From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #469 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, January 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 469 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #468 Re: a Gwagen! more on the Gelaendewagen engines - hp/torque intros [none] RE: intros Re: intros RE: Compression Test RE: intros RE: intros Re: intros Re: intros Intro RE: intros Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:09:52 -0700 From: "Erik Bien" Subject: Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #468 > >Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:40:58 -0400 > >From: samfans > >Subject: xj: OT - sorry - need Mercedes G wagen help !!! > >Guys and Gals, > >Sorry for the off-topic post, but I didn't know where else to turn. > >I need some help with a potentiallty new to me 1982 Mercedes > >Gelaendewagen (Gwagen) and I figured someone might be able to help, > >point me to someone who can, or even forward this to other folks / lists > >in hopes someon can reply to me and help. > >Situation: A local dealer has come into posession of a 1982 Mercedes > >Gwagen, and the silly buggers want a very reasonable price for it - > >which is killing me. thing is - they are as rare as hens teeth here - > >no one knows anything or can get any parts. So I'm wondering if anyone > >can help with insight, advice, links, help, parts sources, info sources > >etc. I looked long and hard at a couple of these vehicles (a two-door and a four-door) several years ago. Both had enough problems that I felt the asking prices were too high, but ultimately, I found that all G-wagen roads lead to Dave Holland at Holland Motors in New Mexico (Albuquerque? It's been a LOOONG time now.). For a long time he was the only dealer importing them (generally used European units), then maybe 8 years ago I got a post-card from Holland Motors: apparently, Dave had managed to save up enough G-Wagens to crash-test them (absurd, if you've ever crawled underneath one of these trucks -- I even saw one that had hit a garden-shed-sized boulder at highway speed that looked repairable -- but the Feds required it before he could import them as "new"). So, you can now buy a brand-spanking NEW Gelandewagen from Holland Motors ... as I recall, eight or so years ago the "base price" was north of $70K! Yipes! But he's still the guy for parts, manuals, etc. I can't speak to all your observations, but one of the vehicles I examined had a pranged driveshaft that would vibrate at specific speeds: my trusted Benz mechanic convinced me that was enough to pass on the car - -- apparently, a factory replacement shaft is north of $2000! I imagine a driveline shop could fab one for significantly less. By the way if you *WANT* a diesel G-wagen, why not *BUY* a diesel G-wagen? While I didn't drive to Aspen to look it over (I'm in Denver), my G-wagen quest led me to at least one 4-door with a factory diesel: these things are so heavy I think the torquey, unkillable Benz diesels were a popular power option. Again, I don't know this to be fact, but I suspect all G-wagens have manual-locking diffs front and rear. Reading the list of equipment and your description almost makes me wish I'd dug deep enough to buy the CHERRY little low-mileage buckskin-colored 2-door soft-top with the factory winch(!) I drove almost a decade ago ... nothing like a vehicle as tall and narrow as a CJ that carries most of its enormous bulk so low it will actually *SLIDE* down sidehills before even hinting at rollover! But 35 grand seemed luck SUCH a lot of money for a used 4x4 ... (By the by: I'm new here, to learn how to keep my wife's new 85 300SD turbo happy, and get her old beige 82 240D ready to go to a good new home. I played hookey and read the diesel-benz archives for a few hours yesterday, so it looks like I'm in the right place!) - -- Erik ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:08:49 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: a Gwagen! At 10:03 AM 1/6/01 -0400, samfans wrote: >john wrote: > > bill, I'm sending this to my diesel-benz list. >Many thanks > > we've discussed > > the gwagen before, in fact on the diesel-benz page on my server I > > may have a link to them... > > I'd love to get one and drop a Diesel > > into it. > >I don't think anybody's dropping anything into a GWagen. It'd b possibly the >craziest most expensive most custom engine swap ever. Just call AA and see >if they even know what you're talking about. However - there were lots of >Diesel G's produced, so you'd best look for one of those. > >I'm finding it may well be the WORST make ever to try and find parts for in >North America, well, except maybe some eastern European makes !! however, with the lists we have subscribers from all over the world. I know parts have gone from the US to Australlia, and vice versa. Stuff from Europe has found it's way to America and vice versa... :) It's expensive, but doable. Also, it seems like stuff