From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #400 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, September 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 400 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Propane doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... Re: block heaters - dutch auction Re: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... RE: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... 617 camshafts Re: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... 2001 C-Class A Turbo Question Re: Propane Re: 617 camshafts Re: A Turbo Question Re: A Turbo Question RE: 2001 C-Class RE: pricing Re: A Turbo Question Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:25:07 -0700 From: john Subject: Propane At 09:39 PM 9/23/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >RE: LPG, if you have a high compresion engine, it's much better to run >because it's 105 octane, Two questions: 1) how hard is it to set my 258 stock carb setup to also run propane? 2) what's propane cost / gal? I've got propane cylinders laying all over the place... :) Maybe all I need to do is attach a fitting to my air cleaner and open up the valve... ;) BTW, I read somewhere about using propane in a Diesel, acts just like Nitrous!!! Pretty cool, eh? Let's see, I'm already getting more horsepower out of my 300SD than Superdawg's 258 puts out... :) check it out... (of course we know that torque is more important... and the numbers are at higher rpms) '83 - 258 - 115 hp -at- 3200 / 210 ft lbs -at- 1800 rpm (apx weight 4,100 lbs) '83 - 3.0L TD - 120 hp -at- 4350 / 170 ft lbs -at- 2400 rpm (apx weight 3,800 lbs) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:13:14 -0700 From: john Subject: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... I'm trying to show the benefits of keeping the 300SD. Two issues are working against it's retention. One, Diesel prices. Two, we borrowed money to buy it... So the savings realized even after adjusting for Diesel costs is slightly offset by the payment. I worked up a spreadsheet to show the savings in cost over 1,000 miles. I'm not optimistic that my 83 J10 (superdawg) could be counted on to get 17mpg... so a more realistic test is using 15mpg all the way across... When I do that it costs me about $0.92/month to keep the benz. :) of course then he'd have to get 25 mpg in town... well, I'm sure he could... but NOT with me driving. :) Anyway... The numbers look pretty good really. Realistically it's going to cost me somewhere between $12 and $20 a month more to have the benz... of course this doesn't include insurance... :( so all bets are off... Oh, I said there were two things... more like four... the third is the $6k we have tied up in the benz is needed for the garage/shop/living room, and four, my wife still doesn't like the car... Yeah, right, like she "likes" Superdawg??? :) I drove the little wagoneer last night to run up to the store... wow, what a shock after driving the Benz around. I felt like I was sitting up on top of a bunch of boxes... and it was a ride where you could feel every variation in the road surface... But overall, not bad... and with that 4.0L you step on the go pedal and you be gone... just like I should be... this has gone long... details below. john total miles: 1000 Diesel price 1.859 Unleaded price 1.679 SuperDawg mpg: 15 15.5 16 16.5 17 cost $111.93 $108.32 $104.94 $101.76 $98.76 SuperDiesel mpg: 23 23.5 24 24.5 25 cost $80.83 $79.11 $77.46 $75.88 $74.36 delta $31.11 $29.22 $27.48 $25.88 $24.40 (now subtract an estimated $45 for the "payment"...) ======================================================================================== Here's the power specs... which makes me think a 300 turbo Diesel engine is a perfect match for a light duty FSJ... ;) very light duty... Superdawg has to work hard with my empty trailer (1,400 lbs)... Old Blue never even noticed the trailer... ;) '83 - 258 - 115 hp -at- 3200 / 210 ft lbs -at- 1800 rpm (apx weight 4,100 lbs) '83 - 3.0L TD - 120 hp -at- 4350 / 170 ft lbs -at- 2400 rpm (apx weight 3,800 lbs) =============================== I worked on Superdawg almost all day... installed the sunroof, this time using the proper sealant. ;) Also started working on the Auxillary fuel tank setup. I took it out of the 77 wagoneer. I may take the front carpet out of it too... I'm probably not gonna get much for it, so I may as well take what I can use... :) Tomorrow I'll work on the bumper and aux tank... Might take Superdawg to Leavenworth next weekend... antique sale... ya never know what my wife might find over there... ;) The decision to part with the 300SD appears to have already been made by my wife... but I'm holding out until I get the lumber bid... :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:12:58 +0200 From: Thorsten Windhues Subject: Re: block heaters - dutch auction Hi John, if it is an OEM block heater, than it is theoretically very simple to install. All you have to do is pry out one of those plugs that