From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #520 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, March 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 520 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 250 Model Question Re: 250 Model Question Re: 250 Model Question shifting problem found Re: shifting problem found Re: shifting problem found transmission hard shifting? climate control fan? RE: Windshield question. too weird... Re: too weird... Re: too weird... Re: climate control fan? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:49:13 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: 250 Model Question Sounds like you have a W113/W114 series vehicle... Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: " " >Reply-To: docmikeii-at-earthlink.net >To: "mercedes" , "diesel-benz-digest" > >Subject: 250 Model Question >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:56:19 -0800 > >How does one determine which exact model they have? > > > >My 250 ('72, 4-door, dual carb, 6 cyl, AT, Power sunroof, but manual >windows, MB Tex interior) is my question. I know it is not a "C" model, >but how do you know if you have an "S" or "SE" or 250/8, etc? Anyone >know? Any web page that has this info? Any book? Thanks! > > > >Michael > > > > > >--- docmikeii-at-earthlink.net > >--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > >--- Alameda, CA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:51:06 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: 250 Model Question I made an error... it IS a W114 series vehicle Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: John Fieber >To: >CC: mercedes , diesel-benz-digest > >Subject: Re: 250 Model Question >Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:04:21 -0500 (EST) > >On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, wrote: > > > How does one determine which exact model they have? > > > > My 250 ('72, 4-door, dual carb, 6 cyl, AT, Power sunroof, but manual > > windows, MB Tex interior) is my question. I know it is not a "C" model, > > but how do you know if you have an "S" or "SE" or 250/8, etc? Anyone > > know? Any web page that has this info? Any book? Thanks! > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html is a start, but doesn't >quite clarify exactly what the difference between the 250 >variants are. > >-john _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 00:17:01 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: 250 Model Question It's not an S or SE... on the back of the car says just 250... Mercedes-Benz vehicles use 2 ways to identify their vehicles... the chassis or series number (ie: W126, W114, W202) -- those numbers aren't usually generally known by the public.. it was used mostly by part houses and the Mercedes factory. Savvy Benz owners use these numbers as well... These numbers identify the bodystyle. One bodystyle can house many different engines and transmissions and can span several years. For example: The W107 series was the Mercedes 2-door roadster/convertible and had a production run for over 18 years... is came with many engines including the 4.5 litre V-8, 3.5 litre V-8, 2.8 Litre I-6...etc etc. The other method of identification of Mercedes vehicles is the Sales Designation of the vehicle. This is the number(s) and letters on the back of the car. These are the generally known numbers that the vehicles are referred to everyday. For example the model 250 (like your car) came in a few bodystyles... most notably the W114 and W123 series. These numbers (usually) indicate the engine and specify some other features about the car. For example: 300E and 300SE Both of these vehicles have 3.0 litre in-line 6 cylinder engines with fuel injection. The SE model however is a different bodystyle, because of the "S". Here is the breakdown of most of the letters: E = Einspritz (German for fuel injected) D = Diesel S = Super (German for S-class -- the S-class is the biggest of Mercedes and the top of line) L = Lang (German for Long wheelbase - some Mercedes are a few inches longer and provide more legroom) C = Coupe T = T-Estate (German for the station wagons) Also you could see on the right rear side of some Mercedes with the engine displacement... for example: 190E 2.6 Typically Mercedes use the number on the left side of the trunk (ex: 190E) to denote the displacement - so 190E SHOULD be a 1.9 litre engine (in the early days it was) but in this case the 2.6 on the right side of the trunk corrects it, saying it has a 2.6 litre engine. Here are some other examples: 560SEC 5.6 litre Super Einspritz Coupe (5.6 litre V-8, S-class, Fuel Injected, 2-door coupe) 300SD 3.0 litre Super Diesel (3.0 litre in-line 5, S-class, diesel engine [turbo in this case]) 250 2.5 litre in-line 6 cylinder. The absence of the S means it is not an S-class vehicle, the absence of the E indicates it is carburated... etc. Sorry to ramble on, but I hope this helped! :) Mike M. '83 300SD W126 '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ >From: John Fieber >To: >CC: mercedes , diesel-benz-digest > >Subject: Re: 250 Model Question >Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:04:21 -0500 (EST) > >On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, wrote: > > > How does one determine which exact model they have? > > > > My 250 ('72, 4-door, dual carb, 6 cyl, AT, Power sunroof, but manual > > windows, MB Tex interior) is my question. I know it is not a "C" model, > > but how do you know if you have an "S" or "SE" or 250/8, etc? Anyone > > know? Any web page that has this info? Any book? Thanks! > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html is a start, but doesn't >quite clarify exactly what the difference between the 250 >variants are. > >-john _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:54:12 -0800 From: john Subject: shifting problem found thanx to whoever mentioned the white plastic thing on the injection pump... the vacuum line had come off when I replaced the injector!!! (pictures later) drove it up the hill, clunking stopped, shifted perfectly... now I have a new problem. The fan quit working. I fiddled with the fuses, current is going through, but no fan... how hard is it to replace it??? Or is it something else? convential troubleshooting skills don't seem to work on these things... :) Today was a good day, not only did I fix the shifting problem, but my son's J3000 went to it's new home and I won a '96 jeep cherokee that was totalled on ebay so I have a 4.0L engine for my J10! Now, if I can find a buyer for the 300SD I can build my garage!!! If not, I'll keep driving the benz and live without a garage... thanx again, later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:27:49 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: shifting problem found At 11:22 PM 3/24/01 -0500, John Fieber wrote: > http://www.peterschmid.com/ >The have scanned images of the vacuum control valve adjustment >procedure from the mythical MB transmission manual! Some other >good stuff too. >-john http://www.peterschmid.com/vacuum/1977_1985/617_95/1981_1984.jpg cool stuff, thanx John... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:22:40 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: shifting problem found On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, john wrote: > thanx to whoever mentioned the white plastic thing on > the injection pump... the vacuum line had come off when > I replaced the injector!!! (pictures later) This just came over the other diesel list: http://www.peterschmid.com/ The have scanned images of the vacuum control valve adjustment procedure from the mythical MB transmission manual! Some other good stuff too. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:20:35 -0800 From: john Subject: transmission hard shifting? Here's the pictures of what was loose... symptom was very HARD shifting and a bang going into 4th... http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/tech/Vacuum also captured the image from... http://www.peterschmid.com/ http://www.peterschmid.com/vacuum/1977_1985/617_95/1981_1984.jpg - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:24:09 -0800 From: john Subject: climate control fan? I'm in digest mode, so if someone has already answered this thanx... Anyway, the other day I heard a funny sound when we stopped... it sounded like something wrong with the engine... I thought maybe it was the aircleaner assy or something like that... then when I shut off the ignition I heard the fan stopping and making funny noises... ...well today I was driving along, noticed it was getting warm in the car and went to flip on the fan... but it was already on, but wasn't... hmmm... so I pushed buttons, manual, auto, off... pushed defrost since that usually creates a small hurricane... nothing... Checked the fuses, wiggled the relays... no change. When I pull fuse number 11 and number 10, or was it 14 and 10? anyway, I can see that currrent is flowing in the circuit, and even here something clicking, but no fan... so, I can only hope that this fan is easier to change than a volvo... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 03:31:01 -0500 From: Dan Jacobs Subject: RE: Windshield question. I agree, seems to be a problem relating to aftermarket wind shields (or rain shield, if you live in the bee-oo-tifull Pacific NW! Right John? ;-) Diesel Dan, your "Better late than never with the reply's, eh?" man in Vancouver, WA >===== Original Message From "Barnes, Mark" ===== >The windshield on the 1985 300sd seems to have thousands of tiny little pits >which is hard to see through when light hits it. Is this a known issue with >the Benz? Any ideas or solutions you have are appreciated! I was thinking >of trying to find a windshield polishing shop or something like it. > >Regards, > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:24:39 -0800 From: john Subject: too weird... went out this morning, lit off the 300SD to let it warm up... reached over and tried the defrost button... IT WORKED?!!? ok, let's try the other buttons... they worked too!!! now, if I can just figure out what NOT to do to fix the Tachometer this thing will be perfect... rofl... