From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #295 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 295 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks RE: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks RE: A/C Compressor Woes What'syour mpg ? RE: What'syour mpg ? RE: A/C Compressor Woes RE: A/C Compressor Woes RE: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks a bounced msg... junk science and R12 Re: Diesel Prices Re: Diesel Prices a friend's ebay offering Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 05:18:53 -0600 From: "Jon Filina" Subject: Re: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks Chris was trying to determine his options and wrote: > Hi all. I have an '85 300D (my first Mercedes diesel!) that just turned > over 82k miles. After taking my car to get it aligned, the mechanic > informed me of two things: > > 1. My front left ball joint is worn and must be replaced immediately. > 2. All four of my shocks are leaking "severely" I can't help you with the ball joints, but, if you concur with your mechanic, have them replaced. You'd probably be better off having the mechanic do it as I believe you need some special tools to do it. I may be wrong on this, though. As for the shocks. My '81 240D has the original Bilsteins on it. I will probably replace them later this year. My mechanic showed me how a worn Bilstein goes bad. The first 1/4 inch or so of travel "slips". The shock would pass all tests for being good or bad, but you would notice a "jittery" ride over slight bumps in the road. If you were on a rough road, they'd be fine. If you are feeling this on the roads you travel, you might want to replace them. Not replacing them won't cause any problems, including cupping of the tires, but you just wouldn't get get as smooth a ride as you should. If they are bottoming out, put a new set on. I would stay with the Bilsteins as the suspensions of our MB's are designed around these shocks. Replacing them with Monroe's or KYB's will result in a bit rougher ride. The cost difference is minimal. That's my 2 cents... Jon '81 240D 246,500 "Mathilde" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:00:49 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks Chris, I will agree with Jon here. The ball joint replacement requires a spring compressor and a few other specialized tools. If you are gung-ho about doing this type of work, do the research and go for it. I would evaluate the cost of the tool rentals and safety/hassle of the job against the labor savings. Remember that you will need an alignment when you get done. On the shocks, I am really leary of a mechanic that reports "your shocks are leaking" without having done any performance tests. My rear shocks were replaced at 140,000 miles and my fronts are still on the car with 151,000 miles on them. They weap oil, but I have not seen adverse effects. When my rear shocks failed, we were experiencing sub-zero weather, and it was really obvious from the pogo-ing that I need some repair out back. I used the standard duty Bilsteins and am very happy with the result. Another group that I participate in (Jon is in it too) has posted advice against using the heavy duty versions, because they make the ride harsh. I envy you your '85 model Turbo with the higher stall speed torque converter. Those of us with '82-'84 machines must wait for the engine to struggle from 1800-2500 rpm before the engine comes alive. Can you chirp your tires in second gear? Regards, Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jon Filina > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:19 AM > To: Chris Straut; diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks > > > Chris was trying to determine his options and wrote: > > > Hi all. I have an '85 300D (my first Mercedes diesel!) > that just turned > > over 82k miles. After taking my car to get it aligned, the mechanic > > informed me of two things: > > > > 1. My front left ball joint is worn and must be replaced > immediately. > > 2. All four of my shocks are leaking "severely" > > I can't help you with the ball joints, but, if you concur with your > mechanic, have them replaced. You'd probably be better off having the > mechanic do it as I believe you need some special tools to do > it. I may be > wrong on this, though. > > As for the shocks. My '81 240D has the original Bilsteins on > it. I will > probably replace them later this year. My mechanic showed me > how a worn > Bilstein goes bad. The first 1/4 inch or so of travel > "slips". The shock > would pass all tests for being good or bad, but you would > notice a "jittery" > ride over slight bumps in the road. If you were on a rough > road, they'd be > fine. If you are feeling this on the roads you travel, you > might want to > replace them. Not replacing them won't cause any problems, including > cupping of the tires, but you just wouldn't get get as smooth > a ride as you > should. > > If they are bottoming out, put a new set on. I would stay with the > Bilsteins as the suspensions of our MB's are designed around > these shocks. > Replacing them with Monroe's or KYB's will result in a bit > rougher ride. > The cost difference is minimal. > > That's my 2 cents... > > Jon > '81 240D 246,500 "Mathilde" > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:16:07 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: A/C Compressor Woes Hi Thorsten, I had my compressor replaced two years ago. The price for the rotary compressor was $300. It was purchased from a General Motors supplier and not Mercedes-Benz. My system was filled with R12 ($125). I wouldn't convert until the cost of R-12 approaches or exceeds the cost of the conversion. Maybe some of our AC-experienced members can comment on the conversion costs. My vague sense is that the expansion valve and receiver/dryer units need to be replaced, and that rest of the original system remains. Remember that I said "vague". Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Thorsten Windhues > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:50 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: A/C Compressor Woes > > > Hi, > > as we are talking about ac's, I would like to ask some > questions, as well. > Does anyone know the exact price MB asks for a R4 > compressor? And does > anyone know if they still charge with R12? > You want to know why I ask this? Well, my compressor is > leaking oil and > needs service, so why shouldn't I get this job done while I am in the > states, the land of the airconditioning. > > Thanks, > > Thorsten > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:32:33 EST From: Travelbike-at-aol.com Subject: What'syour mpg ? I'm a VW Rabbit diesel owner taking the plunge to buy a MBZ diesel for the wifey who needs an AT. I've been spoiled with the 40+ mpg on the Rabbit - slow though on any incline. What's the typical mpg's for these fine machines ? My dad owned a 240D stick a few years back and enjoyed it. Any preferences ? - 240D, 300D or the turbodiesel. We're limited by a $3K budget. Again Thanks ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:41:05 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: What'syour mpg ? I get 23-24 on the highway, I drive -at- 75mph usually. Before I raised the boost on my turbo, I would get 25-26 by driving between 65-75. Kept below 65, my highway mileage would creep up to 28-29. For $3000, you might be able to get a decent 300D, but be sure to pay for a Pre-Purchase inspection at a Mercedes repair facility, so that you know what is lurking in the "future repair" category. A $2500 car that needs a $1500 transmission is a $1000 car. I love my 123 body car for its comfort and reliability. The only non-stock item you will need is a decent stereo system. Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Travelbike-at-aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 10:33 AM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: What'syour mpg ? > > > I'm a VW Rabbit diesel owner taking the plunge to buy a MBZ > diesel for the > wifey who needs an AT. I've been spoiled with the 40+ mpg on > the Rabbit - > slow though on any incline. > > What's the typical mpg's for these fine machines ? My dad > owned a 240D stick > a few years back and enjoyed it. > > Any preferences ? - 240D, 300D or the turbodiesel. We're > limited by a $3K > budget. Again Thanks ! > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:29:20 +0100 From: Thorsten Windhues Subject: RE: A/C Compressor Woes Hi Dave, I can live with 300 UDd for a compressor, my car already has one from GM. more important is the question if R12 will still be available at the end of this year and how much an ac shop charges for replacing the compressor and refilling with R12. At 08:16 21.03.00 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Thorsten, > >I had my compressor replaced two years ago. The price for the rotary >compressor was $300. It was purchased from a General Motors supplier >and not Mercedes-Benz. My system was filled with R12 ($125). I wouldn't >convert until the cost of R-12 approaches or exceeds the cost of the >conversion. Maybe some of our AC-experienced members can comment on the >conversion costs. My vague sense is that the expansion valve and >receiver/dryer units need to be replaced, and that rest of the original >system remains. Remember that I said "vague". > >Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH >'82 300D MBCA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:35:05 -0500 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: A/C Compressor Woes The labor to replace my compressor was $125, and your guess is as good as mine on the R12 price/availability. Check with a couple of A/C shops and see what you get for answers. I am sure the ones that are pushing R134a conversions will give different answers than the ones still servicing R12 systems. Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Thorsten Windhues > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 2:29 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: A/C Compressor Woes > > > Hi Dave, > > I can live with 300 UDd for a compressor, my car already has > one from GM. > more important is the question if R12 will still be available > at the end of > this year and how much an ac shop charges for replacing the > compressor and > refilling with R12. > > > At 08:16 21.03.00 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi Thorsten, > > > >I had my compressor replaced two years ago. The price for the rotary > >compressor was $300. It was purchased from a General Motors supplier > >and not Mercedes-Benz. My system was filled with R12 > ($125). I wouldn't > >convert until the cost of R-12 approaches or exceeds the cost of the > >conversion. Maybe some of our AC-experienced members can > comment on the > >conversion costs. My vague sense is that the expansion valve and > >receiver/dryer units need to be replaced, and that rest of > the original > >system remains. Remember that I said "vague". > > > >Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH > >'82 300D MBCA > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:48:20 -0500 From: "Chris Straut" Subject: RE: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks Thanks for your help, everyone. Dave - I have a hard time getting the tires to chirp in any gear! I too end up waiting while the engine struggles to get motivated :) Regards, Chris - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of David Masinick Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 8:01 AM To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: RE: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks Chris, I will agree with Jon here. The ball joint replacement requires a spring compressor and a few other specialized tools. If you are gung-ho about doing this type of work, do the research and go for it. I would evaluate the cost of the tool rentals and safety/hassle of the job against the labor savings. Remember that you will need an alignment when you get done. On the shocks, I am really leary of a mechanic that reports "your shocks are leaking" without having done any performance tests. My rear shocks were replaced at 140,000 miles and my fronts are still on the car with 151,000 miles on them. They weap oil, but I have not seen adverse effects. When my rear shocks failed, we were experiencing sub-zero weather, and it was really obvious from the pogo-ing that I need some repair out back. I used the standard duty Bilsteins and am very happy with the result. Another group that I participate in (Jon is in it too) has posted advice against using the heavy duty versions, because they make the ride harsh. I envy you your '85 model Turbo with the higher stall speed torque converter. Those of us with '82-'84 machines must wait for the engine to struggle from 1800-2500 rpm before the engine comes alive. Can you chirp your tires in second gear? Regards, Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jon Filina > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:19 AM > To: Chris Straut; diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: W123 Ball Joint / Shocks > > > Chris was trying to determine his options and wrote: > > > Hi all. I have an '85 300D (my first Mercedes diesel!) > that just turned > > over 82k miles. After taking my car to get it aligned, the mechanic > > informed me of two things: > > > > 1. My front left ball joint is worn and must be replaced > immediately. > > 2. All four of my shocks are leaking "severely" > > I can't help you with the ball joints, but, if you concur with your > mechanic, have them replaced. You'd probably be better off having the > mechanic do it as I believe you need some special tools to do > it. I may be > wrong on this, though. > > As for the shocks. My '81 240D has the original Bilsteins on > it. I will > probably replace them later this year. My mechanic showed me > how a worn > Bilstein goes bad. The first 1/4 inch or so of travel > "slips". The shock > would pass all tests for being good or bad, but you would > notice a "jittery" > ride over slight bumps in the road. If you were on a rough > road, they'd be > fine. If you are feeling this on the roads you travel, you > might want to > replace them. Not replacing them won't cause any problems, including > cupping of the tires, but you just wouldn't get get as smooth > a ride as you > should. > > If they are bottoming out, put a new set on. I would stay with the > Bilsteins as the suspensions of our MB's are designed around > these shocks. > Replacing them with Monroe's or KYB's will result in a bit > rougher ride. > The cost difference is minimal. > > That's my 2 cents... > > Jon > '81 240D 246,500 "Mathilde" > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:27:46 -0800 From: john Subject: a bounced msg... junk science and R12 believe it or not... majordumbo puked on the un s u b stantiated thing... I agree, with Mark, it's JUNK science. It makes no sense how something heavier than air can get into the stratosphere... I had one