I would actually put 300D starters in for the extra kick for the New England cold during the winter. Hope this helps, Jeff - -------------------------- Jeff/Laura/Ashley Domogala Windham, New Hampshire mailto:domogala-at-bit-net.com http://www.bit-net.com/~domogala ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: 240Turbo W123? I know of a 240 Turbo installed into an FSJ in Sweden. :) not sure what body style it came out of... I have pictures up on my website of it though... :) john On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Thorsten [iso-8859-1] Windh=FCs wrote: #Hi folks, # #at first I want to thank everybody for the advices on the fuel miser thing= =2E #Ok Ok, I'm not going to buy it, you convinced me that it does nothing but #emptying my wallet. # #But here is what happened to me yesterday. I went to my local parts store #(here in Germany) to ask for the price of a radiator for my 200D. I still #don't believe what I have seen in this list: it showed a radiator for a 24= 0 #Turbo W123. Are therer cars I don't know of? Did I miss anything concernin= g #the engines available for the W123? # #Bye, # #Thorsten Windhues # # ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA=20 don't leave life without jesus, please... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john =20 http://wagoneers.com=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: dust shields On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Jeff Domogala wrote: #John, # #I have a set of them on my '82 240D w/ alloy rims. They really do work. #They have slots with small fins in them to force air onto the discs from #outside the car. There are also rotation marks on them so you don't put #them on the wrong side of the car and screw up the air flow to the discs. #The ones I have are Kleen Wheels. #Jeff I'm curious what they cost... to wax the wheels easily I'd need to remove them... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:19:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fer grins... I was down at the credit union today and noticed the car loan flyer... (grin).... so I asked what it would cost... estimating that a new E300 TurboDiesel, with a sales tax of 8.6% (or so) and vehicle excise on the tabs of about the same... I figured I might be able to get one for, oh, say $55k... 100% loan, 7.79% for 72 months (that's 6 years, right? :) the payment would ONLY be... only... $957.00 per month... rofl... dream on... guess I'll have to wait until the E300 is as old as Fritz... whoever has that smoke-silver E300 TD, moonroof, and so on..., take good care of my car please... :) See ya in about 18 years... In other news... COSTCO has RedHat Linux 5.2 for only $29.95! yeehaw! john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:12:33 -0700 From: Farnes_Quinn Subject: Newbie Questions Early one morning about a week ago, I had just parked my '87 Camry in the parking structure here at work next to a dirty white 240D. As I locked my car, I stood for a moment admiring the 240D's lines, and noticed that the two cars looked quite similar, although the 240 was covered with soot, and my Camry, with dust (WASH ME!). As I walked away, I mused to myself that it would be nice to have another Diesel (had a '79 Diesel Rabbit with the extra fuel tank years ago - nice engine in a cruddily-put-together body). "Yeah," says I to meself, "but Mercedes are expensive, and parts and service are probably sky-high, too." "Forget it and keep the Camry." "It's only got 150,000 miles; hardly broken in." Still hadn't had my morning caffeine fix, so while imbibing and waiting for a meeting, I did some surfing and came across this list. Over the next few days, I read all the archives and found a bunch of ads here in the southern California area for 300Ds, which is, at my present state of ignorance, what I think I'm interested in getting. Prices are really ridiculous, aren't they? Now I'm hooked. Trouble is, I'm still light on knowledge of the evolution of the 123-series. Saw a comment on one web site saying that after '85, the fuel injection pump is partially electronic. That's something that's good to know (insert Homer Simpson voice saying, "Mechanical - Good! Electronic - - BAAD!). Can anyone point me to any resources that explain, year-by-year, what changes were made to the design? Any opinions on which years/models are most desireable (and why) are also welcome. Clackety-clackety-clack! Quinn Farnes Irvine, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:36:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: Newbie Questions if someone will put together this list I'll put it on my web server like I did the mileage thing. :) I've owned a couple of the 115 body styles and now this 123. (Not sure what my 450SEL was...) The 123 body style seems to be pretty common, affordable and all that... Didn't they end that series in 85? It ran from 76 until 85, right? Based on my limited experiences I'd say find a 123 series. FWIW, the 79 rabbit (round headlights) was significantly higher quality than the 80 and up US made (rectangular headlights)... :) I've had several rabbit Diesels as well... As far as parts costs... I'd suspect the Benz parts from third party sources (and even the dealer in some cases) will be cheaper than a japanese