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:40:59 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: too weird... On Sun, 25 Mar 2001, john wrote: > went out this morning, lit off the 300SD to let it warm up... > reached over and tried the defrost button... IT WORKED?!!? ok, > let's try the other buttons... they worked too!!! If electricity is reliably getting to the blower (attach a spare voltmeter to the connection and take note of its behavior next time the motor doesn't go when it should), a commonly cited thing to try is to clean and lube the motor bearings with ATF. Too much mechanical resistance and the motor won't reliably start. You can supposedly get replacement brushes if those are worn out. The blower in these cars is ALWAYS on when anything but the OFF button is pressed, so failure is not entirely uncommon. In the 123, the blower motor is trivial to remove. Don't know about the 126. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:01:09 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: too weird... after church it didn't come one... about 10 minutes into the ride, it started working again... these things have built in delay, I wonder if the delay/stepper relay thing for the fan speed control doesn't have some corrosion or something... the thing is there is no rust or corrision anywhere on the car... the fuses aren't even discolored... :) It was working fine even after stopping for lunch... I think I'll see if that used tach assembly is still at the salvage yard and tear the dash apart and clean all the contacts and check all the wiring... ;) john At 01:40 PM 3/25/01 -0500, John Fieber wrote: >On Sun, 25 Mar 2001, john wrote: > > went out this morning, lit off the 300SD to let it warm up... > > reached over and tried the defrost button... IT WORKED?!!? ok, > > let's try the other buttons... they worked too!!! > >If electricity is reliably getting to the blower (attach a spare >voltmeter to the connection and take note of its behavior next >time the motor doesn't go when it should), a commonly cited thing >to try is to clean and lube the motor bearings with ATF. Too >much mechanical resistance and the motor won't reliably start. >You can supposedly get replacement brushes if those are worn out. > >The blower in these cars is ALWAYS on when anything but the OFF >button is pressed, so failure is not entirely uncommon. In the >123, the blower motor is trivial to remove. Don't know about the >126. >-john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 20:36:29 -0500 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: Re: climate control fan? This is a wierd coincidence....I'm currently having blower motor problems in my '84 300D. Fan works fine when the car is first started, but eventually the airflow is diminshed to almost nothing and then I could hear clicking noises coming from the passenger side footwell. I ran the thing with the kick panel removed so I could hear exactly where the noise was coming from...turned out to be the blower. The clicking noise occurs after the motor has heated up...maybe 15 minutes and the motor speed slowly diminishes to zero. Now for the fluke...the lower end of the motor shaft is viewable and I pressed upward on it and the motor began to run normally...bearings don't seem to be bad...end play in shaft is barely perceptable. I took the whole thing apart...the brushes are nearly gone and the armature is worn down quite a bit where the brushes ride on it. I'm now trying to find some replacement brushes...hope that fixes it. Regards- Steve Morelen >From: john >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: climate control fan? >Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:24:09 -0800 > >I'm in digest mode, so if someone has already answered this thanx... > >Anyway, the other day I heard a funny sound when we stopped... it >sounded like something wrong with the engine... I thought maybe it >was the aircleaner assy or something like that... then when I shut >off the ignition I heard the fan stopping and making funny noises... > >...well today I was driving along, noticed it was getting warm in >the car and went to flip on the fan... but it was already on, but >wasn't... hmmm... so I pushed buttons, manual, auto, off... pushed >defrost since that usually creates a small hurricane... nothing... > >Checked the fuses, wiggled the relays... no change. When I pull fuse >number 11 and number 10, or was it 14 and 10? anyway, I can see that >currrent is flowing in the circuit, and even here something clicking, >but no fan... > >so, I can only hope that this fan is easier to change than a volvo... > >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #520 *********************************