From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-krusty-motorsports.com Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #334 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 334 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 16.02 mpg... 240 For Sale correction, it's only 8,943 miles Re: UNIMOG ! and clunking sounds... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:22:52 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: 16.02 mpg... At 12:35 AM 6/10/00 -0500, TL wrote: > >>Superdawg is fluctuating between 14 and 16.3 >>average is in the high 15's. Still haven't gotten the >>amsoil air filter installed yet... > >John, >How do you compare the amsoil filter to the K&N? let's see... how would you compare a spaghetti strainer to a fine cheese cloth? One will let certainly let much more pass through it... Question is, do you really want to let more pass through than your engine is capable of ingesting anyway? :) (k&n has some incredible cfm specs... until the filter is placed in service, then it drops off pretty rapidly as it clogs up, almost as quickly as a paper filter...) When I make this comparison I'm thinking about what kind of dust, particles and other abrasive items that are allowed to pass through the oil-wetted gauze that k&n uses. amsoil uses an oil-soaked foam. I've got a video where an independent lab tested the three types of filters. The flow rates are shown in the URL just below... but what isn't shown in the chart is what passed through the filters. The amsoil had nothing, the paper a little bit... while the k&n passed all kinds of stuff... You can see through the gauze material quite easily, and if you clean it improperly, which is easy to do, you can loose a lot of protection. The amsoil foam is denser, yet doesn't clog up, holds much more and flows more air longer. See the chart below for a relative comparison. http://www.wagoneers.com/john/AMSOIL/air-filters-chart.jpg (this is an old chart, I've got a newer one around somewhere, but the basic comparison is still valid. I think all the filters compared have been improved, except maybe the paper one...) The k&n claims some incredible CFM numbers, more than the amsoil, when the filter is fresh. But as the k&n, and paper, filters gather material they drastically reduce their flow, while the amsoil filter continues to flow. The reason for this is simple, the amsoil foam has more avenues for air, and more capacity to hold dirt. Regardless of what the specs might show, it does not restrict air flow to the point where it would make a difference. Do the math on cfm sometimes... it'll point out two things, most engines are way over carb'd and your air filter ain't gonna slow you down much... ;) Problem is I don't know of ANY engine, short of something you'd see on a Boeing produced item with wings, that would draw the air/cfm flows k&n specs anyway. An amsoil filter will flow more than adequately for any engine out there... and if it does become a limiting factor you could modify your air intake to stack more than one on top of each other. :) Or, if you really want unlimited flow, ditch the air filter all together. :) (which isn't too far away from what happens when you run a k&n any how... ;) The bottom line is that when all the factors are considered the Amsoil filter is by far the best value, filters the best, breathes the best over the entire service period, is orders of magnitude easier to clean, and protects your engine. To clean, you use soap and water and basically wring it out, place tack oil or regular engine oil on it, put it back on the metal cage and reinstall... no special cleaners, no worries about using air or a garden hose on it... it's durable and replaced without the slightest hassle if you do somehow manage to damage it! (I've done it once... ;) Paper is the next best for engine protection. The problem is, as shown in the chart, it clogs up pretty quick and then quits flowing. Then you have to throw it away... :( bad for your wallet and not good for the landfill. On most engines changing the paper element will increase your fuel economy. I've been running amsoil filters since 1983, the reason I decided to become a dealer, and while I tend to neglect my vehicles a bit, you know like not bothering to clean the air filter on my olds diesel for three years because the stupid thing was supposed to have died already... ;) and when I finally did remove the bugs, weeds and all the crudded on dust, it didn't make a bit of difference in performance or mileage... which is remarkable considering how drastic the performance was btwn paper and the amsoil! When you consider the cost of the filters it makes sense to go with an amsoil filter too. First off they're