From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #479 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, January 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 479 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: [Fwd: Things that go "Bang!"] (Re-Post) Re: if... Re: algae Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? RE: Mercedes and other. RE: if... RE: if... Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Re: IPF lights fuel costs, and why propane isn't good... Re: fuel costs, and why propane isn't good... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:02:32 -0600 From: Jim & Barb Hoffman Subject: [Fwd: Things that go "Bang!"] (Re-Post) Jim & Barb Hoffman wrote: > Well folks yesterday was an interesting day.... > > It warmed up to almost freezing so I thought I'd go out and look > for grounding problems on the 240D. She hadn't been run for a > few weeks but she started right up without being plugged in. A > good sign I thought. The drive was covered with ice all around the > car so I backed it down the drive a little. Heard an unusual "grinding" > noise coming from the front left wheel. I pulled forward again and > it got louder. I looked underneath and only saw my saging exhaust > system so figured it was that. Tried to pull forward a little more and > the grinding got louder and I could fell a drag being put on the drive > train. All of a sudden there was a loud BANG! and the front left > side of the car dropped a few inches! WHAT THE %#$-at-#?!?!?! > I get out of the car and look underneath.... There is the front coil > spring laying on the ground!!!!! How the H#$-at--at-$ does the > coil spring fly out of the car?!?!? This car is getting VERY > discouraging... :( Anyone have any thoughts on why this would > happen? > > I was just trying to get the car up on some ramps to clean the > ground connection between the frame and engine. Now I'll need > to jack it up... it's too low to get at the ramp! > > Hope you guys are having more fun with your MB's!!! > > Jim/ > > '83 240D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:00:18 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: if... At 01:54 PM 1/22/01 -0600, Jim & Barb Hoffman wrote: >Ok... where do I get these "European headlights"?? performance products? star magazine? >Did you get my post about "Things that go BANG!?" I'm supprised >that I got NO comments on that one... I didn't see it... what went bang? :) john >Jim/ > >john wrote: > > > If I were to keep my 300SD (mainly because no one seems interested > > in buying it and someone has taken a fancy to superdawg...) > > > > Here's my current wish list: > > > > 1) get rid of the algae ;) > > (lex called today, suggested the stuff they sell at walmart, heading > > over there in a few minutes... :) > > 2) MANUAL heater/ac controls > > 3) European headlights > > > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:28:03 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Jacobs Subject: Re: algae If there are people out there that live next to one of those cardlock fuel sites, and you have problems with getting inferior fuel or contaminated fuel, you could try Pacific Pride, or CFN. These places usually sell quite a bit of fuel, so the stuff doesn't collect water and crud, unless their tanks leak. I get my fuel at Jubitz truck stop in Portland, OR, using the Pacific Pride cardlock system, and I get billed every month by a company in Newport, OR. _NEVER_ a problem with the fuel from jubitz truck stop. They recently opened some car fuel islands on the west side of the truck stop, but I still use the BIG truck pumps, They have the card reader. Diesel Dan, your "waiting in line behind 200 trucks for fuel" man in Vancouver, U-Know-Where - ------Original Message------ From: Al Potter To: john Sent: January 22, 2001 4:56:50 AM GMT Subject: Re: algae john-at-virtual-cafe.com said: > I did get some of the Diesel Fuel Additive, 2.97 or something like > that, and the Marvel Mystery oil... didn't see any algae stuff... Well, read the labes on what IS there.... some of it has anti-algae schtuff in it. I _think_ I'm using Howes, not sure. When in real need, stop at a truck stop. (There's probably a parable there.....) > Of course it'll take me about two weeks of daily driving to burn > off the 3/4 tank I have now That may be more of the problem. My mechanic tells me this happens most often when the car isn't driven regularly, or when the fuel is from somewhere that doesn't turn have a lot of sales volume. So run it empty, or drain the tank, clean `er out, use anti-algae additive, consider changing where you buy fuel, and if you don't drive it a lot, quit filling the tank. I inherited the problem