finds it's way to Canada easier than the US, especially with odd ball Benz parts. >Which is just a plain shame -as it is just simply the BEST engineered and >built vehicle I've ever seen - it is really unbelieavable, far better than >anything I've ever seen from the US, Canada, or UK. You should see the frame >- it's like 2 Jeep frames stacked together. I never cease to be amazed at the engineering in my Mercedes Diesels. The automatic climate control, central door locks and cruise control being an exception of overkill run amok that leads to problems when it ages. Simple solutions were bypassed it seems in those systems. :) But the engine, transmission and suspension are masterpieces. :) >Bill > john > > >Subject: xj: OT - sorry - need Mercedes G wagen help !!! > > >Guys and Gals, > > >Sorry for the off-topic post, but I didn't know where else to turn. > > >I need some help with a potentiallty new to me 1982 Mercedes > > >Gelaendewagen (Gwagen) and I figured someone might be able to help, > > >point me to someone who can, or even forward this to other folks / lists > > >in hopes someon can reply to me and help. > > >Situation: A local dealer has come into posession of a 1982 Mercedes > > >Gwagen, and the silly buggers want a very reasonable price for it - > > >which is killing me. thing is - they are as rare as hens teeth here - > > >no one knows anything or can get any parts. So I'm wondering if anyone > > >can help with insight, advice, links, help, parts sources, info sources > > >etc. > > >Details are: > > >1982 G Wagen > > >4 Cyl gas engine > > >4 speed manual > > >fr and rr hydraulic locking diffs > > >140 000 km > > >Specific questions I have so far are: > > >What's it worth? > > >Any idea of mielage? > > >Where on earth does one get parts / a manual?, are they expensive? > > >What are the known problems, areas to watch when buying a used Gwagen? > > >Are any of these things I noticed common problems with easy fixes or > > >what: > > >1) At idle the oil pressure light comes on, but goes away > > >immediately the throttle is blipped - could it be gauge / sender or is > > >it a really bad sighn? > > >2) The brakes work ok for a 2800kg truck - but you really have to get > > >into them (push pedal hard and far) - is this a weakness, or sign of new > > >brakes needed or worse (vaccum booter problem?) > > >3) What are the 4 Transfer case positions labeled S, SA, SA, and GA. > > >I'm guessing they are 2wd, 4wd hi range full time, 4wd high range part > > >time (centre diff locked), and 4wd lo range centre diff locked > > >4) What's the proper shifting procedure for the modes - so I can > > >properly test them all? > > >5) There is a vibration, that feels like driveshaft, at about 110km.h > > >- - is this common? > > >It's in unbelievable condition , built like a tank, 4 wheel coils with > > >radius arms, HUGE box frame, and steering linkage all BEHIND the front > > >axle. > > >Any help is VERY much appreciated. > > >Thanks > > >Bill > > >------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:19:16 -0800 From: john Subject: more on the Gelaendewagen I'm sharing this thread with the Diesel Benz list, the FSJ list and the XJ list (where it started). While the Gelaendewagen by Mercedes-Benz isn't a Jeep, it is part of the DaimlerChrysler family and they do come with Diesels, but not here... :( I'm expanding my horizons, while I know squat about gas powered Mercedes and bobtail Jeeps... I am looking at magazines that contain other types of vehicles, like Land Rovers and GWagens... ;) yeah, like I'm gonna run out and buy one... ...prices start at $130,000... http://www.gwagen.com/welcome.htm http://www.gwagen.com/yes_form.html I have this number in my Palm, talked with them before while tracking down a shop manual, they may have used units: Gwagen USA (888) 538-7672 for those interested in other Mercedes, try the UNIMOG site: http://www.unimogwherehaus.com/trucks.html john At 06:09 AM 1/6/01 -0700, Erik Bien wrote: >I looked long and hard at a couple of these vehicles (a two-door and a >four-door) several years ago. Both had enough problems that I felt the >asking prices were too high, but ultimately, I found that all G-wagen >roads lead to Dave Holland at Holland Motors in New Mexico (Albuquerque? >It's been a LOOONG time now.). For a long time he was the only dealer >importing them (generally used European units), then maybe 8 years ago I >got a post-card from Holland Motors: apparently, Dave had managed to >save up enough G-Wagens to crash-test them (absurd, if you've ever >crawled underneath one of these trucks -- I even saw one that had hit a >garden-shed-sized boulder at highway speed that looked repairable -- but >the Feds required it before he could import them as "new"). So, you can >now buy a brand-spanking NEW Gelandewagen from Holland Motors ... as I >recall, eight or so years ago the "base price" was north of $70K! Yipes! >But he's still the guy for parts, manuals, etc. > >I can't speak to all