From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #196 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, August 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 196 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Weird transmission tranny: addendum shocks and a squeak. Re: Weird transmission Re: need some German help... Re: shocks and a squeak. Re: Weird transmission Re: oil cooler flush Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:36:22 -0700 From: Justin Dobbs Subject: Weird transmission Hi, I have a 1987 300D turbo. The transmission seems to slip intermittently, often on the 2-3 shift. Sometimes, when the engine is warm and the car has been driven over a long distance, the slippage lessens. Usually only one gearchange will slip (engine REVS REALLY HIGH then *kick*s in in about 1/2 sec) and the rest of the upshifts will be very firm and definite. Sometimes they're all definite. Definitely rather harsh under anything but light acceleration, I might add. I figured out how to get the dipstick off so that I could check the fluid. I had run the car to the store (20 miles roundtrip) about two hours earlier. I parked the car on a level part of my driveway and let the engine idle for about 5 minutes. The temp gauge read about 80. I pulled the ATF dipstick (next to the firewall, right?) out and wiped it on a paper towel. only a little streak of fluid along the edge of the stick that I could see. I got light gray/black smudges. Stuck it back in, all the way, and pulled it back out. This time the streak of fluid was along the edge of the dipstick, almost up to the lower mark. I wiped it on the napkin and got a little more black junk, and the fluid (which was a light pink) soaked into the napkin as light tan splotches which spread out in the fibers. It smelled ... funky. Not oily like I thought it was supposed to smell. Just funky. Maybe a little burnt smelling? Needless to say, this bothers me a lot. I'm taking it to the mechanic Monday, maybe even tomorrow if I can. In the mean time, should I try to arrange for another car to use in the meantime? I've already driven the car 350 miles like this (since I bought it... and no, it didn't slip when I test drove it, that I could notice). I don't want to damage anything! Everything looked okay to the mechanic when I had it inspected. I had some work done at the shop afterwards and accidentally drove off with the handbrake partially engaged (couldn't tell it was on until I saw the light on the dash). Drove it like this for 3 miles before I released the brake. Could this have ruined my tranny fluid? Could this be a sign of some other major problem? Thanks guys! Justin Dobbs - -- Justin Dobbs (jrd-at-jrd.com) Why use Windows, since there is a door? (By fachat-at-galileo.rhein-neckar.de, Andre Fachat) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:48:40 -0700 From: Justin Dobbs Subject: tranny: addendum The car has 182k miles on it. - -- Justin Dobbs (jrd-at-jrd.com) Why use Windows, since there is a door? (By fachat-at-galileo.rhein-neckar.de, Andre Fachat) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:27:42 -0400 From: "Matthew J. Mason" Subject: shocks and a squeak. Hi.. ('80 24OD, new engine, but the suspension & most of the body have 193k on 'em...) First, a new symptom: I'm getting a squeak which becomes noticeable at about 10 mph and sounds like it's coming from the left front. Suspension under there looks okay with the naked eye (well, not really okay, but more on that in the second half of this message). I'm thinking it's a CV joint thing, but any CV joint trouble I've seen on other cars has been signaled with a THUD rather than a squeak, almost like a rock bouncing around inside the hubcap. Any ideas or things to check? Now, about the suspension... I know I need shocks, and have needed them for a while... So I went to a shop here that only does old Benz work to get a quote (Star Motors, Iowa City). For 4 Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks, parts & labor, roughly $120 per corner. Seems a bit high to me... are these numbers fair for what's involved? thanks in advance... -- mjm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: Weird transmission my 81 300D has been doing the same thing for a long time... mechanic says it's the clutch pack... I'm gonna drive it until pieces exit the oil pan or it don't go no more. :) john On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Justin Dobbs wrote: >-->Hi, >--> >-->I have a 1987 300D turbo. The transmission seems to slip intermittently, often >-->on the 2-3 shift. Sometimes, when the engine is warm and the car has been >-->driven over a long distance, the slippage lessens. Usually only one gearchange >-->will slip (engine REVS REALLY HIGH then *kick*s in in about 1/2 sec) and the >-->rest of the upshifts will be very firm and definite. Sometimes they're all >-->definite. Definitely rather harsh under anything but light acceleration, I >-->might add. >--> >-->I figured out how to get the dipstick off so that I could check the fluid. I >-->had run the car to the store (20 miles roundtrip) about two hours earlier. I >-->parked the car on a level part of my driveway and let the engine idle for about >-->5 minutes. The temp gauge read about 80. I pulled the ATF dipstick (next to >-->the firewall, right?) out and wiped it on a paper towel. only a little