when we bought our latest, an 83 300CD with (then) 58k original miles. Once we got the gunk cleaned out (took two trips in to the shop), we've have no problems. AL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:31:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Jacobs Subject: Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? Which list did I sign up for, anyway? Diesel Dan, your "When did Mercedes start makin' Jeeps?" man in Vancouver, south of Jeep-crazy-John WA - ------Original Message------ From: john Sent: January 22, 2001 5:03:33 AM GMT Subject: Re: fsj: fuel efficient 4x4s??? At 12:00 AM 1/22/01 -0500, Chris wrote: > I've looked at the stickers on some of the new small-size 4X4s and I'm >always AMAZED... They're getting like 15 in town and MAYBE 20 on the >freeway... So, I don't think that a fuel efficient 4X4/transportation >vehicle exists at the moment... Not in the U.S. anyway. >Chris well, if I get SuperDawg running properly, and then fuel injected, he'll do that... I'm wondering if a 4.0L in a Cherokee Chief will get the same mileage as I could with a J10. I just don't understand why Jeep or Mercedes doesn't at least offer a Diesel setup in their line... I mean they sell 'em overseas... what is it with the US, has California ruined it for us?? john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:09:01 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: RE: Mercedes and other. I noticed that the W123 "American" style headlights still live on today in another form. Have you ever noticed the newer Freightliner "Century" Class semi's? They have virtually the same headlights as the American W123's... even the lights closer to the grille are amber too! Perhaps Mercedes wanted the W123 to live on in the Freightliner? Freightliner IS owned by Daimler-Benz after all... or maybe it's just a coincidence... Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: Mercedes and other. >Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:09:43 -0800 > >Personally, I kind of like the look of the US headlights on a W123. I don't >think I'm alone, since many of us were quite happy when they finally >returned to the 4-headlight look. Granted, the lighting pattern of the US >lights stinks, but that's nothing some Hella or Cibie motorcycle lights >won't fix as a drop-in upgrade. ;-) > >As to the extra bulb position in the taillights, that's for a rear >foglight. >Required in many countries other than the US; some demand it be on the >left, >others expect it on the right, don't think anybody demands a pair. Notice >how your headlight switch will pull out one notch for your front fogs, but >it can also pull out a second notch? And that silly little orange dot in >the >center of the switch? That would be how you turn on the rear fog light, and >how the car reminds you that it is illuminated. > >Gotta go, >Alec > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] >On Behalf Of chris-at-califormula.com >Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:52 AM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Mercedes and other. > >I thank you guys freezing to death. >All I do is complain about San Diego. Its really nice here. Weather wise. >John can come down if he don't mind going to Pentecostal Church with me. >Only one car per person here. Or $120 each per month storage fees... >My 1981 300D is great. I like it as much as my 1981 300SD that I sold. >Locks worked better on the SD though. Mine are very intermittent. >One day all works fine. next day none unlock till I'm a mile down the >road. >I think I make the system mad by manually lifting the right front to >take my son to school. If I'm alone all seems fine. touch that right >door and you have upset the vacuum system. I unlocked the right door >for my wife one night from the outside with the key. Car got so mad >locks didn't work for 4 days. then all started working again. Today >all is fine. >I have a question. I know nobody will sell me European Headlights. >I'm almost ready to give up on locating a set. On the taillights on >my U.S. Spec. car there is a hole for a bulb closest to the license >plate or toward center if that makes sense. In a REAL country what >are those bulb holders for? I know we don't need them here in >Commifornia 'cause I never see any in the junk yards with a bulb in >this position. I was hoping someone on the list had a REAL Mercedes >and could tell me what these are. I looked for a year for a Grey >Market car before I bought this one. I only got it because the >engine is new. I have the $4700 in receipts. $2400 for the whole >car the try and recoup some of the shops money 'cause the customer >didn't have the 47 hundred so relinquished the title instead. Now I >have to look all over the world to get parts to put it like a REAL >Benz... I installed the Km speedo. I need to change the left guage. >And the thing under the guages that has fasten seat belts and brake >written on it. Then change antenna switch and brake release. Then >all English will be removed from inside my car. Headlights and >bumpers will cost more than the car is worth, but its a TOAD without >them. Ugly U.S. lights. >Anyone got any REAL car parts let me know... >Chris in Sandy Eggo... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:20:06 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: RE: if... I'm sure the FSJ MAY have a better ride... and I love Jeeps too... but those FSJ's were junk. I've worked on a few (my brother had 2 of them) and they were VERY poorly built. Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: john >To: "Chris Straut" >CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: if... >Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:12:08 -0800 > >At 10:20 PM 1/21/01 -0500, Chris Straut wrote: >>I'm sure someone has asked this before, but why wouldn't you want to keep >>a >>nice 300SD around? You gotta admit, it's much better ride than a Jeep for >>those long trips! > >actually, no. The Full Size Jeep, when set up properly, is much more >comfortable on the road. You have great visibility and the ride is very >nice, >remember, it's body on frame with large tires... The problem is the >economic >implications of prolonged FSJ use... Old Blue was lucky to see 13mpg... :) > > >>By the way, do you have any information on manual heater/ac conversions? > >I heard there were some kits available... what it may have been is >retrofitting >the controls with an earlier model, which I'll happily do... Even when the >climate control works as described in the owner's manual it's a pathetic >setup... it's noisy, blasts you in defrost mode... doesn't respond >immediately >to temp changes on the dial or in the cabin... > >>The automatic climate control in my 300D works well at the moment, but I >>expect that situation will change after a few years when I start to put >>some >>real mileage on the car. I'd be interested to see how it is done. > >not sure what the secret is, except normal constant use... the times I've >let my benz's sit, is the time things acted up... > >they are meant to be used... > > >>Those european headlights really look sharp. I plan on buying a set for >>my >>300D in a few months. Along with the new 16" Mercedes ATP Type-8 wheels >>that I got this Christmas, I think it's going to look great. > >the standard headlights on my 300SD, even with the halogen sealed beams >is pathethic compared to my IPF's that I had on Fritz or have on my other >Jeeps. I can only imagine that the European lights will be so much better, >and perhaps better than the IPFs, Hellas or bosch replacments for the US >lamps. > >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:23:13 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: RE: if... I purchased the Euro healights for my W126 and they are stunning! I love them. I only have the standard 55W/60W bulbs and it illuminates well. I can imagine how much better it would be with more powerful bulbs! :) Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >>Those european headlights really look sharp. I plan on buying a set for >>my >>300D in a few months. Along with the new 16" Mercedes ATP Type-8 wheels >>that I got this Christmas, I think it's going to look great. > >the standard headlights on my 300SD, even with the halogen sealed beams >is pathethic compared to my IPF's that I had on Fritz or have on my other >Jeeps. I can only imagine that the European lights will be so much better, >and perhaps better than the IPFs, Hellas or bosch replacments for the US >lamps. > >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:27:52 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? You had a Turbo Diesel XJ? Cool beans! I'd like to get my hands on one of those. I had 3 XJ's, and they were good trucks... I then got a ZJ Grand Cherokee... fantastic vehicle and blows the XJ away off-road... They did a great job on the ZJ! :) Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: john >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >Subject: fuel efficient 4x4s??? >Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:31:43 -0800 > >I know a few of you have 4x4's that aren't Jeeps... while I'll >argue hard and long that a Jeep is the best rig off road, especially >when set up properly, and most FSJ and XJs do a great job of reaching >a good compromise for on road use... but neither are fuel efficient >in the grand scheme of things... (unless