From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #507 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 9 2001 Volume 01 : Number 507 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: cold natured 300SDs Re: cold natured 300SDs Re: No power when cold in an '85 300SD. Re: No power when cold in an '85 300SD. Re: cold natured 300SDs one more injector... Sagging in the rear heading out for parts... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:25:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: cold natured 300SDs My '83 300SD will barely make it out of my very steep driveway when cold... once it warms up a bit it sails though... Not sure if it's the turbo being kept off with a thermal switch or just not enough heat for the turbo to actually work properly. I know that my '85 jeep cherokee with a 2.1 Renault Turbo Diesel would be very sluggish if I forgot to hook the vacuum line back up to the wastegate control... :) My Ford 1900 tractor was faster... :) reconnect that vacuum line and it was snappy again... I'll probe around under the hood to see if there is a thermal switch controlling the wastegate, or if it's just the lack of heat after startup that keeps the turbo from spinning up. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: cold natured 300SDs On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Don Campbell wrote: >-->My 300DT became very drivable in cold weather starts after changing injectors, >-->fuel filters and finally going to synthetic oil (5W Mobil One).. The oil made it >-->much easier to start I never plug the car in now (even in 0 degree nights), and >-->the injectors made the biggest overall performance increase.. have all new injectors and run Amsoil Synthetic already... it's only a very short time that it doesn't spool up... never notice it at work, just my driveway, which is incredibly steep and long... By the time I'm halfway out of the drive the turbo kicks in... only about 100 feet up the drive... (total length of drive is something like 275 feet... the first 50 feet has an elevation change of something like 30 feet... :) It's hard to walk up, harder to walk DOWN... ;) >-->There is no thermal switches on the turbo, the turbo is slow to spin up >-->partially due to oil viscoscity.. Also, I don't think MB's do any injector >-->timing advance when the motor is cold that's how new diesels with electronic >-->controlled injectors combat the cold.. I don't think it has to do with viscosity of the oil, the pour point of the AMsoil is something like -55 degrees, I'm pretty sure it has to do with the combustion temperature and getting the turbo heated up... it's the hot air coming from the exhaust that spins the turbo. ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:33:49 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Straut Subject: Re: No power when cold in an '85 300SD. My '85 300D that just turned over 90k miles behaves the same way - quite sluggish when cold. My only suggestion is to give it time to warm up before you go for a drive in cold weather. This is the first diesel I have owned, so I just assume that this is just a trait that diesel engines share. One of our diesel veterans might be able to confirm or refute that :) Chris '85 300D, 90k On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Barnes, Mark wrote: > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:16:09 -0500 > From: "Barnes, Mark" > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: No power when cold in an '85 300SD. > > Greetings, > > My Mom recently purchased a used 300SD with 257,000 on the clock. > The car will barely move when the engine is cold. Once it has warmed up and > run through the gears a few times it run fine. When I pull out of my house > I have a small up hill section which the car crawls up when cold and leaps > up when warm. When it is cold it does not seem to increase RPM's enough for > the turbo's boost to kick in. No amount of additional throttle makes a > difference. When dealing with merging or pulling out into traffic, it is > very scary and I often wish I had a sign I could display at these times on > the back telling people I "AM" accelerating and will be out of there way > shortly. > > I took it on a trip to Ohio from Maryland and found it a very well > made and designed car. As long as I could keep the RPM's up it would pull > the hills very well. My choices were 80+MPH in 4th or around 65 in 3rd. If > it dropped below 80MPH when going up hill, such as when a slower vehicle > pulled in front of me I would need to drop it into 3rd gear to keep the car > moving at around 65MPH. Does that seem about right? The mountains were > only 1200ft to 2900ft high. It seemed to be more the angle of ascent rather > then the altitude that would be a problem if the RPM's dropped. > > I have ordered a service manual on the Benz Diesel, it is not by MB. > Does anyone have any recommendations of other manuals or books to get, both > drive train and general '85 S class related? I have looked into getting the > actual MB manuals. They are pricey! I wondered if anyone has tried the CD > version and what you think the advantages are that should be considered when > choosing between the paper and CD versions. > > Thanks, > > Mark Barnes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:35:39 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: No power when cold in an '85 300SD. On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Barnes, Mark wrote: > My Mom recently purchased a used 300SD with 257,000 on the clock. > The car will barely move