pop out if the coolant freezes. You can find these plugs on the right side of the engine. Do you know the drain plug for the coolant. In that area are 2 or 3 of those freezin-pop-out-plugs. They are about 2 inches in diamter or so. The only problem is to get one out. The engines are all pretty old an these plugs are sometimes very rusty. Some people here in Germany use rust remover to loosen them, I have heard of someone who finally had to remove the whole engine because he messed up something and could neither get the plug out properly nor get it back in so it would not leak. Some people give thei cars to a MB dealer so they won't have the trouble getting it in. I was thinking of installing one, as well. ut I am too scared that someone messes up my engine. I hope that helps. Bye from good old Germany, Thorsten At 22:10 23.09.00 -0700, you wrote: >what I need to find out is how hard is this thing to install??? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=446323027&r=0&t=0 > >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:28:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, john wrote: > Diesel price 1.859 > Unleaded price 1.679 My question would be whether these relative prices will hold in the long term. I don't have hard figures, but my impression is that diesel being more expensive is rather the exception than the rule until recently. The only apparent reason diesel is more expensive in Indiana--currently about $1.60 in Bloomington--is a temporary suspension of the state tax on gasoline. Gasoline was about 25 to 30 cents more than diesel prior to the suspension. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:14:40 -0400 From: "Chris Straut" Subject: RE: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... FWIW, in my area Diesel is going for ~1.55, where unleaded is $1.60+ depending on the grade Chris Straut Bridgeport, WV '85 300D, 86k - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of John Fieber Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 12:28 PM To: john Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, john wrote: > Diesel price 1.859 > Unleaded price 1.679 My question would be whether these relative prices will hold in the long term. I don't have hard figures, but my impression is that diesel being more expensive is rather the exception than the rule until recently. The only apparent reason diesel is more expensive in Indiana--currently about $1.60 in Bloomington--is a temporary suspension of the state tax on gasoline. Gasoline was about 25 to 30 cents more than diesel prior to the suspension. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:55:48 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: 617 camshafts So, on my 69k (5 digit odomoter) miles 1975 300D engine (no longer in a 300D) I have some scoring on a couple of the cams. Hence I will replace the camshaft soon. The job itself is easy from what I see, but with that am I replacing it? I am talking here about an OM617.910 engine, 300D, non-turbo, originally fitted in the 115 chassis 300D and since fitted into my 1964 Series IIA Land Rover. Taking for a minute, the OM617.950 - 952 turbo engines, there are clearly only two shapes of camshaft involved and one has higher lift in the cams. The manual says regarding the camshafts, and I quote: "It is not permitted to install engine 617.950 USA model year 1980 with increased output and engines 617.951/952 USA on engine 617.950 USA up to model year 1979." From this I sort of get the impression that one can't put the later higher lift camshafts into the pre 1979 turbo engines. But is that a legal or mechanical thing? And how does this affect my non-turbo 617.910? Could I fit the higher lift shaft and get a small tweak (welcome certainly)? I do realise that if I end up with a chilled casting camshaft I need new hardened rockers and the special chrome plated cap nuts. I also understand that if I get an uprated camshaft (higher lift) I need the special wider number 2 and 3 camshaft bearings? The mercedes manuals are great, but I think something has suffered in translation. Thorsten, or other Deutsch speakers, do you get better information from your manuals? If so maybe I should buy a german set also. Thanks in advance for any help. SDB ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:27:03 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: doing some math... SuperDawg vs. SuperDiesel... here in Washington Diesel is taxed more than gasoline... I don't know if they've suspended gas tax or not, unlikely, what is likely is the supposed shortage of heating oil has also driven up the price of Diesel... that's what I heard. john At 11:28 AM 9/24/00 -0500, John Fieber wrote: >On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, john wrote: > >> Diesel price 1.859 >> Unleaded price 1.679 > >My question would be whether these relative prices will hold in >the long term. I don't have hard figures, but my impression is >that diesel being more expensive is rather the exception than the >rule until