you get a 2.1L Turbo Diesel >or 2.5 L xj... or maybe a good 4.2L setup...) anyway... > >I'm trying to think outside the box a bit... broaden my horizons... >consider >something other than a Jeep or a Mercedes... > >now before you call 911 and have me carted off for a mental evaluation... >I'm >just exploring ideas... I think one ride in a non-jeep vehicle of the >4x4 persuasion will have me running back for the little wagoneer or >Superdawg... > >But, I'm curious... are these little rigs from asia like fuel efficient to >the >point they'd make a good commuter? Will they have a nice ride? I know >they >won't do as well as a Jeep off road, but how often do I get off road, >especially >since most of the areas I used to wheel are now gated... :( > >Anyway, if SuperDawg should be sold to that guy in belgium, I'll be >replacing >him with an '80 Cherokee Chief, but thinking about a little econobox 4x4 >for >getting back and forth to work... remember, this is just a mental >exercise... >and remember too, it'll have to be an older rig too... If I'm gonna pay >any >money of any amount, it'll be for a newer Jeep... ;) > >A VW TDI would be nice too, but I don't like being that low to the ground >anymore... even my 300SD sits a bit low, but it doesn't feel so bad since >there is so much of it around me... :) > >See, Jeep and / or Mercedes could solve this dilema for me if they'd just >stick a Turbo Diesel in their 4x4s... :) I had an '85 xj with the TD... >kind of wish I would have kept it... it was a nice setup... 26 to 32 >mpg... > >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:32:07 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? I agree. I have a '95 Grand Cherokee with the hi-output 4.0L and I get around 22-24mpg on the highway holding 72mph. However if you get Quadra-Trac on the JGC I understand the mileage goes down a tick... Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: john >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >Subject: Re: fuel efficient 4x4s??? >Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:16:35 -0800 > >At 12:12 AM 1/22/01 -0500, Don Campbell wrote: >>Have you considered a Jeep with the 4.0L motor.. I have a 93 Grand >>Cherokee (4spd auto and the 4.0) that I commute to work in (120mile round >>trip) and I see 24mpg, and I drive 75+mph.. My father has a 89 Cherokee >>4.0 / 5spd and gets 25mpg on the highway.. We both get around 18-20 in the >>city.. > >wow... I'm getting about 16 mpg with my 88 xj wagoneer limited... best >I've ever seen with it is about 19mpg... >of course it does have 207,000 miles, a lift kit, larger tires and >4.10s... :) > >I still think that a 4.0L in my '83 J10 is the way to go. It's a nice >motor, >and I have heard of others locally getting 24 mpg with it... > >I must have a heavy foot... :) Living in Europe all those years >affected my driving habits... > >>If you think about it, my ZJ Jeep costs less to drive than my 82 300D >>Turbo does.. Once I fixed all the fuel leaks (rotted fuel lines, but what >>can you expect after 265K) in the benz the best it got was 27mpg and >>locally there's a ~20 cent price difference for diesel (1.37 Reg Unleaded >>to 1.60 for diesel).. My benz has never really saved me money, I remember >>last year when it was cheaper to drive my 91 Nissan 300zx twin turbo >>getting 22mpg using 93 octane than it was to drive the benz.. > >yeah, what's with the Diesel prices anyway? I can remember when Diesel >was like .19/gal and gas was .59. Even a few years ago Diesel was usually >.10 to .20 less than gas... must be the californians again... ;) > > >>Even though my benz is the only diesel I currently own I am still a big >>fan of diesels.. The 6.2L diesel from chevy was a solid motor, my father's >>86 chevy pickup w/ 4spd auto and 2.73 gears averages 24mpg and has over >>200K on the motor.. Chevy made a good motor with the 6.2/6.5, the just >>coupled it to a weak automatic tranny the 700R4, ours had been rebuilt >>before we got the truck and its still going 80k later.. It will be >>interesting to see how the new DuraMax Diesel from chevy is going to work >>out.. >> >>Another good motor is the 5.9L Cummings Turbo Diesel in the Dodge RAMs, >>the engine compartment is wide open and the I6 motor is very easy to work >>on.. Plus there are bolt on performance goodies to boost the 165hp/200+ft >>pound of torque to something insane like 300hp/700ft pounds of torque.. >>-Don > >the cummins Diesel is so massive, so noisy, and so overbearing that I can't >even consider it as a swap item... and I couldn't imagine owning another >Dodge... >I had one... they're ok... > >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:18:07 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: IPF lights At 12:05 AM 1/23/01 -1000, Alan Chung wrote: >Hey John > Thanks! I got on the phone with Bill VT, got the headlamp >units for $28, the Magic J-bulbs for $59, and the wiring harness for >$83. But the only thing is I have to wait, they are on 3 week back >order...hopefully worth the wait. Was the wiring harness pretty easy >to install btw? ttyl > >Mahalo Alan The wiring harness was a snap to install. I had no trouble with my J10 and only a little problem with my little wagoneer because of the tree incident, the battery tray area isn't 100%. :) On my Mercedes and on mark's old J3000 I had to drill out the headlight buckets to get the connector through. Pictures at: general IPF info: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/IPF/ the J10 installation: (will be about the same for your xj) http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/IPF/H4-lamps/All-the-pix.html the J3000 installation: (similar to what my 300D would have been) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Wiring/H4-harness-67-J3000/ My 300D needed to be drilled (didn't do it) and on my 300SD I don't think I'll need to... Thanx for getting the prices. I need to get the rectangular lamps for my 300SD if I keep it... (considering the European style headlights... much more money, but they look cooler, and I'll run the IPF bulbs. :) I'm going to post this to the list along with Central's toll free and have them contact Bill Van Tuyl. These prices are much better than the list prices from a year ago. 1-800-829-9599 bill - central 4x4 - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:57:25 -0800 From: john Subject: fuel costs, and why propane isn't good... Did some research this morning... called my propane supplier, he's well versed in the propane world, has a couple conversions he owns... bottom line, propane produces about 10% less power at the rear wheels, and you can see as much as 25% loss in economy. Here are the current local prices, and then an analysis of my commute and costs comparing my '83 J10 with my '83 300SD. (My '88 xj is just about the same as my J10, 14 to 16 mpg. I'm using lower mileage figures to make it more realistic.) =========================================================== Fuel Costs January 23, 2001 Everett - Mill Creek - Snohomish areas (Washington State) - - regular unleaded - Shell Mill Creek - $1.439 - - "premium" Diesel - Texaco Clearview - $1.79 - - PROPANE - bottle refill - Everett - $1.90 - - PROPANE - motor fuel - Everett - $1.683 - - PROPANE - home delivery - Snohomish - $1.82 So, if I drive 800 miles a month, this is how it breaks out: J10 300SD J10 - LPG (25% less economy, est. by propane guy) MPG: 14 24 10.5 GALLONS 57.1 33.3 76.2 cost $82.23 $59.67 $128.23 roughly $83 for the J10 on unleaded, and $128 (or maybe less) on propane, (even if the mileage was the same it would be: $96.17, but I'd still see around 10% power loss, and up to 25% less fuel economy with propane!) If I get the mileage on the J10 up to around 20mpg, then my fuel costs drop to $57.56. This isn't too far fetched if I can fuel inject it or get a decent carb. I should be able to get it up to 17 to 18 mpg without too much expense... and a lighter foot. If I can get the algae problem resolved on my 300SD and drive it economically (rofl), I could do 26 mpg and spend about: $55.08 My worst mileage with the big benz is mid 23, typical around 24 mpg, that's in town, pedal down... So, it looks like with Diesel prices coming down a bit that driving my 300SD is more economical. (My xj, with 207,000 miles, only gets around 14 to 16 mpg). ============================ misc: Unleaded vehicles produce copious amounts of carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, HC, and a bunch of other nasty stuff... ;) And are about 15 to 25% efficient. Diesel vehicles produce carbon dioxide, a few HC, aldehyde and a few HCs, not quite as nasty... and are about 40% efficient, or better. Propane vehicles are by far the cleanest, but you see about 10% less power at the rear wheels over gasoline, AND you see as much as 25% less fuel economy, AND you're now paying more... And, the Federal Government mandated about 5 years ago that any aftermarket conversion for propane or LPG must be federally approved or it's illegal... So, a combination of high prices and ridiculous legislation has made propane a poor option. ======= If I park the J10 and drive the 300SD I'll also save $65 a month in insurance... :( Guess that'll give me time to get a nice 4.0L driveline setup and hope and pray for 20mpg... :) john, thinking again... dangerous... ;) - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/ http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-2.jpg