streak >-->of fluid along the edge of the stick that I could see. I got light gray/black >-->smudges. Stuck it back in, all the way, and pulled it back out. This time >-->the streak of fluid was along the edge of the dipstick, almost up to the lower >-->mark. I wiped it on the napkin and got a little more black junk, and the fluid >-->(which was a light pink) soaked into the napkin as light tan splotches which >-->spread out in the fibers. It smelled ... funky. Not oily like I thought it >-->was supposed to smell. Just funky. Maybe a little burnt smelling? >--> >-->Needless to say, this bothers me a lot. I'm taking it to the mechanic Monday, >-->maybe even tomorrow if I can. In the mean time, should I try to arrange for >-->another car to use in the meantime? I've already driven the car 350 miles like >-->this (since I bought it... and no, it didn't slip when I test drove it, that I >-->could notice). I don't want to damage anything! Everything looked okay to >-->the mechanic when I had it inspected. I had some work done at the shop >-->afterwards and accidentally drove off with the handbrake partially engaged >-->(couldn't tell it was on until I saw the light on the dash). Drove it like >-->this for 3 miles before I released the brake. Could this have ruined my tranny >-->fluid? >--> >-->Could this be a sign of some other major problem? >--> >-->Thanks guys! >-->Justin Dobbs >--> >--> >--> >-->-- >-->Justin Dobbs (jrd-at-jrd.com) >-->Why use Windows, since there is a door? >-->(By fachat-at-galileo.rhein-neckar.de, Andre Fachat) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:18:27 -0500 From: Jason Zolghadr Subject: Re: need some German help... At 02:34 PM 8/26/99 -0700, you wrote: >My boss is asking me for the German word for >woodworker... Holzarbeiter - -Jason Zolghadr "Call you out our name...but be forwarned, dear" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:24:24 -0500 From: "Jon Filina" Subject: Re: shocks and a squeak. Matthew wanted a smoother ride and asked: > First, a new symptom: I'm getting a squeak which becomes noticeable at > about 10 mph and sounds like it's coming from the left front. Suspension > under there looks okay with the naked eye (well, not really okay, but more > on that in the second half of this message). I'm thinking it's a CV joint I'd rule out a CV without a bit more info. Sounds more like a suspension sounds, though, based on what you've said so far. > Now, about the suspension... I know I need shocks, and have needed them for > a while... So I went to a shop here that only does old Benz work to get a > quote (Star Motors, Iowa City). For 4 Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks, parts & > labor, roughly $120 per corner. Seems a bit high to me... are these > numbers fair for what's involved? I just pulled out the IMPCO catalog. The prices they show are pretty close to the ones charged by the dealer. Front and rear Bilstein's are shown for about $300 for all four (the front are $130/pair and the rear are $173.) At an hour labor each, which sounds a bit high to me, at $50/hr. for an independent, that's about right. Take about $100 off of what you are being quoted, and you should be able to find someone to do it. Then again, my VW's were about $450, installed, for all four corners. You can go with a cheaper shock, but the Bilsteins are what MB used and how many years have they lasted??? Jon '81 240D 232,000 "Mathilde" and still running with the original Bilstein's.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:27:04 +0200 From: Thorsten Windhues Subject: Re: Weird transmission Hi Justin, I would try to do a tranny oil change, you never know what the first owner put into it. That might be all you have to do. If the oil is too thin, the engine has no way to give its power to the tranny and hence will rev up without accelerating the car. If there is too little oil in the tranny (and as you described the dip stick you don't have enough), this will probably cause the same. And don't bother about the hand brake. If it didn't smell burned when you released it and is still working properly, everything is all right. Maybe you should have a thorough look at the brake pads once you have to fit new brake discs. Bye, Thorsten Windhues At 15:36 26.08.99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have a 1987 300D turbo. The transmission seems to slip intermittently, often >on the 2-3 shift. Sometimes, when the engine is warm and the car has been >driven over a long distance, the slippage lessens. Usually only one gearchange >will slip (engine REVS REALLY HIGH then *kick*s in in about 1/2 sec) and the >rest of the upshifts will be very firm and definite. Sometimes they're all >definite. Definitely rather harsh under anything but light acceleration, I >might add. > >I figured out how to get the dipstick off so that I could check the fluid. I >had run the car to the store (20 miles roundtrip) about two hours earlier. I >parked the car on a level part of my driveway and let the engine idle for about >5 minutes. The temp gauge read about 80. I pulled the ATF dipstick (next to >the firewall, right?) out and wiped it on a paper towel. only a little streak >of fluid along the edge of the stick that I could see. I got light gray/black >smudges. Stuck it back in, all the way, and pulled it back out. This time >the streak of fluid was along the edge