From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #308 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, April 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 308 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 1982 Mercedes Benz transmisions Re: 1982 Mercedes Benz transmisions Hello, Glow Plug problems Re: Hello, Glow Plug problems Supplier/workshop for used engine 300 TD and Automatic Gearbox for W123 Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:11:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: 1982 Mercedes Benz transmisions don't have anything like this... sorry, a dealer might be able to help, sometimes the computer image is useful... parts dept... john On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Bradley Christopher Alsaker wrote: >-->John >--> I was hoping you would have some diagrams of the valve body. >-->I took it apart and need a little help putting it back together . >-->Any help would be grate. >-->Thanks for your time. >-->E-mail me at c_alsaker-at-yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 00:01:27 -0500 (CDT) From: matthew j mason Subject: Re: 1982 Mercedes Benz transmisions Yes, wouldn't the exploded diagrams in the factory parts manuals have this (or even the diagrams in the Impco/Performance Products catalogs - www.performanceproducts.com), for that matter... ...or am I misunderstanding what you mean by valve body? (probably true) good luck -- Matt ______________________________________________ Matthew J. Mason matthew-mason-at-uiowa.edu Colleges of Education and Liberal Arts University of Iowa On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, john wrote: > don't have anything like this... sorry, a dealer > might be able to help, sometimes the > computer image is useful... parts dept... > > > john > > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Bradley Christopher Alsaker wrote: > > >-->John > >--> I was hoping you would have some diagrams of the valve body. > >-->I took it apart and need a little help putting it back together . > >-->Any help would be grate. > >-->Thanks for your time. > >-->E-mail me at c_alsaker-at-yahoo.com > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:43:19 -0500 From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Hello, Glow Plug problems Hi folks! I'm new to this list. Just signed up this morning. I was desperately looking for a source of knowledge for my '83 240D. Looks like I found it :) I've been having an awful time with glow plugs. I've gone through eight plugs since Christmas! And I just lost another 2 over the weekend. The car won't even start now. I just purchased the car this past fall and when I replaced all four just before Christmas I figured they had been in there for a long time and just wore out. Then I lost three of those a month later and by the time I received them in the mail I had lost the 4th one. Now two months later I've lost two more! I replaced the glow plug timing relay at the recommendation of the parts guy who sold me the last set of plugs. That obviously didn't solve the problem! Where should I look for problems?? Scanning the list archives I noticed someone talked about bypassing the glow plug timing relay with a manual pushbutton switch. Anybody wanna' elaborate on that one? Previous to this 240D I had an '97 Ford Escort with a 2.0 liter Mazda diesel. EXCELLENT machine! 198k miles before the Wisconsin winters/salt made the body too much like swiss cheese to continue driving. I'm looking for a new body for the engine :) Any help will be GREATLY appreciated! Jim/ Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:10:04 -0500 (CDT) From: matthew j mason Subject: Re: Hello, Glow Plug problems Two suggestions, Jim (from someone who's been through it) -- When my '80 240D was eating plugs like cookies, I rigged a manual pushbutton that you describe, by running heavy-gauge copper wire (10, or 8) from the screw terminals on the glow relay box (which are connected by a fusible link, a little piece of tin-looking metal - you'll remove this when you attach one wire to each terminal). What this does is it bypasses the timer on the glow relay box - when you push that button, you're closing the glow plug circuit and glowing the system manually. This will get you started, and for the time being, will probably stop the glow plug problem, but it's a pain in the neck to run the button or switch into the cabin. Two ideas as to why it's happening, but first, an almost definite diagnosis: The timer on that relay is shot, and the plugs are staying hot long after they should... they really shouldn't be hot for more than 2 or 3 seconds after the engine turns over (unassisted by the starter motor). Suggestions to check: Replace any corroded, questionable, or old-style porcelain fuses with the glass Buss type (less prone to corrosion, it seems), and be sure that the fuses installed are of the correct GBC rating. While the fuses are out, put a meter on the terminals UNDER the fuses... check for areas of high resistance. When I was burning plugs quickly, it was because the terminal in the fuse block under the fuse which governs the glow system, had built up an area of such high resistance (on the copper spring terminals that hold the fuse in place), that I might as well have been running with a piece of metal jammed in between them (preventing the fuse from blowing, and sending current across the gap for too long). Also -- what kind of shape is the engine in, generally speaking? I don't know if there's a connection here, and more than likely there isn't -- but the engine that was in the car when I bought it was in some sorry shape ANYWAY (frequent injector knocking, lots of oil blowby, etc.), and I have a hunch that a poor injector spray pattern on the glowplug was contributing to its demise... I wonder if the fuel wasn't igniting disproportionately in a particular spot on the plug (over and over again), combined with the fact that the plug was staying hot for far too long. I hope some of this helps... Admittedly the fuse block idea may be a long shot... it's probably just a fritzed timer in the glow plug relay box. Easy to bypass for the short term. If you have any questions, post to the list or email me directly (NOTICE THE SPAMBLOCK). Lotsa luck -- mjm ______________________________________________ Matthew J. Mason matthew-mason-at-NOSPAMHEREuiowa.edu Colleges of Education and Liberal Arts University of Iowa On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Jim Hoffman wrote: > Hi folks! > > I'm new to this list. Just signed up this morning. I was desperately > > looking for a source of knowledge for my '83 240D. Looks like I found > it :) > > I've been having an awful time with glow plugs. I've gone through > eight plugs since Christmas! And I just lost another 2 over the > weekend. The car won't even start now. I just purchased the car > this past fall and when I replaced all four just before Christmas I > figured they had been in there for a long time and just wore out. > Then I lost three of those a month later and by the time I received > them in the mail I had lost the 4th one. Now two months later I've > lost two more! I replaced the glow plug timing relay at the > recommendation of the parts guy who sold me the last set of plugs. > That obviously didn't solve the problem! Where should I look for > problems?? > > Scanning the list archives I noticed someone talked about bypassing > the glow plug timing relay with a manual pushbutton switch. Anybody > wanna' elaborate on that one? > > Previous to this 240D I had an '97 Ford Escort with a 2.0 liter > Mazda diesel. EXCELLENT machine! 198k miles before the Wisconsin > winters/salt made the body too much like swiss cheese to continue > driving. I'm looking for a new body for the engine :) > > Any help will be GREATLY appreciated! > > Jim/ > > Jim Hoffman > Oconomowoc WI > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:09:56 +0700 From: SiregarAbdi-at-tpj.co.id Subject: Supplier/workshop for used engine 300 TD and Automatic Gearbox for W123 Dear Alec and John, I would like to have your favour by informing me of address completed with e-mail or fax no. of some suppliers/workshops who could supply in continous basis of: Used (good condition, low mileage) or rebuilt rebuilt condition, engine assy Mercedes Benz 300TD, turbo diesels 5 cylinders, 3000 CC, completed with automatic gearbox and its accessories, engine type OM 617.951 from 300SD, built year 1981 - 1985 or OM 617.952 from 300D, CD, TD, built year 1981-1985 Used (good condition, low mileage) or rebuilt condition, engine assy Mercedes Benz 300TD, turbo diesels 6 cylinders, 3000 CC, completed with automatic gearbox and its accessories, engine type OM 603.960 from 300D, TD built year 1987 or OM 603.961 from 300SDL built year 1986-1987 or OM 603.970 from 350SD, SDL built year 1990 - 1991. Used (good condition, low mileage) or rebuilt condition, engine assy Mercedes Benz 300TD, turbo diesels 6 cylinders, 3000 CC, 24 valves, completed with automatic gearbox and its accessories, engine type OM 606.910 from W124 300D, built year 1995 Used (good condition, low mileage) or rebuilt conditon, completed set of automatic gearbox for Mercedes Benz 280E W123 built year 1980 - 1985 in such countries: France Germany Holland Belgium UK USA Thank you for your kind help and really need this information, I've been trying finding out from internet but unfortunately I just got one, that is Adsit Company in USA, nothing from Europe. Best Regards Abdi Siregar Alec Cordova on 07/04/2000 22:24:47 To: Abdi Siregar/TPJ cc: "Diesel-Benz List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: BEST 300 Turbo diesel engine - -----Original Message----- >Do you know the engine specification of Mercedes Benz 300 TD such as: type >number, power output, which body types using this type (W....), built year, >capacity, etc. which has 6 cylinders and equipped with turbocharge & >intercooler. Which type number is the best configuration? Is it true >that the engine which using in sedan is high compression type and which >using in station wagon (Jeep style, 4 WD) is low compression? > >Thank you. > >Regards, > >Abdi Siregar ******* Your questions could use a little more clarification, and even then I don't know all of the answers, but I'll tell you what I can. Keep in mind that since I have owned a 1985 300D for seven or eight years, the W123 chassis is the one with which I am most familiar. The 300TD model designation is used for diesel station wagons (estates). In the US, with the possible exception of one or two model years, the diesel station wagons always used a turbocharged diesel engine. This, along with the fact that "turbo" and the letter T appear very closely related, has lead to some confusion among many people. Turbocharged Diesel engines were sold in the US in the 1981 to 1985 300D (W123 chassis), in all of the W126 300SD, 300SDL, 350SD, 350SDL (did they really sell those two motors in both length 126s?), in the W124 300D, and, lest we forget, in the late eighties W201 190D 2.5 turbo. Through 1985, it was a 3.0 liter, 5-cylinder motor, with around 130 horsepower (US measurement). That was the OM617 line of engines. The 5-cylinder may have been used for a year or two after 1985 in the W126 300SD. Around that time, I believe they switched to a 6-cylinder design, but I don't know the engine family number. I also do not know when or if intercoolers were used, except that they were not used on the W123 300D, or on the W126 300SD, as far as I know. The motor in the 350SD or 350 SDL is a six cylinder design that has sometimes shown a tendency to wear the cylinders unevenly. They end up with somewhat of an oval bore, instead of purely cylindrical, and nasty things happen as a result. You can probably find 350 motors that run and last like list members expect MB diesels to do, but you will find a lot more problem 350 motors than of any other Mercedes diesel sold in the US in the last twenty or thirty years. Other than that 350 motor, all of the Mercedes turbodiesels are glorious engines. Only having owned an 85, I am partial to those, but I understand that the mid 90's brought 24-valve 6-cylinder turbodiesels in the W124 300D that were quite peppy. As to your last question, the only low compression diesel is a dead diesel. They all run at least 20 to 1 compression, compared to 8 or 10 to 1 compression in gasoline motors. That's the way you make diesel fuel ignite without spark plugs. To my knowledge, the only difference between motors used in sedans versus those used in wagons (assuming the same family of motor) is the exhaust system. There may be changes to fit around different floorpans and rear suspensions, which may have minor effects on power output. For more information, you may want to visit www.mbz.org , and follow some of the links available there, or visit John's site at www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz . You may be able to find the detailed answers to your questions. Regards, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 100K 85 300DT, <200K 97 Z3 1.9, 95K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #308 *********************************