From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #475 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, January 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 475 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: back to normal 350 sdl Re: 350 sdl RE: Whew, now that the list is back... Re: Whew, now that the list is back... RE: Whew, now that the list is back... RE: Whew, now that the list is back... filters/traps Re: 14" Amsoil air filter? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:56:48 -0800 From: john Subject: back to normal i hereby resign as major dumbo alternate... ;) all systems normal. y'all can forward your own messages again. the temporary email cc lists have been deleted... I'm in digest mode on all three lists (FSJ, XJ and Diesel-Benz) resuming life... thank you richard welty. we love you man. you are awesome. anybody have any unused system mother boards or CPU's laying around you might consider sending them to richard... I'm sure we have some scrap systems laying around that are faster than 166 Mhz...:) (not that 166 Mhz is a problem with Linux, because it's not... you wouldn't believe how fast ME10 worked on a P90!!! (jim blair has that system now). john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:05:56 -0600 From: "Kristin Snodgrass" Subject: 350 sdl I have a 90 350 SDL and it is doing very well despite the general consensus that it is one to avoid. I also know of another person near my office with a 91 350 sdl and has not had truoubles with it. ?????????? It is enough to make one wonder Marshall
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------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:27:43 -0500 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: Re: 350 sdl The failure is quite sudden when it happens I think, and otherwise they are fine cars. There is some oil deprivation strangeness that can end up in a bent conrod on number one cylinder. I spoke to some guys a while back who had a fix for it which was modifying some oilway or something, but I cannot remember exactly what it was. They were a dealer in South NJ somewhere, I might be able to dig up more details if people want them. Bending a diesel conrod is not an easy thing to do. And not a good thing. SDB On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Kristin Snodgrass wrote: |I have a 90 350 SDL and it is doing very well despite the general consensus |that it is one to avoid. I also know of another person near my office with a |91 350 sdl and has not had truoubles with it. | |?????????? | |It is enough to make one wonder | |Marshall
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| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:15:07 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: RE: Whew, now that the list is back... On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Dan Jacobs wrote: > If you need (remember, environmentalists only buy larger vehicles bevause > they have a true _need_ ;-) a larger car, I would go with one of Honda's > ULEV rated cars (The Accord, for example). Rumor has it that VW will be offering a TDI Passat Wagon in the US this year. If I were in the market for a new car.... - -john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:22:28 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: Whew, now that the list is back... On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, John D. Shelton wrote: > sometimes seems to be a dirty word with diesel folks. While I drive a diesel > (a 99 Jetta TDI) I still have huge reservations about a Benz diesel. Before > I actually buy one I need to know if there is anything that can be done to > clean up the exhaust of a diesel. For example, my TDI has two catalytic > converters and never smokes. I'm one of the few diesel enthusiasts who are > excited about the new regulations requiring the clean-up of diesel fuel. Pretty much all you can do is put a particulate trap on. The ones MB initially used were a bad deal, but the technology has improved a lot. The other tradeoff is the EGR. Without it you get more NOx, with it you get more particulates. This may only be an option on the older (eg, 617) engines. If I understand correctly, the EGR is more intimately tied with the rest of the engine control on the newer models. I don't know what VW is using for the catalytic converters, but my understanding was the high sulfer content in US diesel was a major problem with making converters that work with diesel exhaust. Anybody know the story on that? (I had a whole shelf of books checked out on diesel emissions technology, but when the overdue fines started rolling in....) - -john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:31:43 -0700 From: John Bathory Subject: RE: Whew, now that the list is back... I do remember test driving a TDI in 97. At that time the exhaust had one catalytic converter and also another device which was basically an after burner. Any particulates not caught in the catalytic converter was then burned. If you followed one of those cars you could on occasion see the flames in the exhaust pipe or so I was told anyways. This coupled with the direct injection setup provided for extremely green combustion. - -----Original Message----- From: John Fieber [mailto:jfieber-at-indiana.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 9:22 AM To: John D. Shelton Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Whew, now that the list is back... On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, John D. Shelton wrote: > sometimes seems to be a dirty word with diesel folks. While I drive a diesel > (a 99 Jetta TDI) I still have huge reservations about a Benz diesel. Before > I actually buy one I need to know if there is anything that can be done to > clean up the exhaust of a diesel. For example, my TDI has two catalytic > converters and never smokes. I'm one of the few diesel enthusiasts who are > excited about the new regulations requiring the clean-up of diesel fuel. Pretty much all you can do is put a particulate trap on. The ones MB initially used were a bad deal, but the technology has improved a lot. The other tradeoff is the EGR. Without it you get more NOx, with it you get more particulates. This may only be an option on the older (eg, 617) engines. If I understand correctly, the EGR is more intimately tied with the rest of the engine control on the newer models. I don't know what VW is using for the catalytic converters, but my understanding was the high sulfer content in US diesel was a major problem with making converters that work with diesel exhaust. Anybody know the story on that? (I had a whole shelf of books checked out on