sedan, esp. toyodas. Compare water pumps. List price is something like $21 on a 300D. What's a Toyota's dealer price? :) john On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Farnes_Quinn wrote: # #Now I'm hooked. Trouble is, I'm still light on knowledge of the evolution #of the 123-series. Saw a comment on one web site saying that after '85, the #fuel injection pump is partially electronic. That's something that's good #to know (insert Homer Simpson voice saying, "Mechanical - Good! Electronic #- BAAD!). Can anyone point me to any resources that explain, year-by-year, #what changes were made to the design? Any opinions on which years/models #are most desireable (and why) are also welcome. # #Clackety-clackety-clack! # #Quinn Farnes #Irvine, California # ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:13:19 +0200 From: "Pieter Noorlander" Subject: Re: mounts on an OM617.91 >Also, does anybody have an oil cooler on their OM617.91* ? > > SDB Mine has one (617.912). I think all W123 617 engines had them (?) Pieter '83 300TD (Hermann) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:20:19 +0200 From: "Pieter Noorlander" Subject: Re: 240Turbo W123? Thorsten, Are you sure you aren't mistaking it with the 240TD stationwagon? In that case T stands for Touring or maybe Transport, not for turbo. I've never heard of a (standard) 240 turbo engine for the W123. But hey, I don't know everything :) Pieter '83 300 Touring Diesel (Hermann) - no Turbo - -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Thorsten Windh=FCs Aan: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Datum: dinsdag 15 juni 1999 9:42 Onderwerp: 240Turbo W123? >Hi folks, > >at first I want to thank everybody for the advices on the fuel miser thi= ng. >Ok Ok, I'm not going to buy it, you convinced me that it does nothing bu= t >emptying my wallet. > >But here is what happened to me yesterday. I went to my local parts stor= e >(here in Germany) to ask for the price of a radiator for my 200D. I stil= l >don't believe what I have seen in this list: it showed a radiator for a = 240 >Turbo W123. Are therer cars I don't know of? Did I miss anything concern= ing >the engines available for the W123? > >Bye, > >Thorsten Windhues > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:38:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: 240Turbo W123? I can check with my friend in Sweden to find out what car the 240 Turbo Diesel installed into a Full Size Jeep... :) The Robert Nitzke book might show where the engine was used as he cites several european only models... john On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Pieter Noorlander wrote: #Thorsten, # #Are you sure you aren't mistaking it with the 240TD stationwagon? #In that case T stands for Touring or maybe Transport, not for turbo. #I've never heard of a (standard) 240 turbo engine for the W123. #But hey, I don't know everything :) # #Pieter #'83 300 Touring Diesel (Hermann) - no Turbo # # #-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- #Van: Thorsten Windh=FCs #Aan: diesel-benz-at-digest.net #Datum: dinsdag 15 juni 1999 9:42 #Onderwerp: 240Turbo W123? # # #>Hi folks, #> #>at first I want to thank everybody for the advices on the fuel miser thin= g. #>Ok Ok, I'm not going to buy it, you convinced me that it does nothing but #>emptying my wallet. #> #>But here is what happened to me yesterday. I went to my local parts store #>(here in Germany) to ask for the price of a radiator for my 200D. I still #>don't believe what I have seen in this list: it showed a radiator for a 2= 40 #>Turbo W123. Are therer cars I don't know of? Did I miss anything concerni= ng #>the engines available for the W123? #> #>Bye, #> #>Thorsten Windhues #> #> # # # # ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA=20 don't leave life without jesus, please... http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john =20 http://wagoneers.com=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:38:55 -0700 From: john Subject: foam tube pulled the glovebox out of Fritz (took longer to get the stuff out of the box than to get the box out of the car... :) two things I noticed: 1) the tube had a crimp in it 2) the foam section had fallen off, was sticky on the outside and crumbled with any movement... (not connected on either end best I could tell in the darkness...) that leaves me two options: 1) shorten the foam section/reroute the plastic tube part 2) replace the foam part / uncrimp the tube Either way, it's gonna wait until daylight. :) Going down to get the Edelbrock carb for my 77 Wagoneer tomorrow... will probably drive the little wagoneer since Fritz is sorta scattered in the driveway... :) (also noticed that some of the insulation had been rearranged... possibly the chocolate thiefin' rodent that visited a while back... :) Thanx guys, as usual getting some great help with my Benz here. :) I'm usually the guy with the answers when it comes to Jeeps... I don't usually go to or get help from the other two lists I started... :) later, john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/ http://www.virtual-cafe.com/~john/SYSADM/unix.html http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/LINUX/year-of-the-penguin.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #154 *********************************