lifetime guaranteed (not only a million miles... ;) and then they cost about half of what a k&n costs. Prices vary on the various sizes, but if memory serves me correctly (which I don't trust very much... ;) it seems that one filter I looked into was about $10 for a paper, $25 for the amsoil and about $45 for the k&n. I ran across a situation once with a Mercedes where the cheapest, lowlife brand of paper filters I could find was about $45, while the amsoil filter was $20 or $25!!! k&n didn't have one for that application. I've been forced to buy a k&n once because there wasn't an amsoil one... after cleaning it one time I fixed my problem by taking some amsoil filter material and wrapping the k&n. ;) Superdawg came with a k&n filter on the holley... first thing I did was fabricate an amsoil filter to go over the top of it. :) Absolutely no change in performance or mileage by placing that "restrictive" material over the k&n... ;) I'm sorry to have gone so long on the reply... but I'm kind of passionate about the air filter thing. I truly believe it's the best value in the auto parts world. It filters the best, flows the best over the entire service period, is easy to care for and is affordable to buy. Oh yeah, the performance issue, the amsoil filter improved my 0 to 60mph time tests in that olds Diesel I mentioned before from 26 seconds to 19 seconds!!! A 5.7L Diesel tends to draw in a lot of air... I've not experienced such a gain in any other vehicle gas or diesel... but that SOLD me on the amsoil filters so much that I signed up as a Dealer and I've had an amsoil filter on almost every car I've owned since then... :) You know, I think I may still have the air filter from that olds... :) I finally killed that olds in 96... 230,000 miles on it... and they say the 5.7L diesel wasn't any good... it'd still be running if I hadn't "fixed" the transmission... rofl... I found out that Diesels don't like going from drive to first at 65 mph... oops... I guess I put that little fork thing on the wrong side of that one little part... drat... hey, for grins, here's the formula for CFM, CFM = (rpm x displacement)/3456 for example, the maximum torque of an AMC 360 is around 1,700 rpm, so let's run the numbers at that RPM... (1700 x 360)/3456 = 177.0833 CFM say, what? so you mean to tell me that the 290 cfm carb that came stock on the 81 Wagoneer was adequate??? ;) still, that seems kind of low... so let's bump the number up to say 5,000 rpm... (don't try this at home kids) (5000 x 360)/3456 = 520.833333333333333333333333333333 CFM Of course, you'd probably design your setup for your maximum torque because that's where you'd have the best volumetric efficiency... (well, that's what this book I've got here says ;) Now, if you look at the k&n specs, you might see a cfm rating of maybe 900 to 1000cfm... and they'll claim that the amsoil filter only flows at 700cfm or something like that... and a paper element at 400 cfm or thereabouts (again, those numbers are from memory and from a k&n catalog... I really don't care about the exact numbers because, as you can see by doing the math, it doesn't matter...) Anyway, my point is we don't need that much steekin' cfm no how. ok, one more... (can't help myself) the 4.0L has peak torque at 2,500 rpm... (2500 x 242)/3456 = 175.057870370370 cfm no, wait... one more... (gotta check superdawg out) stock 4.2L for 83, max torque at 1,800 rpm (1800 x 258)/3456 = 134.375 cfm... (see why a 500 cfm holley on that puppy was a bad idea? and why my mileage went from about 11 to 16? :) I really don't care if you buy an amsoil filter from me or not. I just hate to see friends pay so much for so little in a k&n. The k&n is way overpriced for what they are, and if you live where there is dust you may actually be shortening the life of your engine... the amsoil oil-soaked foam breathes plenty, much more than paper, and that's what the guys that designed the engine used in the first place... I hate to idea of throwing the paper elements away and not being able to clean and reuse... and I really don't like cleaning the k&n filters... sure, they seem to work ok... seems like the guys that have a k&n like 'em (except me)... but most of 'em have never had an amsoil filter either... (if ignorance is bliss, then some of us must be in paradise... ;) (the formula came out of the auto math handbook by hp books) later, john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/ http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-2.jpg Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:35:14 -0400 From: "Chris Straut" Subject: 240 For Sale An acquaintance of mine has a 1974 model 220 for sale in Bridgeport, WV - he says he will take about $1500 for it. The