your observations, but one of the vehicles I >examined had a pranged driveshaft that would vibrate at specific speeds: >my trusted Benz mechanic convinced me that was enough to pass on the car >-- apparently, a factory replacement shaft is north of $2000! I imagine >a driveline shop could fab one for significantly less. By the way if you >*WANT* a diesel G-wagen, why not *BUY* a diesel G-wagen? While I didn't >drive to Aspen to look it over (I'm in Denver), my G-wagen quest led me >to at least one 4-door with a factory diesel: these things are so heavy >I think the torquey, unkillable Benz diesels were a popular power >option. Again, I don't know this to be fact, but I suspect all G-wagens >have manual-locking diffs front and rear. Reading the list of equipment >and your description almost makes me wish I'd dug deep enough to buy the >CHERRY little low-mileage buckskin-colored 2-door soft-top with the >factory winch(!) I drove almost a decade ago ... nothing like a vehicle >as tall and narrow as a CJ that carries most of its enormous bulk so low >it will actually *SLIDE* down sidehills before even hinting at rollover! >But 35 grand seemed luck SUCH a lot of money for a used 4x4 ... > >(By the by: I'm new here, to learn how to keep my wife's new 85 300SD >turbo happy, and get her old beige 82 240D ready to go to a good new >home. I played hookey and read the diesel-benz archives for a few hours >yesterday, so it looks like I'm in the right place!) >-- Erik - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:44:34 -0800 From: john Subject: engines - hp/torque >From: Michael Shimniok >Subject: Re: [fsj: more thinkin' (engine specs)] > > year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current > > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 <-- the benz >Trick, but I'd want more power ... 170 ft-lbs ... that's it?? >Why not use a Dodge diesel drivetrain?? the 5.9L Cummins I-6 is massive, heavy, and extremely noisy. I've heard of one going into a Wagoneer down in Seattle. It was a tight fit. I'd rather find a quieter Diesel. :) > > 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp -at- 4,500 - 224 ft lbs -at- 2,500 <-- little wag > > 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp -at- 4,750 - 225 ft lbs -at- 4,000 <-- first choice ??? >Screamer motor, that 91. But a friend has a 94 or 96 or something, >and it hauls butt. It'd probably even move a J10 respectably well. exactly what I'm thinking. I've hauled my trailer that weighs around 1,400 lbs behind my XJ and the performance was acceptable, comparable to Old Blue. > > 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp -at- 4,400 - 300 ft lbs -at- 3,200 <-- whit's motor > > 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp -at- 4,000 - 300 ft lbs -at- 2,800 > > 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp -at- 3,400 - 270 ft lbs -at- 2,400 >These figures just depress me. Maybe I'll feel better if I finish >my 401/EFI build... no, I'll feel better if I finish the rear main >on the 360 currently in the truck so it'll actually be on the road >again for the 1st time since July. :/ >Michael yeah, I was surprised at the ratings... nothing jumped out at me as bing superior... The idea is to find peak torque at the lowest rpm... I haven't really studied the numbers or sorted 'em out... ttyl, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 12:09:19 -0800 From: john Subject: intros We haven't done this for awhile... lots of new folks. Brief post of who/where/what you are. john meister snohomish, washington '67 J3000 327/3spd/Dana 20 unknown miles (son's) '83 J10 Stepside (SuperDawg) 4.2L/T5/NP208 140,000 miles (MINE) '83 300SD - stock 205,000 miles (for sale) '88 xj wagoneer limited (the little wagoneer) 4L/AW/NP242/OME lift true-trac front/trac lock rear 207,000 miles (wife's ;) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html (also, '67 Fairlane 289/c4 son's and '88 buick regal 2.8L/at daughter's) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:50:17 -0600 From: "MS-KS" Subject: [none] John Nice idea for identification purposes. Marshall Snodgrass Seymour, MO '90 350 SDL '97 F350 Powerstroke diesel 70 HP Zetor Diesel tractor I put amsoil in the Powerstroke today. Also, using diesel modifier, and cetane boost as of today. Will note any changes in the coming weeks. We got our first break from the cold yesterday. It won't last long. I am looking forward to see difference in starts. I am going to put it in the 350 next month. Marshall ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:53:34 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: intros >We haven't done this for awhile... lots of new folks. > Brief post of who/where/what you are. Hi. My name's Alec, and I'm a Benzaholic. Regards, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas Current stable: 95 C280, 116K (?), wife's ride, needs brakes 89 300CE, 118K, mine, needs a tune-up (not used to it after many years with diesels) 85 