eco-eccentric try to explain that the winds would push it up on top of mountains where it would somehow get sucked up to 30,000 feet from a 10,000 foot mountain. WHat really happened is DuPont's patent expired on R-12. john From: MarkFountain >On this thread of air conditioning, I lost all my R12 out of my 82 300D >last >year. I've been savving my penys to have a friend fix the leak and >recharge >it with r134 before the hot weather comes. >I had thought that the current US regime had frowned on the use of r12 >and >has practically taxed it out of existence due to its alleged >( u ns ub s tan tiated) harm to the ozone layer. Do they still make the stuff >and >is it legal for an ordinary person to possess it here any more? I know >you >have to be a bonded air conditioner serviceman to even obtain r12 here >in >Oregon. What I'm really interested in is what the real difference is >between >staying with r12 versus switching over to r134. >Any opinions or helpful suggestions . . . > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:40:32 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Diesel Prices At 11:32 AM 3/22/00 +0700, SiregarAbdi-at-tpj.co.id wrote: > > >Does anyone have tried using Biodiesel in Mercedes Benz turbo diesel >engine, such as 300TD? There was a research project done by the University of Idaho at Boise, I think... You might find the info on the web... I can't remember which rigs they used... I think it was a couple different US pickups though. I don't know of any reason why it wouldn't work though. john > > > > >john on 18/03/2000 03:21:18 > >To: MarkFountain >cc: diesel-benz list (bcc: Abdi Siregar/TPJ) > >Subject: Re: Diesel Prices > > > > > >I've run my Diesels on: > > used vegetable oil > used motor oil > Diesel #1 > Diesel #2 > Diesel #2 mixed with Kerosene (to thin) > Diesel #2 mixed with Regular Unleaded (to thin) > Fresh Motor oil > >Yes, your Diesel will work quite nicely on home heating oil, I think >it's about the same as Diesel #1. > >If you're using something other than Diesel #2 out of a pump, I highly >recommend an additional set of filters... My wabbit died quite suddenly >because of a clogged fuel filter... because I'd been using the old french >fry oil... ;) > >Filter your non-standard stuff and you'll be fine. I'd recommend at least >a 50% "normal" solution so any additives and cleaners they've been putting >in will still be there. The only issue, besides filtration, that you >need to be concerned about is the lubricity of the fuel... so you don't >prematurely wear out your injectors or pump. > >I have heard of a couple of women that drove a Chevy van with a 6.2L Diesel >coast to coast using the waste fat and grease from restuarants... no side >effects >were reported... They used no additives or regular diesel fuel that was >reported... > >john > > >At 11:11 AM 3/17/00 -0800, MarkFountain wrote: >>Just saw a Texaco station down the street here in East Portland OR with >diesel for >>1.999 a gallon, 10 c more a gallon than their premium. BTW, I got fuel >last week in >>Vancouver WA for 1.599, just across the Columbia River from Portland. >>This is outrageous for here seeing that it was only 1.299 in January I >believe. I >>guess we'll just ride it out. They can't go on charging those prices >indefinitely. >>Has anyone ever tried using home heating oil for other purposes than >heating their >>home :)? >>(Not to break the law or anything like that, of course!) >> >>Mark Fountain '82 300D 235,000 mi. >>PS: I like the roominess in the MBs since I'm 6' 8" tall. >> >> >----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >----------------------------------------------------- > > > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:19:42 +0100 From: Thorsten Windhues Subject: Re: Diesel Prices The W123 Diesels run with Biodiesel. The only modification to be done is to change the rubber fuel lines, That's all, it only costs a couple of bucks and some time to do it. At 22:40 21.03.00 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:32 AM 3/22/00 +0700, SiregarAbdi-at-tpj.co.id wrote: > > > > > >Does anyone have tried using Biodiesel in Mercedes Benz turbo diesel > >engine, such as 300TD? > >There was a research project done by the University of Idaho at >Boise, I think... You might find the info on the web... I can't >remember which rigs they used... I think it was a couple different >US pickups though. > >I don't know of any reason why it wouldn't work though. > >john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:01:05 -0800 From: john Subject: a friend's ebay offering http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=291433857 check it out, it's really, really well cared for. (he's getting a new one.) ok, ok, I know, I know... it is a F**D, but what can you say? :) He's a nice guy in spite of it... ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com 67 J3000 (SJ) / 88 wagoneer ltd (xj) / 83 J10 stepside (SJ) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #295 *********************************