of the dipstick, almost up to the lower >mark. I wiped it on the napkin and got a little more black junk, and the fluid >(which was a light pink) soaked into the napkin as light tan splotches which >spread out in the fibers. It smelled ... funky. Not oily like I thought it >was supposed to smell. Just funky. Maybe a little burnt smelling? > >Needless to say, this bothers me a lot. I'm taking it to the mechanic Monday, >maybe even tomorrow if I can. In the mean time, should I try to arrange for >another car to use in the meantime? I've already driven the car 350 miles like >this (since I bought it... and no, it didn't slip when I test drove it, that I >could notice). I don't want to damage anything! Everything looked okay to >the mechanic when I had it inspected. I had some work done at the shop >afterwards and accidentally drove off with the handbrake partially engaged >(couldn't tell it was on until I saw the light on the dash). Drove it like >this for 3 miles before I released the brake. Could this have ruined my tranny >fluid? > >Could this be a sign of some other major problem? > >Thanks guys! >Justin Dobbs > > > >-- >Justin Dobbs (jrd-at-jrd.com) >Why use Windows, since there is a door? >(By fachat-at-galileo.rhein-neckar.de, Andre Fachat) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:31:10 PDT From: Daniel A Jacobs Subject: Re: oil cooler flush If your oil stays clean at all after an oil change in a diesel engine, you are one of the few for all the engines out there. Make sure you use an oil that is designed for diesel engines, there is more crud and unburned fuel in diesel engine oil than in a comparably used gasoline model. There are special additives in oil designed for diesel motors that likely aren't present in oil for gasoline engines. I use Chevron Delo 400 15-40 in my car. The previous owner used penzoil 10-40 for gasoline engines. Now my car smokes less, runs more quietly, and goes longer between oil changes. Do not worry about flushing the oil cooler, what little oil remains in there will not hurt anything when the oil is changed, since you sound like the type that changes oil often to worry about something like that. the only piece of advice left to give you is frequent oil changes (3K miles) is the best insurance to keeping the engine running for a long time. By the way, there was a message about x-40 weight oils causing garbage to collect in the crankcase of some unlucky motors due to modifiers used to make it 40 weight, and the resulting engine damage was very expensive. The trucking industry uses 15-40 oil almost exclusively in their heavy duty engines, and those engines are now able to run more than 1,000,000 before a tear down is necessary, and most tear downs at that mileage weren't quite necessary, but the bearings, etc., are replaced because the engine is torn down already, may as well do that, too. Sounds to me that oil wasn't being changed often enough or the wrong oil was used for the engine type or the work the engine was made to do. Dan kc7nol-at-juno.com On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:03:47 -0700 Farnes_Quinn writes: >My Diesel rabbit was like that, too. Oil was always BLACK. I even >filtered >some waste oil through a 0.2 micron laboratory filter just to see if I >could >clean the carbon out of it. The oil went right through, and while it >left >the filter black, indicating it had removed some particles that were >larger >than 0.2 microns in diameter, the filtrate was just as black as >before. I >agree with Chuck's statement. I've always been told not to worry >about the >color of lubricating oil in a Diesel. I imagine probably what's >happening >is that the small quantity of gas that blows by the rings and ends up >in the >oil doesn't have time to completely burn, so leaves carbon soot. Sort >of >the same thing when you tromp on the throttle. Too much fuel present >for >the limited quantity of oxygen to burn. Hence, smoke. > >In the FWIW (for what it's worth) department: During WWII (the Big >One), >when all U.S. submarines were powered by Diesels, they apparently >didn't >change the oil, they just filtered it and changed out the filters >regularly. > > >q. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chuck Lanter [SMTP:cll2-at-micron.net] >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 3:27 PM >> To: alex.abbott; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> Subject: Re: oil cooler flush >> >> >> >> > Hello all- >> > Im writing in behalf of my dad's dark blue '92 300D Turbo MB, >> > he's not too internet saavy, but I told him that this list >> might help >> > out. >> > >> > After oil change, oil gets dark real quick, can see it on the >> > dipstick. We looked and the only thing that doesn't get drained >> > is the leftover oil in the cooler in front of the drivers side >> front >> > wheel. Is there a way to purge the old oil? >> > >> > No cooler on my white '92 190E 2.6, so oil stays clean. >> > Any ideas welcome. >> > >> > thanks >> > Alex >> >> >> My understanding has always been that all diesels produce a >> significant amount of carbon ash during combustion naturally and >> that it quickly stains the oil black. It is not a problem and >> should be considered normal. Someone please correct me if that's >> not the case. >> > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #196 *********************************