paint is maroon (same color as seen in John's '85 300D pictures). The car has a recently rebuilt engine which was installed by a Mercedes dealer and has always been serviced by Mercedes technicians. I'm told that it has been garage kept and is in good condition. Haven't had the chance to see it myself yet. If anyone's interested, I can put you in touch with the owner. Regards, Chris Straut ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:16:51 -0700 From: john Subject: correction, it's only 8,943 miles If this thing had been a Grand Wagoneer it would be sitting in my driveway right now. Seriously. http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J20-low-miles-1986/ This is one of those very rare opportunities... to see a vintage vehicle in pristine condition... Superdawg wasn't threatened at all... Still prefer my shortwheel base J10 stepside... but if any one out there is seriously considering a J20, this thing is incredible. It was appraised at $15,000 by the local classic car outfit. He's only asking $13,000 for it. FWIW, the guy said he'd look for the original invoice, it was $16K. If anyone back east is thinking about this one I can vouch for it's condition. thanx again Dave Read for point this Jewel out... I had a great time checking it out. The owner, Rick, and I agree that he shouldn't sell it. :) He's only running the ad in the truck trader... he's not highly motivated, and he shouldn't be. He has had a few FSJ's before and has a nice ZJ sitting next to it. http://www.traderonline.com/cgi-bin/coll/apps/search/photdisp.html?photo=000 50312101&phoneId=4253567042&ad=19692875&status=no&imgsite=&page=search&pstat=P gotta run, it's raining (again) and I left the doors of the Jeep open... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:03:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: UNIMOG ! and clunking sounds... On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 jonathan-at-writemail.com wrote: >--> Hi, John, saw this, $2199 , on monday,... got u salivating? even if it's not a diesel. I'd buy it but i'm in RI, and not up for a trek to nevada! >--> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=354553824 >--> tempting... very tempting... If it were a Diesel I'd be calling some friends in Nevada and negotating a place to park it until I could rebuild the xfr case in the little wagoneer and find a towbar for that guppy. :) with 4 days left I'd guess this will go a bit higher in price... ;) btw, where in the heck, er Nevada, is Stage Coach??? I suppose I could look on a map, but it's more fun to ask. ;) Had an unusual experience today with Superdawg... heard a strange clunking sound when hitting the brakes... hmmm... what's that all about??? Just had the front end done last week... he came through with a clean bill of health on the front end... maybe it's the brake calipers I thinks to meself... Ok, I figure I'll get home tonight and pull the tire and see what's up... Got off work, kicked the front tire and noticed that the lugnuts were barely on!!! My rim (alloy slotted wheels from a late 70's vintage Wagoneer) was all messed up, the holes elongated... the lug nuts were loose on the passenger side too, almost finger loose! I tightened all down and I'll be calling the shop that did the front end alignment tomorrow about a new rim... The rear lugnuts were fine. I noticed it this morning and wasn't sure what it was, even had the thing on I-5 doing the legal speed limit on that big overpass that heads over to Boeing... if that tire had come off up on that overpass I'm not sure the concrete barrier would have retained one each full size jeep... shudder... I took the curve a lot slower than usual... it just didn't feel right... I was thinking about how far down it was to those lanes waaaayyy down there... :) In about thirty years of working on cars I've never had a lugnut come loose... Didn't even think to follow up on the front end shop... however it was a new mechanic... my first clue should have been when he went out to get the brown jeep and tried to start the maroon Grand Cherokee right next to it... I'm sitting in the lounge listening to my car alarm being activated and deactivated... look out and see this guy sitting in the wrong jeep trying to start it... rofl... The shop will make it right, they're good people. Honest mistake I'm sure... Now I wonder if I should make them find a 1977 Wagoneer alloy rim... hmmm. If they can't find one to match it I wonder what they'll do? Hey Allan W. you still have those turbine style rims before I raid this spare set I have? ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com/Bible don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #334 *********************************