From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #331 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, June 7 2000 Volume 01 : Number 331 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D the dilema... RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Re: 80 300TDT looks like we may be back!!! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 21:01:48 -0700 From: john Subject: quick questions - issues on 85 300D I test drove the 85 300D tonight... I took some more pix, they're at: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/85-300D-TurboDiesel Questions: 1) when under hard acceleration this thing shifts into 2nd (or is it 3rd) really hard... jolts you back in the seat... normal acceleration, shifts firm, but smooth. IS THIS A WORRY? It is a noticeable slam when floored... 2) The trunk lid doesn't seem to close properly, the underside of the trunk lid is gray... seems to me they're usually the color of the rig, right? I can't tell if it's been rearended, didn't notice anything unusual underneath... 3) turn signals and 4ways don't flash... expensive or a pain to fix? 4) cruise doesn't work, I think I know this drill, anything in particular about an 85 that's a worry? The climate control works well, as does the a/c. The right rear window clunks a bit, the others are ok. Sunroof works very nicely. Brakes squeak but work very well. Passenger side electric mirror works. Paint looks original, minor scratches and such but no serious flaws. Under hood looks clean. He's been running Delo 400, I like that. The turbo and oxidizer was replaced two years ago under the recall. I'm working on convincing the wife that we need a "spare" car. I need it so I can restore Superdawg. But right now my immediate concern is the little wagoneer... I think the transfer case may be getting ready to grenade... Anyway, would appreciate fast answers, gonna wait to hear from you guys before calling the guy back, hope to buy it at lunch time tomorrow if I'm gonna do it. The guy was asking $4,300 (which I think is a very fair price all things considered) but accepted my negotiations at $3,100. The tires are also marginal... I need to decide to sell the little wagoneer I guess... that'll make the Benz a no-brainer, IF it's not gonna be a maintenance nightmare... My concern is the tranny... The other stuff is simple. Waiting for your feedback. Thanx for being there folks. btw, please cc me directly, I'm still in digest mode. john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:28:05 -0500 (CDT) From: matthew j mason Subject: Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D FWIW, the inside of my trunk lid has always been black.... ;) - - Matt '80 240D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:41:20 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D hmm... so having a gray trunk lid inside isn't unusual? You can see the paint on the edge of the lid... really not a big deal I guess... just seems strange the trunk lid doesn't close properly... but I can't find evidence of a rear end collision in the underbody... of course it has undercoating... so it could be hidden... but when I looked in the trunk in the spare well it all looked fine... I'm more concerned about the HARD shifting... john At 11:28 PM 6/1/00 -0500, matthew j mason wrote: > > >FWIW, the inside of my trunk lid has always been black.... ;) > >- Matt '80 240D > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 05:12:32 -0400 From: "David Masinick" Subject: RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D John, The hard 1-2 shifting is normal. I would be more concerned about "flaring" in the 3-4 shift. Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > > > I'm more concerned about the HARD shifting... > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:43:20 -0500 From: Alec Cordova Subject: RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D Everything sounds right. You may be able to adjust the head-bobbing 1-2 shift, but I always figured it was a side effect of the power curve of the turbodiesel. You get used to it, and you find yourself listening for a chirp to brag about. Rarely happens, but you keep expecting it. ;-) My non-California 85 also has the dark gray underside of the trunk lid. Not sure what to think about the misalignment, though. Non-flashing lights are probably either a cheap fuse, or one or two fairly cheap relays that Rusty sells. If they never flash, just try changing the fuse. As for the cruise control, unless it's needed to sell this deal to the rest of the family, just live without it. I find the throttle feel and response quite pleasant, and would probably miss it if my cruise worked. ;-) Clunky window is most likely regulator, not motor. You might be able to lube some life back into it, although I don't know what type of lube is recommended there. Regulators aren't that bad anyway, around 75 bucks, and they're easy to replace. Brakes often squeak. Put a little goop of some sort on the back of the pads next time they're changed. Just to clarify, the trap oxidizer was a California-only emissions device that turned out not to be so good. If the trap and the turbo have been corrected, there should be no other consequences or drawbacks due to this. The turbo, especially with the higher stall speed on the 85 tranny (which always starts in first, by the way, except perhaps when you put it in S, which I think forces a start in second), makes a glorious daily driver out of these. You should never have to regret that it's a diesel. Acceleration under all conditions is at least acceptable, and sometimes surprising. This one sounds very nice. Especially at that price. You will definitely get over 3K worth of enjoyable driving from it. Alec - -----Original Message----- John, The hard 1-2 shifting is normal. I would be more concerned about "flaring" in the 3-4 shift. Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH '82 300D MBCA > > > I'm more concerned about the HARD shifting... > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:34:46 -0700 From: john Subject: the dilema... ...my wife won't sell her jeep (the little wagoneer) ...I won't sell my jeep (superdawg) and she doesn't want three cars because the place starts looking like a used car lot... ...the little wagoneer has 201,000 plus miles and will need some work, we talked about maybe selling it for the 85 300D, but my wife and kids are tall and they didn't fit in my 81 300 very well... ...both my wife and I want a newer Grand Cherokee (the WJ)... but can't afford it right now... ...so, at this point it looks bleak for the prospect of getting the 85 300D TurboDiesel... I know I'd rather drive my J10 to work... Any idea what my 88 xj wagoneer limited is worth??? To top it off I saw a cherry 79 300TD in the parking lot for sale... arggghhhhh... hello, my name is john, and I'm a car-aholic... ;) later, - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com 67 J3000 (SJ) / 88 wagoneer ltd (xj) / 83 J10 stepside (SJ) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:01:05 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D thanx... but I haven't convinced the wife that we need it yet... she refuses to sell "her" jeep, even though it's impending doom on wheels... ;) she just counters with, why don't you sell "your" Jeep... :) We both agree that we want to replace "her" jeep with a newer Grand Cherokee (WJ model)... we don't need three vehicles, because three vehicles really is 5 plus a trailer... :) daughter and son both have vehicles.. (son has a Jeep too.. ;) john At 05:12 AM 6/2/00 -0400, David Masinick wrote: >John, > >The hard 1-2 shifting is normal. I would be more concerned about >"flaring" in the 3-4 shift. > >Dave Masinick Hopkinton, NH >'82 300D MBCA > >> >> >> I'm more concerned about the HARD shifting... >> > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:27:51 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D thanx for the responses... at this point it looks like I've reached an impasse with my wife... since we really don't even need two cars (er Jeeps), she can't see the point of having a spare. She makes a good point. I'm the only one that works, and I usually have at least one of our rigs running... ;) I'm still thinking that the Benz would be a good car to use while I take my 83 J10 Stepside off line and restore... But I'm not ready to do that yet. It'll be later this year before I'm ready to take it apart... the timing just doesn't look right... the Benz will sit like a neglected foster step child... :( whimper... john At 09:25 AM 6/2/00 EDT, Chris Straut wrote: >John, I have an 85 300D with about 70k miles on it. I simply love the car.. >you can't go wrong with an '85! I'll try to answer a few of these :) > >1) I also get a nice jolt on the 1-2 shift under hard acceleration. From >what I've gathered from others on this list and my own experiences it's a >normal condition for 85's, a result of changes made to this drive train in >this model year. > >2) The underside of my trunk lid is black (or maybe a very dark grey), and >my car is white :) > >3) Couldn't tell you anything about turn signals or flashers, as I've never >encountered a problem with mine. > >Just to list the problems I've run into with my car.. >1. I need to replace my AC compressor.. it seems to have siezed up. >2. A stripped gear in my sunroof motor trashed the cable, ended up >replacing sunroof cable and motor. This is a very easy to do on these cars. > Gotta love German engineering. >3. My brakes also squeak, although they do work fine. Does the car have >ABS? Mine doesn't, so I don't have any experience with it. (p.s. - are >there any solutions for the break squeak?) > >>From: john >>To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>Subject: quick questions - issues on 85 300D >>Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 21:01:48 -0700 >> >>I test drove the 85 300D tonight... I took some >>more pix, they're at: >> >>http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/85-300D-TurboDiesel >> >>Questions: >> 1) when under hard acceleration this thing shifts into >> 2nd (or is it 3rd) really hard... jolts you back >> in the seat... normal acceleration, shifts firm, but smooth. >> IS THIS A WORRY? It is a noticeable slam when floored... >> >> 2) The trunk lid doesn't seem to close properly, the underside >> of the trunk lid is gray... seems to me they're usually the >> color of the rig, right? I can't tell if it's been rearended, >> didn't notice anything unusual underneath... >> >> 3) turn signals and 4ways don't flash... expensive or a pain >> to fix? >> >> 4) cruise doesn't work, I think I know this drill, anything >> in particular about an 85 that's a worry? >> >>The climate control works well, as does the a/c. The right rear >>window clunks a bit, the others are ok. Sunroof works very nicely. >>Brakes squeak but work very well. Passenger side electric mirror works. >> >>Paint looks original, minor scratches and such but no serious flaws. >>Under hood looks clean. He's been running Delo 400, I like that. >> >>The turbo and oxidizer was replaced two years ago under the recall. >> >>I'm working on convincing the wife that we need a "spare" car. I >>need it so I can restore Superdawg. But right now my immediate concern >>is the little wagoneer... I think the transfer case may be getting >>ready to grenade... >> >>Anyway, would appreciate fast answers, gonna wait to hear from you >>guys before calling the guy back, hope to buy it at lunch time >>tomorrow if I'm gonna do it. The guy was asking $4,300 (which I >>think is a very fair price all things considered) but accepted my >>negotiations at $3,100. The tires are also marginal... >> >>I need to decide to sell the little wagoneer I guess... that'll >>make the Benz a no-brainer, IF it's not gonna be a maintenance >>nightmare... >> >>My concern is the tranny... The other stuff is simple. >> >>Waiting for your feedback. Thanx for being there folks. >> >>btw, please cc me directly, I'm still in digest mode. >> >>john >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg >> SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ------- >> ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... >>...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:30:04 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: quick questions - issues on 85 300D At 08:43 AM 6/2/00 -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: >Everything sounds right. You may be able to adjust the head-bobbing 1-2 >shift, but I always figured it was a side effect of the power curve of the >turbodiesel. You get used to it, and you find yourself listening for a chirp >to brag about. Rarely happens, but you keep expecting it. ;-) > I'm gonna try and talk to my wife again... after another cup of coffee... ;) Wouldn't you know it that I spotted a cherry 79 300TD in the parking lot too... it's pristine... The nice thing about that one is I know I can't afford it. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:39:42 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D cool fix. I also found I could vary the shifting characteristics on my 81 300D by rerouting vacuum lines... vary in the sense that it worked differently... ;) john At 07:32 AM 6/2/00 -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >> I'm more concerned about the HARD shifting... >> >**** John, > > My 300D, that I bought a few weeks ago also shifted extremely hard. >That first shift under hard accelleration: bang! Klonk! Screech! >I fixed it. Zero cost. > > The problem was that somebody had miswired the vacuum stuff when they >did an engine swap. The transmission was hooked to some pollution gizmo >that seemed to be feeding it vacuum bus vacuum. And there was a little >screw plugging its vacuum input. > > The automatic transmission uses the same control system as for an >ordinary gas-powered car. But diesels don't have manifold vacuum. Instead, >they have a vacuum pump that produces more vacuum, the faster the engine >revvs. Just the opposite of manifold vacuum. > > So there's a "vacuum rheostat" dingus mounted on the injection pump, >hooked to the throttle linkage. At idle, it holds vacuum. When you press >on the pedal, it starts leaking vacuum. At full throttle, it won't >hold any vacuum. Together with a .6mm orifice on the vacuum manifold, this >"Vacuum Control Valve" forms a vacuum voltage divider, and at their >junction, a vacuum "voltage" simulatingg manifold vacuum is created. The >transmission is hooked to that node. > > On the '85s, the transmission physically connects to a big blue "mystery >pollution servo" on the fender wall. The servo is coupled to a mystery >computer that lives behind the glovebox ( I think ). I don't understand >how any of this stuff works or what it does, but I do understand that it >wasn't giving proper simulated manifold vacuum to the transmissin. I hooked >the transmission up to the top of the VCV, with a three way vacuum junction: >one leg to the VCV through a vacuum filter, one leg to the .6mm restrictor >on the manifold, and the third leg to the transmission. > > Now it shifts sweet. Shifts are definite, but not jarring. >Sorry if this was too long, but I just wanted to tell you that there might >be a cheap fix for the hard shifting. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > > > > > >> john >> >> At 11:28 PM 6/1/00 -0500, matthew j mason wrote: >> > >> > >> >FWIW, the inside of my trunk lid has always been black.... ;) >> > >> >- Matt '80 240D >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg >> SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ------- >> ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... >> ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:35:01 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: quick questions - issues on 85 300D I guess I need to get my wife to sit in it. She didn't ride in it last night... such a quandry... :) It's a nice car... but I'm not even convinced we should do it... arghhhh.... waffle, waffle, waffle... ;) john At 10:27 AM 6/2/00 -0400, Scott Frary wrote: >Date sent: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 21:01:48 -0700 >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >From: john >Subject: quick questions - issues on 85 300D > >> I test drove the 85 300D tonight... I took some >> more pix, they're at: >> >> http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/85-300D-TurboDiesel >> >> Questions: >> 1) when under hard acceleration this thing shifts into >> 2nd (or is it 3rd) really hard... jolts you back >> in the seat... normal acceleration, shifts firm, but smooth. >> IS THIS A WORRY? It is a noticeable slam when floored... > >No worry with a hard shift! That is proper for a benz trans. A soft >sliding shift would be worry some. that wears the friction plates >rapidly! >> >> 2) The trunk lid doesn't seem to close properly, the underside >> of the trunk lid is gray... seems to me they're usually the >> color of the rig, right? I can't tell if it's been rearended, >> didn't notice anything unusual underneath... >Should be black. Pull the rubber trunk mat out and remove the spare >tire cover and look at the frame. Sounds like this car could have been >rear ended and the trunk lid replaced with an aftermarket one, which >in its self is no real cause for alarm. Try and find a car that has NOT >been in a fender bender these days!? >> >> 3) turn signals and 4ways don't flash... expensive or a pain >If it's the flasher relay it could be costly. I've had trouble with them >before but always fixed it with a shot of contact cleaner. you'd be >alarmed at the crude that gets down into them! >> to fix? >> >> 4) cruise doesn't work, I think I know this drill, anything >> in particular about an 85 that's a worry? >> >> The climate control works well, as does the a/c. The right rear >> window clunks a bit, the others are ok. Sunroof works very nicely. >> Brakes squeak but work very well. Passenger side electric mirror works. >> >> Paint looks original, minor scratches and such but no serious flaws. >> Under hood looks clean. He's been running Delo 400, I like that. >> >> The turbo and oxidizer was replaced two years ago under the recall. >That solves that problem! I beleive the trap is removed replaced with a >pipe and not replaced, per MB under recall? > >> I'm working on convincing the wife that we need a "spare" car. I >> need it so I can restore Superdawg. But right now my immediate concern >> is the little wagoneer... I think the transfer case may be getting >> ready to grenade... >> >> Anyway, would appreciate fast answers, gonna wait to hear from you >> guys before calling the guy back, hope to buy it at lunch time >> tomorrow if I'm gonna do it. The guy was asking $4,300 (which I >> think is a very fair price all things considered) but accepted my >> negotiations at $3,100. The tires are also marginal... >> >> I need to decide to sell the little wagoneer I guess... that'll >> make the Benz a no-brainer, IF it's not gonna be a maintenance >> nightmare... >> >> My concern is the tranny... The other stuff is simple. >> >> Waiting for your feedback. Thanx for being there folks. >> >> btw, please cc me directly, I'm still in digest mode. >> >> john >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg >> SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ------- >> ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... >> ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... >> ------------------------------------------------------------- > >Get it! > >Scott Frary >Former MBCA member Peachtree Section >1978 300D >1979 240D >1979 300D >1980 300TD > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:54:52 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: 80 300TDT not sure where to go... I noticed that the one for sale here has already been rebuilt... john At 01:45 PM 6/2/00 -0600, John Bathory wrote: >Well I had listed a friends 1980 300TDT about 10 days ago here and have >since decided to purchase it myself. Just like it too much to part with it >after having driven it for the past 10 days. The mechanics report however >indicated that one day it shall require rear self leveling shocks and thats >it. Does anyone have a good lead on where to get these?? I'm in no rush at >all. By the way there was lots of interest in it and I did decline several >offers. > > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:06:10 -0700 From: john Subject: looks like we may be back!!! looks like the lists may be back, please reply to me since I'm in digest mode... thanx richard! john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #331 *********************************