300DT, ~200K, happily in regular service on extended loan to a friend, this motor refuses to disappoint Dearly departed drives: 80 240D 63 190c nothing Japanese, except an Acura we owned for one night before we went back and said we really did want the 97 Z3 several other German selections 80-something Jeep Wrangler Sahara 83 Chevy 6.2 diesel pickup 91 F-150, straight six, 5-speed, AM/FM/cassette, A/C, otherwise a basic hose-out truck with a vinyl bench seat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:01:02 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: intros Hi. Vernon Tuck. Texan Junk Car Junkie. Judiciary Interpreter of Spanish/English. Technical translator of Spanish, Portuguese, English. http://www.tucklings.com. Owner of so many old cars I've forgotten where I parked some of 'em. I list below only the diesels. 1980 2 door rabbit; 1981 4 door rabbit; 1982 2 door rabbit; 1982 Quantum coupe (looks like a Scirocco on steroids); 1982 Maxima 6 cylinder diesel; auto trans; 1983 rabbit pickup; 1984 4 door Jetta; 1983 Quantum wagon; 1986 Ford E-350 (one ton) "Club Wagon" with 6.9L International V-8 diesel; 1976 Mercedes 240-D; trans missing. 1979 Mercedes 200-D 4 speed standard; 1980 Mercedes 240-D 4 speed standard; 1981 Mercedes 240-D auto trans; I think that covers all the diesels. List subject to change without notice. Regards, Vernon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:37:00 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Jacobs Subject: RE: Compression Test If you have never had an oil analysis for your engine, and at 181K miles, it would be reassuring to me to know that nothing was wrong inside of that beast. It would also give you a reference for comparing future analysis so you can get a feel for the rate of wear in your beloved diesel motion machine. Diesel Dan, your "Hey guys my oil analysis says mine is so good, you can drink it!" man in where ever the hell I am right now, WA - ------Original Message------ From: "Alec Cordova" To: Thomas Parsons , diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sent: January 5, 2001 6:40:29 PM GMT Subject: RE: Compression Test With your description of how the motor runs, you probably won't get too much information from a compression test ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:36:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Jacobs Subject: RE: intros HOWDY FOLKS! I'm Diesel Dan, and I live in Vancouver, WA. I don't like hockey and Moosehead beer, that's the OTHER Vancouver. I own a 1979 300D, a 1986 Ford Explorer (with suicide Firestone tires on it YAAAAHOOOOOO!), a 1983 Honda Gold Wing (if it came with a diesel engine I'd buy one of those, too!), a cheap bicycle I bought at Costco a couple years back, and the neighbors big ol' dog when I can get a saddle on him. He really likes it when I ride him around the neighborhood. He starts running with every ounce of energy he's got and when he sees those little kids on those little aluminum skateboard thingies, well he just........ Oh, uh, excuse me. I forgot what we were talking about. Old age, I guess. Oh, yeah! What am I! My grandfather was a diesel mechanic/engineer/HVAC/electrician/plumber/radio man/radar/refrigeration/everything that needed to be done on board a tuna boat 5,000 miles from home. Unfortunately, he passed before I could learn very much from him. What I mean is my motorcycle was broken down on the side of the freeway, and he passed me by like I wasn't even there! Well, we all knew he had bad eyes, but what was he doing driving grandma's car with the dog in the passenger seat? They never did find grandpa. Just the old '79 MBZ (grandma's car) out in the woods next to a field with a very elaborate crop circle and an unsigned note that said "I'm going home to be with Elvis and all those poor people that bought Yugos as an investment". We believe my grandpa wrote that note. He always did say that Yugos were the Bic lighter of the automobile industry. "Use 'em up, throw them away in the trash" he always said. Sometimes I drive around the greater Portland area, and I wonder if that Yugo parked at the curb is there because that's where it's always parked, or did the owner put it out a couple of days early for curbside recycling? I guess that makes me a truck driver that hasn't worked since 12-14-2000 because I injured my left arm lifting 50K pounds every week for people that could care less as long as there load wasn't late (in their eyes). Hope you enjoyed this useless waste of precious energy resources as much as I did. Diesel Dan, your "Hey! Who turned out the lights!!" man in Vancouver, Washigton. - ------Original Message------ From: john Sent: January 6, 2001 8:09:19 PM GMT Subject: intros We haven't done this for awhile... lots of new folks. Brief post of who/where/what you are. - ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 01:36:47 -0500 From: "Chris Straut" Subject: RE: intros My turn! I'm Chris Straut, and I live in Bridgeport, West