FS JEEPs: V8 360/401 use: TS-23 I-6 258 uses: TS-12 retail $21.50 xj JEEPS: 4.0L/2.5L('87 and up) uses: TS-29 retail $29.95 DieselBenz varies: typical S1118 or S1680 retail $32.50 or $39.85 http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ To order 1-800-956-5695 customer# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:08:16 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fuel costs, and why propane isn't good... At 03:14 PM 1/23/01 -0500, Ray (lists) wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >Subject: Re: fuel costs, and why propane isn't good... > > > it sures seems like a lot of work to convert and build an engine to > > run on more expensive fuel that is harder to obtain.... :) > >This is coming from a person who is constantly coming up with all kinds of >hare-brained schemes to add diesel to a Jeep, replace a perfectly fine five >speed with an automatic, stuff an old French FI system into an FSJ, graft a >weak Benz diesel onto an FSJ (talk about a 25% decrease in power!), and too >many schemes to remember! ideas... thoughts... when the pencil meets the paper and we check the bank account that's where dreams disappear into vapor... ;) But for any engineer or designer, the fun is in the chase, the pursuit of the idea. Actually doing it is often anti-climatic... :) As far as a Turbo Diesel Benz motor being a decrease in power, I don't think so... check out the specs, for THREE LITERS of engine compared to FIVE.NINE liters of AMC boat anchor, I think you'll be somewhat surprised. 3.0L MBz Turbo Diesel (81-85): 125hp -at-4350rpm 170ftlbs -at- 2,400 rpm 4.2L (around 115hp) 5.9L AMC 1981: 128hp -at-3,700rpm 245ftlbs -at-1,600 rpm 4.0L AMC 1988: 177hp -at-4,500rpm 224ftlbs -at-2,500 rpm now, let's compare fuel economy for each of these engines in there respective vehicles: 24-30mpg, 14-18mpg, 8 to 13 mpg (maybe) and 15-19mpg of course the other factor is when the power is produced, for a Jeep obviously you want your power as low of an rpm as possible... well, all of your schemes sound interesting and I hope they work well, and then I hope you can market them to the rest of us and others and become wonderfully wealthy for your vision. >;-) > >You don't know the half of it! You want to hear some hare-brained schemes? >Try this on for size: > >Step 1: Graft a TH700R4 to my NP229 by sticking a 50% overdrive unit between >them. This will give me some really tall gearing for the road (too tall), >plus an intermediate step when I'm in low range. > >Step 2: Get a pair of those new cable locker thingies (I have 44s on both >ends!) along with 4.11 or 4.52 (or whatever) gears. This will make my >overdrive actually useful for normal driving, and give me a really good low >end. > >Step 3: Put airbag springs on all four corners. Put Edelbrock shocks on all >four corners. This will solve the "saggin wagon" problem and give me ground >clearance when I need it. It'll also be great for towing trailers and >carrying loads. > >Step 4: Cut out the fenders and get some bigger tires. I'll want to do this >very soon after step two, and plan my axle ratio accordingly. > >Step 5: Graft a liquid propane injection unit to the Jeep and run it dual >fuel. Use one of those injector computers (I forgot the name) that can run >about 16 injectors and do lots of other things for you. > >Step 6: Get some CNG injectors and program the computer to use CNG most of >the time, and switch to liquid propane when I want to get some real power >out of it. > >Step 7: Rebuild the engine to run best on propane/methane (~14:1 >compression). Keep a small gas tank and water injector for emergencies. >Keep the Pro-Jection brain as a backup unit. > >Step 8: Modify the exhaust to run outside the frame rails. Use the space >where there was a muffler, and the space where there was a gasoline tank for >CNG and LPG tanks. Use a STRONG skid plate, with some heavy foam padding >between the plate and the tanks. > >Step 9: Get a natural gas compressor so that I can get the stuff cheap from >the mains. > >Step 11: Make a digester so that I can turn garbage into methane and run my >FSJ for free. > >And... for my next FSJ, I'll do the same thing, except: > >1) Get some deuce-and-a-half axles from that company that advertises in the >4x4 rags. Create a multilink suspension system with airbags. > >2) Get a Richmond Overdrive 6-speed transmission. > >3) Do all of the same stuff to the engine. > >And finally... >Do the above to a truck and make a go-anywhere camper... >Or... >Build a camper on a deuce-and-a-half. >Ray Drouillard >(They laughed at Fulton, too) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #479 *********************************