diesel emissions technology, but when the overdue fines started rolling in....) - -john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:32:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: RE: Whew, now that the list is back... On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, John Bathory wrote: > I do remember test driving a TDI in 97. At that time the exhaust had one > catalytic converter and also another device which was basically an after > burner. Any particulates not caught in the catalytic converter was then > burned. What you described sounds like a trap oxidizer, not a catalytic converter. Particulates must be caught, hence the particulate trap. Traps are effective at catching the little guys, but then you have to do something with them. That is the oxidizer part of the "trap oxidizer". The general strategy is to burn them somehow, and has been the focus of a lot of trial and error in designs, witness the permanent recall on the early MB trap oxidizers. The catalytic converter isn't for dealing with particulates; In gasoline cars it chemically converts CO and NOx into supposedly less harmful molecules, most notably CO2. Or more cynically, it converts tightly regulated emissions into more loosely regulated emissions. In terms of the environmental big picture, it isn't much of a net win. My understanding of catalytic converters on diesel engines is that the sulfur messes up the chemical processes that go on. Also, the lower exhaust temperature may be problematic. (Remember, a catalytic converter does nothing until it heats up!) Most of the emissions reduction progress in diesel engines is from improving combustion through head and injector design, and finer control of the injection volume and timing. Consequently there isn't a lot you can do to upgrade an old engine. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:48:24 -0500 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: filters/traps On the subject of particulate trap for diesel exhausts: Does everybody know those cyclone vacuum cleaners? My mother has one now. Well, when I first saw those on the TV in the 80s, the inventor also had a design for a diesel particulate trap. It was a cyclonic deal that was part of the exhaust system. You had to empty it now and then but of course that just allowed you to see how much black goo you had caught. Whatever happened to that idea, and might it be possible to make your own? SDB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:45:43 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 14" Amsoil air filter? At 06:06 PM 1/17/01 -0600, you wrote: >John, does Amsoil make a 14" element, for performance type housings? >Lindel the stock filter is the TS-23, it will work fine with the Edelbrock 1406, that's what I used on Old Blue. But, if you're going to go with one of them fancy chrome jobs here's the way the specs are listed to help you measure what you need: DIMENSIONS: a) cage height b) cage inside diameter c) outside diameter example, the stock filter for the AMC v8 has the following dimensions: TS-23 a) 2.625 b) 8.00 c) 9.625 the stock AMC 4.2L filter is: TS-12 a) 2.00 b) 8.250 c) 9.875 target diameter of 14" (if you get me an equivalent FRAM number I may be able to cross it... I did this on one of my Mercedes. The cheapest paper element I could find (a "flag" brand) was close to $50, so I crossed the Fram number and found a close fit and ordered the Amsoil equivalent, it fit well enough to seal and retailed for around $23. It cost me less than the cheapest paper element I could find!!!! :) So, we should be able to find a generic crossover with a little work in the FRAM master catalog and the amsoil catalog... FILTER a b c price, retail ================================================ TS92 1.750 11.125 14.00 $47.50 (crosses to fram ca7007, what's this on?) S1338 3.125 14.00 16.125 $26.20 (special order, may not be available...) TS25 3.875 12.125 13.750 $32.30 (used in most of the 5.7L/6.2L Diesels) there are more special order versions with varying heights... again, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine with the stock air cleaner on the 1406, that's one sweet Weber carb... yeah, I know, it says Edelbrock on it, but look closely and you'll see the W. :) If I was going to do another carb that is my first choice on a V8. Holleys suck... gas and just in general... :) I've yet to meet a Holley that I liked. Since I haven't done the homework for the filter in my '83 300SD yet, here's the process. 1) find the Fram #, CA3725 2) find dimensions and info from Fram catalog: style 121, pg 984 shows a tall, normal looking a/f. :) used 78-87 mercedes benz (p/n 0020940404) a) 4-13/64" height b) 8-3/4" ID c) 12-1/16" OD 3) take that info and attempt to cross to Amsoil catalog: the height is somewhat critical on the '83 300SD Turbo Diesel, the other dimensions are more flexible, except the ID of course, 13/64 is about .2 inches... so we're in the 4 to 4.5 inch range, how about the TS38??: a) 4.625 will scrunch down, the cage inside may be bent to fit b) 8.5 a little tight, will tend to ride up on the airhorn... c) 11.375 TS38 retails for $32.50, try again... ;) hey look at this: a) 4.00 b) 8.875 c) 10.50 S1118, wait, that's the one spec'd! :) retails for $32.50... wow, same as the other one... The dimensions aren't critical because the filter will pack down nicely and help to seal the lid and the base. There would not be a problem with stacking two together or placing something in the air cleaner to raise it up, so long as it seals. This reminds me... my son just got a "new" '67 Fairlane, his birthday is coming up, I should get him an amsoil air filter as part of his bday present... (picked up a bunch of literature on it off of ebay. ;) sorry for going so long, but it was longer on this end and involved a lot of page turning and three or four books... ;) I didn't even get into the Planar style filters used in the XJ's. Or Pod filters like used on lawnmowers and m/c's... been wanting to figure out a custom snorkel setup for my Xj. :) Need a monster pod filter... or maybe a series of planar filters... :) mix n matchin'... if it don't fit you need a bigger hammer... ;) later, john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/ http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-2.jpg FS JEEPs: V8 360/401 use: TS-23 I-6 258 uses: TS-12 retail $21.50 xj JEEPS: 4.0L/2.5L('87 and up) uses: TS-29 retail $29.95 DieselBenz varies: typical S1118 or S1680 retail $32.50 or $39.85 http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ To order 1-800-956-5695 customer# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #475 *********************************