recently. > >The only apparent reason diesel is more expensive in >Indiana--currently about $1.60 in Bloomington--is a temporary >suspension of the state tax on gasoline. Gasoline was about 25 >to 30 cents more than diesel prior to the suspension. > >-john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:29:32 -0700 From: "B. K. Darnell" Subject: 2001 C-Class Hi, all! I drove the new 2001 C-class this weekend. Do any of you have any impressions, data, or information pertaining to the C-class. While small (it's no S...), it was all Mercedes, and I was quite impressed with the car. I also took an E-320 for a spin. Quite honestly, I am shocked at the price of this particular model line --even the used prices seemed over-inflated. Any thoughts out there esteemed listers?!!? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:31:26 -0700 From: "B. K. Darnell" Subject: A Turbo Question What is going on when I accelerate and hear an extremely horrifying shriek from the engine compartment? This doesn't sound like belts. It sounds like the turbo. FYI --I did just replace a belt shock and tensioners, could the belts be too tight? Thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:36:27 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Propane more on the Diesel - Propane discussion... At 11:24 AM 9/24/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: John, You'll have to pass this on to the Mercedes list, since I'm not >on it. > >I wrote: >RE: LPG, if you have a high compresion engine, it's much better to run >because it's 105 octane, > >John wrote: >Two questions: > 1) how hard is it to set my 258 stock carb setup to also run >propane? > >A: About $700 for parts w/o tanks for a dual fuel converter (the problem >with those is that they restrict gas flow both ways causing lower fuel >economy and power.) and a dual curve dist (you only want 15 degrees >total spark advance, but gas requires more) > > 2) what's propane cost / gal? > >A: Depending where you fuel up (my buddy's shop in BC is $0.45 cdn a >liter or $1.13 US a gallon. I can get it in Lynden for $1.00 or less. It >was $0.79 2 months ago :^( > >John: >I've got propane cylinders laying all over the place... :) Maybe all I >need to do is attach a fitting to my air cleaner and open up the >valve... ;) > >A: Automotive tanks are different from BBQ tanks and have to be NHTSA >certified or police will haul your Jeep off! You can get away with >having a BBQ tank as backup, by saying it's for your grill (just don't >say it's for what's behind the grill of your rig! ) > >J: >>BTW, I read somewhere about using propane in a Diesel, acts just like >Nitrous!!! Pretty cool, eh? > >A: Was that from the link I sent of a shop in Alberta? The guy there >claims to get 40 mpg avg from his Ford powersmoke with camper going to >Vancouver, BC and back. > >J: >>Let's see, I'm already getting more horsepower out of my 300SD than >Superdawg's 258 puts out... :) check it out... (of course we know that >torque is more important... and the numbers are at higher rpms) >'83 - 258 - 115 hp -at- 3200 / 210 ft lbs -at- 1800 rpm (apx weight 4,100 lbs) >'83 - 3.0L TD - 120 hp -at- 4350 / 170 ft lbs -at- 2400 rpm (apx weight 3,800 >lbs) > >A: If you had lpg injection on ithe diesel, that would make it closer to >200 HP and 250 ftlbs of torque, according to the formula on >(περ©! I lost the URL now!) There is a shop in BC that does this >on newer diesel semi trucks and they are seeing increased economy, >longer engine life and cleaer oil and emissions (far less soot). > >************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html >************************************** - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:50:40 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: 617 camshafts At 03:55 PM 9/24/00 -0400, S.D.Byers wrote: >"It is not permitted to install engine 617.950 USA model year 1980 with >increased output and engines 617.951/952 USA on engine 617.950 USA up to >model year 1979." > > >>From this I sort of get the impression that one can't put the later higher >lift camshafts into the pre 1979 turbo engines. But is that a legal or >mechanical thing? > >And how does this affect my non-turbo 617.910? Could I fit the higher lift >shaft and get a small tweak (welcome certainly)? When I see something like this I don't think it's a "legal" issue as in emissions or what not... What I see, and understanding the German mind a bit, is that there would be some sort of interference or other technical issue associated with this. The engines are quite different. Without taking the time to look at the specs if there is a change in compression ratio for instance it could mean that the turbo has less compression and possibly a little less stroke than then non-turbo engine... So, if you take a camshaft with higher lift you're pushing the valve into the engine further... and if that engine happens to have a slightly longer stroke then valve and piston are going to meet in a most unpleasant gathering... The other issue could be