From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #530 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, April 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 530 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: the summary of the cycle... Re: what John said... another "hare" brained idea... Re: Troubleshooting Vacuum Re: another "hare" brained idea... Re: Troubleshooting Vacuum Re: another "hare" brained idea... Re: another "hare" brained idea... Re: another "hare" brained idea... Re: another "hare" brained idea... Interesting Link RE: Rube Goldberg Re: test digest "gzipped" RE: Rube Goldberg RE: Rube Goldberg RE: Rube Goldberg Re: Diesel Benzes Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 11:55:42 -0700 From: john Subject: the summary of the cycle... funny thing is this happens with my xj's and fsj's too... :) >Where else can we see an updated "Dick & Jane" primer: >See John buy a diesel Benz >See John cuss at his diesel Benz >See John sell his diesel Benz >See John lament the loss of his diesel Benz >See John want to make his FSJ a part diesel Benz >See John finally buy another diesel Benz >See John cuss at his diesel Benz >See John want to sell his diesel Benz >See John visualize he has a garage for his diesel Benz >If cable were this much fun, I'd get it! ;-) >Besides, we've got Diesel Dan and Alec... Our very own Click n' Clack! >It doesn't get any better than this! >Jon ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 14:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Evan Reisner Subject: Re: what John said... See Evan buy a diesel Benz See Evan cuss at diesel benz See diesel Benz rot in driveway, because nobody will buy it at any price. See junkman laugh when I ask him if HE wants it. Next up, see Evan rent trailer and haul it to junkyard himself. See Evan cry at having wasted $3000 Evan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:00:32 -0700 From: john Subject: another "hare" brained idea... you know I've had as many VW Diesels and Mercedes Diesels... seems like followers of one follow the other... let's say we open the list up to VW Diesel owners as well. whaddya think? or is this just a "hare" brained idea... ;) of course the VW guys might claim their Diesels are better... and of course we'll be able to remind them of their timing belts... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Vacuum > Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > On my Benz, the circuit is as illustrated in the schematic, that > is the transmission vacuum source is coming directly from the buss and not from > our point "A" *** I believe that this particular restrictor is built in to the main bus hose. If you pull the hose off the tit, you'll see that the hole in the tit is very small. As I remember, there are three tits on the bus - one unrestricted, and the other two - restricted. You should NOT connect the VCV directly to an unrestricted vacuum bus tit; if you do, the VCV is trying to short out the entire bus. A large amount of air will be pulled through it, and you may noticed reduced power braking, poor door lock action, an engine that won't turn off when you turn the ignition key. - Jerry ( -at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:18:34 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: another "hare" brained idea... At 12:13 PM 4/7/01 -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >*** Bad idea, IMHO. The diesel Mercedes is a very specific product, >and has a lot of "stuff" that's not really related to it's being >diesel-powered. I'm sure the VW is the same... > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) good point. :) but let's say it's OK to talk about 'em here... ;) let's see, I'm two for two ain't I? :) rofl... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:16:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Vacuum > Jerry, > > That is the BEST technical description of the mysteries of engine manifold > vacuum and of the MB vacuum control I've EVER read! *** Why thank you. One thing I forgot to mention, is that this circuit is exactly analogous to a resistive voltage divider. The restriction is the top resistor, the VCV is the bottom resistor. And we take the divided voltage off their junction. I had to figure it out because somebody had wired up my vacuum all goofy: the door locks were connected to the VCV, and the transmission was connected to raw vacuum. Neither the door locks nor the transmission worked very well :-). - Jerry (-at-tr2.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 17:24:26 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: another "hare" brained idea... On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, john wrote: > let's say we open the list up to VW Diesel owners as well. > whaddya think? or is this just a "hare" brained idea... ;) Well, I'll just say that if I were in the market for a NEW car, a TDI Jetta or Passat would be at the very top of my list. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 19:08:03 -0400 From: Thomas Savage Subject: Re: another "hare" brained idea... Hi, I just joined the list a few days ago (please keep it up!) and I really like what I've seen so far. John Fieber wrote: > > > Well, I'll just say that if I were in the market for a NEW car, a > TDI Jetta or Passat would be at the very top of my list. > > -john Actually, there are no more Passat TDIs in America as of 1997 when the current B5 body style came out. I will, however, second the notion that VW TDIs are fabulous cars. Dad has one, a '96 with ~125k miles. It's been dead reliable, comfortable, and averages 41 mpg - what else do you need? I imagine that had Mercedes not lost focus and continued making the 240D for another ten years, they would have come up with a vehice very similar to the Passat TDI (albeit with more intelligently designed door handles). OTOH, prior to purchasing my 300D last December I had a '95 Passat VR6 and it was the most troublesome, least reliable vehicle ever, but that is another story entirely... - -- __________________________________________________________________ Tom Savage | thomas-at-savage.org | Vienna, West Virginia | 1982 300D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 19:06:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Straut Subject: Re: another "hare" brained idea... I didn't know you could get the TDI in the Passat :) That would be a nice car to have indeed. Any idea what a nice used one goes for these days? - -chris On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, John Fieber wrote: > On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, john wrote: > > > let's say we open the list up to VW Diesel owners as well. > > whaddya think? or is this just a "hare" brained idea... ;) > > Well, I'll just say that if I were in the market for a NEW car, a > TDI Jetta or Passat would be at the very top of my list. > > -john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 18:21:06 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Subject: Re: another "hare" brained idea... On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Chris Straut wrote: > I didn't know you could get the TDI in the Passat :) That would be a nice > car to have indeed. Any idea what a nice used one goes for these days? I don't think it is available yet, but I saw a blurb that they planed to introduce to the US market sometime this year. - -john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 18:00:50 -0700 From: "W.HornGrinder" Subject: Interesting Link Here's a neat link y'all might find useful.. http://hsb.baylor.edu/html/easley/mercedes/welcome.html :)-Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 00:31:51 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg I would have to guess that the prevalent failure mechanism should be the inevitable deterioration of rubber parts. I do have to criticize MB for the areas of the system design that will allow motor oil to be pulled into the vacuum system when parts do fail. Steve >From: Chris Straut >To: Steve Morelen >CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 08:00:38 -0400 (EDT) > >My '85 300D's door locks (actually, the entire vacuum system) seems to >work flawlessly. Looking over the service records from the previous >original owner, there's never been any work done on the system >whatsoever. Either I've been very lucky, or those people having problems >have been very unlucky :) > >What exactly kills the vacuum systems in these things? Oil in the >vacuum system? Desintegration of the rubber fittings? > >Chris > > > >On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Steve Morelen wrote: > > > I've noticed folks trashing the vacuum door locks on the W123 cars >lately. > > Mine is 18 years old this August and the only locking system component >that > > I've had to change in this car is one of the actuator units in one of >the > > doors. In aggregate, I've owned W123 cars since 1983 (81 240D and 84 >300D) > > and that one actuator is the only locking system part that I've had to > > replace. I'm not unhapppy with that kind of longevity. BTW, guess how >the > > locks in my '99 Jetta work?....you guessed right...pneumatic! > > > > Steve > > > > > > >From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com > > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > >Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg > > >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:26:29 -0700 > > > > > >Remember that our locks will work even with a dead electrical system! > > >Alec > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > > >On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor > > >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:14 PM > > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > >Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg > > > > > >WRT Rube Goldberg: > > > > > > Actually, I take exception at the suggestion that our W123 power >door > > >locks > > >are a Rube Goldberg arrangement. If you want power door locks, what we > > >got is about as simple as it gets. A challenge to you all: design a >power > > >door lock system that is simpler - I bet you can't! > > > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 22:43:17 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: test digest "gzipped" At 04:06 PM 4/7/01 -0700, rick wrote: >Hi, >I just downloaded the test gzip & ran it through PowerZip/WIN98 ... it >worked fine. Cool. > later, > rick cool, next time I'm in a shell I'll tar/gzip the other directories... each directory has about 100 digests in them. :) (Unix is so nice for doing stuff like this, I'll be able to recall the command from this history file and pop it right out... it'll take longer for me to login than to create those files... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Straut Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg Are there specific components of the vacuum system in the engine compartment and allow motor oil to enter the vacuum system? If so, it would probably be very simple to replace them, and then I imagine you would be safe from that problem for a very long time. Anyone know about this? My vacuum system works flawlessly now, so I'd like to keep it that way! Chris On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Steve Morelen wrote: > I would have to guess that the prevalent failure mechanism should be the > inevitable deterioration of rubber parts. I do have to criticize MB for the > areas of the system design that will allow motor oil to be pulled into the > vacuum system when parts do fail. > > Steve > > > >From: Chris Straut > >To: Steve Morelen > >CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg > >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 08:00:38 -0400 (EDT) > > > >My '85 300D's door locks (actually, the entire vacuum system) seems to > >work flawlessly. Looking over the service records from the previous > >original owner, there's never been any work done on the system > >whatsoever. Either I've been very lucky, or those people having problems > >have been very unlucky :) > > > >What exactly kills the vacuum systems in these things? Oil in the > >vacuum system? Desintegration of the rubber fittings? > > > >Chris > > > > > > > >On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Steve Morelen wrote: > > > > > I've noticed folks trashing the vacuum door locks on the W123 cars > >lately. > > > Mine is 18 years old this August and the only locking system component > >that > > > I've had to change in this car is one of the actuator units in one of > >the > > > doors. In aggregate, I've owned W123 cars since 1983 (81 240D and 84 > >300D) > > > and that one actuator is the only locking system part that I've had to > > > replace. I'm not unhapppy with that kind of longevity. BTW, guess how > >the > > > locks in my '99 Jetta work?....you guessed right...pneumatic! > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > >From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com > > > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > >Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg > > > >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:26:29 -0700 > > > > > > > >Remember that our locks will work even with a dead electrical system! > > > >Alec > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > > > >On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor > > > >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:14 PM > > > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > >Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg > > > > > > > >WRT Rube Goldberg: > > > > > > > > Actually, I take exception at the suggestion that our W123 power > >door > > > >locks > > > >are a Rube Goldberg arrangement. If you want power door locks, what we > > > >got is about as simple as it gets. A challenge to you all: design a > >power > > > >door lock system that is simpler - I bet you can't! > > > > > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 13:33:26 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg If the vacuum pump (on the front of the engine) fails, then motor oil will find it's way into the system and rapidly turn it into junk. I've put a small, clear gas filter in the vacuum line just after the pump. It won't prevent oil seepage for very long, but it will give early warning of trouble. Mike Frank 1979 300CD At 12:48 PM 4/8/01, Chris Straut wrote: >Are there specific components of the vacuum system in the engine >compartment and allow motor oil to enter the vacuum system? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 13:49:42 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: RE: Rube Goldberg If the vacuum kill switch diaphragm fails on the back of the injector pump that will also allow oil into the vacuum system. They are easy to replace, if a little fiddly to get at. SDB On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Michael Frank wrote: |If the vacuum pump (on the front of the engine) fails, then motor oil will |find it's way into the system and rapidly turn it into junk. I've put a |small, clear gas filter in the vacuum line just after the pump. It won't |prevent oil seepage for very long, but it will give early warning of trouble. | |Mike Frank |1979 300CD | |At 12:48 PM 4/8/01, Chris Straut wrote: |>Are there specific components of the vacuum system in the engine |>compartment and allow motor oil to enter the vacuum system? | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 14:15:20 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Diesel Benzes At 04:37 AM 4/8/01 +0200, Guindo wrote: >Hello! >Here a young fanatic of Mercedes Diesel, writing from Spain. I was able to visit Spain in March of 1977. Beautiful. I came across Southern France and went as far south as Tarragona, then back up to Barcelona and back inland to Mount Serrat. From there we went over to Andorra where we spent the night because of snow. We came back over this twisty, windy two lane mountain road that dropped us over on the coast north of Barcelona... It was exciting driving a '71 BMW 2500 with Michelin xvx's and a 4 speed over a snowy pass... :) If I remember correctly the elevation went to 1,200 Meters. The countryside was so beautiful. Where are you in Spain? >I'd kill (well, just kidding) for any kind of info about W-123 300 D- 300Td- >300 Td Turbodiesel, and any other. >I've been surfing the net and found your page, and now I'm almost HAPPY. Can >I join the email list? absolutely. I'll submit your email to the server and you'll need to respond to authenticate. >Could you please send me information about the car? (driving experiences, >performance, comsupmtion, the auto gearbox... whatever. >Maybe some day I'll be able to buy one :-)) >Thank you so much. >Álvaro you're welcome, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #530 *********************************