Virginia. I drive a white '85 300D that you can see at http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Cars/85-300D-Chris-Straut/ . The car has 87k miles on it. My new wheels (16" MB ATP Type 8) and tires are not shown in that picture. I assure you, it looks much better now :) I'm also a car stereo fanatic. I have over $2000+ worth of equipment in my Benz, and have done all of the install work myself. The system sounds very nice, and makes driving much more pleasurable during long trips. If you ever have a question regarding W123 or W126 car stereo, drop me a line! Later, Chris Straut '85 300D, 87k - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 3:09 PM To: Recipient list suppressed Subject: intros We haven't done this for awhile... lots of new folks. Brief post of who/where/what you are. john meister snohomish, washington '67 J3000 327/3spd/Dana 20 unknown miles (son's) '83 J10 Stepside (SuperDawg) 4.2L/T5/NP208 140,000 miles (MINE) '83 300SD - stock 205,000 miles (for sale) '88 xj wagoneer limited (the little wagoneer) 4L/AW/NP242/OME lift true-trac front/trac lock rear 207,000 miles (wife's ;) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html (also, '67 Fairlane 289/c4 son's and '88 buick regal 2.8L/at daughter's) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:46:03 -0800 From: JFARRAH Subject: Re: intros Hi - Jim here - First time diesel driver - six months with a 1985 300TD 89K - well maintained and so far everything works and looks like new - After many years and many miles (330K) with a 5spd Volvo 245GLT, it's a dramatic change. Both have their strong points and unique character. The jury is still out but I'm leaning toward the Benz. Watercolorist and automotive artist from Mesa "we don't need no stinkin' blockheater" Arizona. Trivia question - why is there no red line on the tach? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:54:31 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: intros At 11:46 PM 1/6/01 -0800, JFARRAH wrote: >Trivia question - why is there no red line on the tach? red line? red line? rofl... red line! why? just kidding. no need for a redline because you're not going to make it go faster than it's supposed to because it's mechanically governed. Of course it might be possible to overspeed it... but you'd have to work kind of hard at it... :) Oh, the other reason is there are little marks on your speedometer that come in handy for those italian tune-ups... ;) You may not realize it but you start out in second gear... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:37:47 -0800 From: Richard Barnaby Subject: Intro Rich Had new 79 300 SD in 79 (Dk Blue/Tan Leather) at height of 2nd "oil crisis" Put in 2nd fuel tank in trunk 40 gal at 25 mpg = 1,000 mi range Drove from LA to VT, filled up east of Alberquerque, Missouri, Pennsylvania Drove 18 hours a day. Piece of cake. No lines at Truck stops for diesels. One day, while waiting for service, another guy with a 79 6.9 gave me a ride in his car. I sold the diesel, bought the 6.9. Very fast, *beautiful* car( Dark blue, tan leather, burl wood, wood steering wheel) Paid for complete suspension redo (about $28K) :-( and paid the gas station at 8 MPGS :-( Few years later, sold the 6.9 to a Canadian Collector for $30,000 (he had 5 of them) He couldn't import it into Canada, asked me to resell it. Sold it to a Hollywood Producer for $35,000, and split the profit over $30,000 with the Canadian collector. Decided I liked the Diesel, bought another 300SD 79 (Yellow/Tan) and have had it ever since. New engine JUST put in (Factory complete engine, about $8K installed) w/ 2 yr warranty. Having problems with the fuel injection, so it spends a lot of time at the dealership under warranty. I plan to repaint and reupholster this car, and keep it another 20 years. I was able to get true "stated value" policy on a non-show car from CNA. Policy is a little higher than you would normally pay, but I have a stated, appraised value with the new engine at $26,000 (I've redone the suspension as well) Just got my "high mileage awards" for the car, and driver. Don't know where I'd ever wear the pin though. Wonder what a 40 year old 300SD will be worth in 2019. I hope to find out. Occupation: Ex CPA/computer guy, now having fun on ebay. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:10:49 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: intros >You may not realize it but you start out in second gear... :) Not in an 85 TD. My 85 300D sedan always uses all four gears. In fact, I believe for 1985 MB changed the stall speed of the torque converter to better match the power characteristics of the 617 turbodiesel motor. I think the 1986 W124 300E was the beginning of the "start in 2nd" trannies. I know my 89 300CE does it, and it actually has helped when taking off from a stop light on a slight incline in the rain. Alec ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #469 *********************************