that they spin the valves on certain models, and switching camshafts could affect that "feature". German engineering is very precise. Swapping parts from one design to another is risky business without a thorough understanding of BOTH designs. Tricks that work remarkably well on American designs fail miserably on German designs. I'm thinking of things I've done over the years to gain performance or economy... American engineering seems to shoot for the middle, while German engineering is closer to the edges, but extremely durable, reliable and precise. (Unlike French designs which are way on the edge and break on their own merits... no safety margin... the arrogant cusses... ;) There has been much discussion of how to swap the heads from a newer 4.0L engine onto an older 258 engine and swapping cranks and pistons and all sorts of cool stuff on Jeeps... mainly because the designs have so much latitude you can get away with it. :) American design seems to start out with a large block of iron, progressive designs just whittle away at the block until it breaks, then back up one revision. Whereas German designs take the essence of what is being done and design around the objective. Ok, enough philosophy of design, I have to go out and fix vehicles... As far as you cam swap, you may be on to something... but check the piston travel, diameter, thickness, crank throw and compressions... My guess is it's not allowed on the non-turbo because they bring the piston up higher in the cylinder and the valve and piston will meet... or the turbo version has "divots" in the piston to clear the valves... take care when messing with good engineering... there is a reason for what is there. john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:54:25 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: A Turbo Question could be the bearings in the turbo... stand outside the car, hood up, passenger side, let the car idle, have someone run the rpm's up a bit, then have them shut it off... listen to the turbo... (always remember to idle it down normally so the turbo has time to slow down before shutting off...) otherwise you have a bearing issue in one of your accessories, a/c clutch, alternator, p/s... water pump... john At 03:31 PM 9/24/00 -0700, you wrote: >What is going on when I accelerate and hear an extremely horrifying shriek >from the engine compartment? This doesn't sound like belts. It sounds like >the turbo. > >FYI --I did just replace a belt shock and tensioners, could the belts be too >tight? > >Thoughts? - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:40:24 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: A Turbo Question listen for any grinding, or bearing noises... if the turbo has bad bearings it'll be pretty obvious once the engine is turned off... I haven't looked at the benz, but if you can (AFTER it's cooled down) manually spin the turbines you'll get an idea if that's the trouble too... it should spin quite freely... there could be an intake/vacuum leak causing the shreiking too... happy troubleshooting.. john At 04:17 PM 9/24/00 -0700, B. K. Darnell wrote: >John: > >So, what am I listening FOR from the turbo after the engine is shut off? > >Thanks! > >Brian >----- Original Message ----- >From: john >To: B. K. Darnell >Cc: >Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 1:54 PM >Subject: Re: A Turbo Question > > >> could be the bearings in the turbo... >> >> stand outside the car, hood up, passenger side, let the car >> idle, have someone run the rpm's up a bit, then have them shut it >> off... listen to the turbo... (always remember to idle it down normally >> so the turbo has time to slow down before shutting off...) >> >> otherwise you have a bearing issue in one of your accessories, a/c clutch, >> alternator, p/s... water pump... >> >> john >> >> At 03:31 PM 9/24/00 -0700, you wrote: >> >What is going on when I accelerate and hear an extremely horrifying >shriek >> >from the engine compartment? This doesn't sound like belts. It sounds >like >> >the turbo. >> > >> >FYI --I did just replace a belt shock and tensioners, could the belts be >too >> >tight? >> > >> >Thoughts? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> "The truth which makes men free is for the most part >> the truth which men prefer not to hear." >> ---Herbert Sebastian Agar >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >> ------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:06:23 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: 2001 C-Class >Hi, all! > >I drove the new 2001 C-class this weekend. Do any of you have any impressions, >data, or information pertaining to the C-class. While small (it's no S...), >it was all Mercedes, and I was quite impressed with the car. > >I also took an E-320 for a spin. Quite honestly, I am shocked at the price of >this particular model line --even the used prices seemed over-inflated. > >Any thoughts out there esteemed listers?!!? > >Brian Dropped by the Austin dealership yesterday looking for some odds and