when the engine is cold. This is normal behavior. It should be much less pronounced when ambient temperatures get about 35 or 40F though. > I took it on a trip to Ohio from Maryland and found it a very well > made and designed car. As long as I could keep the RPM's up it would pull > the hills very well. My choices were 80+MPH in 4th or around 65 in 3rd. If > it dropped below 80MPH when going up hill, such as when a slower vehicle > pulled in front of me I would need to drop it into 3rd gear to keep the car > moving at around 65MPH. Does that seem about right? No, particularly in flat-as-a-board Ohio. You may have turbo problems. There is a hose going from back side of the intake manifold to a switchover valve (not sure exactly where it is on the SD) to the injection pump. If that pathway is blocked in any way, you for all practical purposes don't have a turbo. (As a quick check, your 0-62 should be in the neighborhood of 15-16 seconds according to the technical data manual.) The purpose of the hose is to inform the injection pump about the turbo boost pressure so it can squirt extra fuel in. No detected boost pressure, no extra fuel, no extra power. Take the (hollow) bolt out of the intake manifold and make sure it is all clear. That is the most common point of failure, particularly with a functioning EGR valve that dumps exhaust into the intake. > The mountains were > only 1200ft to 2900ft high. Mountains?!?! Those are bumps. > I have ordered a service manual on the Benz Diesel, it is not by MB. > Does anyone have any recommendations of other manuals or books to get, both > drive train and general '85 S class related? I have looked into getting the > actual MB manuals. They are pricey! The non MB books are okay for a general tour of the car but of very limited utility for actual work and contain a variety of serious errors. Like suggesting 37ft-lbs of torque for the glow plugs. The MB manuals on CD are generally hated for their packaging and they are aimed at the experienced mechanic, but if you are serious about doing your own maintenance, they are well worth it. I print out sections for jobs I need to do and keep them in a binder. If you can find a paper version (they are out of print), snap it up as fast as you can! These cars are quite well engineered for the DIY mechanic. Above all, tap the wisdom and hard-won experience of people on this list and subscribe to the diesel-at-mbz.org list as well. There are a variety of other excellent MB lists not devoted to diesels, but the volume can be overwhelming. I've recently cut my subscriptions to the two diesel lists as disposing of ~1400 messages a week was taking too much time. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:29:44 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: cold natured 300SDs John: What is considered cold? I start mine up, and as soon as the temp gauge moves a little I starting driving (around 1 - 3 minutes). I then usually immediately get on the highway and acceleration is great... How long do you wait until you start driving?? Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: john >To: diesel-benz list >Subject: cold natured 300SDs >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:25:34 -0800 (PST) > >My '83 300SD will barely make it out of my very steep driveway when cold... >once it warms up a bit it sails though... > >Not sure if it's the turbo being kept off with a thermal switch or just >not enough heat for the turbo to actually work properly. > >I know that my '85 jeep cherokee with a 2.1 Renault Turbo Diesel would >be very sluggish if I forgot to hook the vacuum line back up to the >wastegate >control... :) My Ford 1900 tractor was faster... :) reconnect that vacuum >line >and it was snappy again... > >I'll probe around under the hood to see if there is a thermal switch >controlling >the wastegate, or if it's just the lack of heat after startup that keeps >the >turbo from spinning up. > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** >** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:05:41 -0800 From: john Subject: one more injector... the '83 300SD is running great... but under full throttle I'm still dealing with one bad injector... #5 is weeping a bit. Easy enough to get to. I'm hoping to run down to Phil Smart in Seattle and swap it out in there parking lot tomorrow afternoon and turn in both of the defective injectors... Might try to run over to Benz Friendz and see if they have a tach module for the dash and maybe some Euro style lights... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:43:54 -0800 From: Robert Crawford Subject: Sagging in the rear My 81 300SD seems to sag a bit in the rear, the rear is lower than the front. As I drive around I have noticed this in a lot of MBs but I would like to know if there is a simple fix. This is not a big thing, just something that irritates me. As a related note, when my father was driving it he claimed that the rear felt a bit odd. He felt that the air pressure was low but when I checked it, it was fine. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:40:38 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: heading out for parts... alright, loading Solaris 8 on my workstation here, engineers from the rest of the world are on planes back home, boss gone, sun out, I'm rolling toward the Benz dealer in Seattle... yeehaw. :) gonna pick up the frau and not worry about getting caught in Seattle friday afternoon traffic on the flipside. :) later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #507 *********************************