ends parts, but discovered that the parts counter is weekdays only. So I looked around, including checking out the new C. By the way, the had two black S-class used cars side by side. One was the new style, the other was the previous chassis. Fun for comparison looking. New C definitely looks like a family member of the new S. Best view IMHO is the front. The back end and taillights remind me of recent Korean and Japanese small sedans. I quickly noticed that the C240 sedans, with a 2.6, had manual 6-speed trannies!! Salesman mentioned that the upcoming AMG version (C32? C36?) would come in with 350hp, rather than a previously discussed 320. Haven't checked Juergen's site for details or confirmation. My first reaction was envy, with only 177hp in my 89 300CE. Maybe I could stuff in and hook up a second motor.... I don't have any real time with any C-class, just a co-worker whose wife has a late 90's C230. My impression is that the outgoing C was an almost universal improvement over the previous chassis, and that the new one may also be better than the one it replaces. Comforting thought to a Benzaholic, even though they still make the ML. That reminds me. I also talked to the salesman about diesels and M-class. He had no word of any MB diesel motors coming to the US. He also said they would be dropping the G-wagen when they come out with the next M. He felt the values on G's would drop. I suspect he's full of s-t about dropping the G, and I'm SURE that G-wagens won't become affordable, even on the used market, for quite a while. I agree with your take on pricing. So do many others on the lists. That's why a lot of us drive older Benzes. Wait till they're under $20K, and you get a LOT more car for your money than an under-$20K new car. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE 85 300DT 97 Z3 1,9 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:20:47 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: pricing At 05:06 PM 9/24/00 -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: >I agree with your take on pricing. So do many others on the lists. That's >why a lot of us drive older Benzes. Wait till they're under $20K, and you >get a LOT more car for your money than an under-$20K new car. > >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >89 300CE 85 300DT 97 Z3 1,9 It's amazing the shock non-Benz owners have when looking at an 18 year old 300SD and saying straight faced I want about $6000 for it. :) I try to explain that it cost $38k and change when it was new and that blue book prices range from $6,200 to $7,500... :) As far as value they are pretty incredible. I saw a newer furd explodder along the side of the road for $8,500 looking pretty nice, but was thinking that in 10 years from now it'll be a piece of junk given the same care that the 83 300SD would get... and the 300SD will probably run better given care... of course the paint and the interior would show more signs of age... :) Well, I just washed the 300SD... I think I'll park it up on the highway... :( and then get back to adding the auxillary fuel tank and new rear bumper on SuperDawg... this will be the 2nd Benz he's kicked out of the garage. :) Let's see, the little wagoneer has kicked out 3 now... ;) I may have to wait until my kids move off on their own before I get my 85 300CD though... Insurance costs are killing us. For the 4 vehicles I have insured, only 2 with full coverage, I'm paying $4,300 a year! (well, my kids are paying their share of course... they pay for their own vehicles and school costs... my son got a rude awakening this summer, but he's taking to the work/job/costs process like a duck to water, very proud of him. It might be nice to be able to buy my kids new cars and pay for all their costs and school, but I'm not sure that's the best thing you can do for them. My folks were gonna help me pay for college but I went in the Army and did college while on active duty... working and studying is a lot harder, but I think it's the way it should be done... A free ride would be nice, I guess... Guess in reality I've had an easy ride... ;) not sure what got me going on that tangent... I need to get back outside and get to work. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:17:51 -0700 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: A Turbo Question That sound is almost always a belt or a bearing. Could be an alternator bearing, power steering pump, a/c compressor, or water pump. If you can't identify it, remove the belts one by one, start up the engine each time and goose it. It will be pretty obvious which bearing is dying. Mike Frank 1979 300CD New York At 03:31 PM 9/24/00 -0700, you wrote: >What is going on when I accelerate and hear an extremely horrifying shriek >from the engine compartment? This doesn't sound like belts. It sounds like >the turbo. > >FYI --I did just replace a belt shock and tensioners, could the belts be too >tight? > >Thoughts? ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #400 *********************************