From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #533 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, April 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 533 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: continuation of diesel lists & VW TDI angst fuel, freon and john Re: your mail re: 79 300SD seat RE: your mail RE: your mail RE: your mail Diesel swap A 2nd cry for help Re: Poor idle problem after oil change. flushing the AC system governer? Re: your mail parts run over the border... Re: A 2nd cry for help Re: Poor idle problem after oil change. Re: A 2nd cry for help Re: Poor idle problem after oil change. Passat TDI update... RE: governer? Re: Vacuum Troubleshooting Redux Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:46:46 -0400 From: "jay miller" Subject: continuation of diesel lists & VW TDI angst Hey John: One more late vote for continuation! It's a great resource! I'm new, non-DIY, considering a W123 diesel and the candor of the list members helps tremendously. For a really well-run VW TDI list (Golf, Jetta & Passat), try < www.tdiclub.com > Keep it goin' Jay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:03:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fuel, freon and john fuel: yes, gasoline will burn in a Diesel engine, the problem is it burns too fast and will quickly overheat the engine, that's why folks report them glowing red, smelling very hot and then seizing upon cooling. not recommended. :) (the problem is the heat quickly becomes concentrated in the cylinder and doesn't disperse as with the Diesel slow burn... that's also why you can idle a Diesel indefinetly, but a gas engine will begin to overheat... (notice all the electric fans that kick on in the drivethroughs? :) you can mix gasoline with Diesel, 1 gallon of gas to say 19 gallons of Diesel, this is what I did in Portland during cold snaps because we didn't have #1 fuel. I'd say in a dire emergency you could go up to 25% gas/oil in a real pinch... yes, you can burn oil in the engine, works fine and I don't think it matters what kind it is. I've used used oil, new oil, the only problem isi used oil clogs up the fuel filters. :) I've also used used vegetable oil... smelled like a popcorn machine. :) definely clogged the filter too. ;) Both Diesels that I did these things in continued to operate well for years after the experiment. FILTERING is critical though, otherwise you risk clogging an injector, certainly not an expensive problem. Using gasoline in too much concentration is NOT recommended because it'll burn too quickly not allowing the head to be dissipated properly and because you'll lose pump lubricity. :) I've managed to get my Diesel off of the Hewitt Avenue Trestle (US2) in Everett with 1/2 quart of motor oil when I ran out of fuel!!!! - -- ok, what else was I talking about??? oh, freon. I've converted two Diesel Benz systems to r134 from r12. Both systems were empty. The one had a bad o-ring and had leaked out... I replaced the o-ring and used the kit from Schucks to convert. Actually I used the kit both times. ARound $40. It comes with an oil charge that is safe to use with the old R12 oil, it does NOT require removeal of the old oil, this is where some of the early problems with converting came, the old oil for the R12 would react with the r134 stuff, but this kit has an oil that is safe to mix. Both systems worked and are working fine... despite the Rube Goldberg school of engineering approach to the climate control system. - - and one last thing, I am john. and the originator of the list... so that means I was first... ;) rofl... later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: your mail On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Poulsen, Rep. Erik wrote: >-->I'm in desperate need of a blue leather driver's seat for my 79 300SD. I've >-->tried to have it repaired, but it falls to the floor when I'm seated. Any >-->ideas? Thank you! the impco/performance products catalog has repair kits... not sure if they cover the older SD body style... which is that??/ the newer one is 126... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:07:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: re: 79 300SD seat On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Poulsen, Rep. Erik wrote: "Poulsen, Rep. Erik" >-->I'm in desperate need of a blue leather driver's seat for my 79 300SD. I've >-->tried to have it repaired, but it falls to the floor when I'm seated. Any >-->ideas? Thank you! >--> oh, just noticed your email address as a local... ;) benz friendz in Seattle should have one... in fact I just raided a trim piece for my '83 300SD from a blue door panel. ;) give roger a call at: 206.762.7565 and you might consider getting on the Diesel Benz list. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:59:07 -0700 From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com Subject: RE: your mail A 79 300SD should also be a W126 chassis, just like John's 83. The seats are a multi-part affair, and replacement parts are readily available. There is a big boxy spring frame, topped with a pad that may be rubberized horsehair, wrapped in leather or MB-Tex. Remove the seat generally by moving it back to reach the front screws, and moving it forward to reach the back screws. Unplug any electrical connections, then pop that puppy outta there. Replacement frames, pads, and upholstery are available from IMPCO/Performance Products (www.performanceproducts.com), among other places. They are not the cheapest, but they have very informative catalogs with lots of exploded drawings. They also have a really nice description of how to use LubroMoly Diesel Purge, which of course they sell. For better pricing, you might try the usual suspects: Rusty (zac3-at-bellsouth.net), The Benz Bin (http://www.thebenzbin.com), Randy at EPS Parts (http://www.epsparts.com). Although not likely to offer the best pricing, these replacement parts should still be available for ordering through your local MB dealer as well. You might also check with MB-oriented salvage yards, but used seats may show the MB sag soon, if they don't already exhibit it. John seems to know a little more about relatively local salvage yards, but I guess they're relatively local to him in Washington state. From what I've heard, if you get into repairing the seats, put in new pads. Yours are probably worn out. Wonderful car. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 95 C280 89 300CE 85 300DT -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:05 PM To: Poulsen, Rep. Erik Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: your mail On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Poulsen, Rep. Erik wrote: >-->I'm in desperate need of a blue leather driver's seat for my 79 300SD. I've >-->tried to have it repaired, but it falls to the floor when I'm seated. Any >-->ideas? Thank you! the impco/performance products catalog has repair kits... not sure if they cover the older SD body style... which is that??/ the newer one is 126... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:26:14 -0600 From: scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Subject: RE: your mail I was under the impression that my '80 300SD was a W116 chassis. How could a 79 be the same as an 83, when an 80 is different? See: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Cars/79-300SD/ The pictures here look just like my 80 300SD......but I bet not like an 83. Scott - -----Original Message----- From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com [mailto:Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:59 PM To: poulsen_er-at-leg.wa.gov Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: your mail A 79 300SD should also be a W126 chassis, just like John's 83. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:34:58 -0700 From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com Subject: RE: your mail Woops! The headlights (http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Cars/79-300SD/79-300sd_4.jpg) give it away. 1979 300SD would definitely be a W116 chassis, not a W126 as I stated earlier. Hack's MB pages (http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/MODELS.HTM) concur. W116 through at least 1980. W126 starting for some models in 1980. Thanks for catching me on this. I really appreciate it. ;-) Alec -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of scott_haaland-at-agilent.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:26 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: your mail I was under the impression that my '80 300SD was a W116 chassis. How could a 79 be the same as an 83, when an 80 is different? See: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/Cars/79-300SD/ The pictures here look just like my 80 300SD......but I bet not like an 83. Scott - -----Original Message----- From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com [mailto:Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:59 PM To: poulsen_er-at-leg.wa.gov Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: your mail A 79 300SD should also be a W126 chassis, just like John's 83. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Diesel swap >From: Brian Wall >Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1280 >OK, John. You now have me curious. If one could find one of these MB >diesels, what trans would you need to mate to a NP228? What else would you >have to do? And approx. how much would parts cost? you can find a used 3.0L Turbo Diesel from $1,500 to $3,500 at salvage lots specializing in Mercedes. the way I plan on doing it is to attempt to make an adapter for the MB to the aT, the other option is to do a divorced xfr case setup... and use the MB tranny. I haven't seen the flex plate on a Benz, not sure how that would work... I'll look next chance I get... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:03:51 -0400 From: "Barnes, Mark" Subject: A 2nd cry for help Re: Poor idle problem after oil change. Greetings, the first post of this message may have gotten lost so I'm sending it again in the hopes you folks have some ideas! I would like to avaid the problem if possible in the future and have some confidence in uderstanding what happened before my Mom takes it on a 700 mile trip next weekend. I had the oil changed yesterday afternoon on the 85 300SD. It seemed alright at first but after driving in stop and go across town the idle go rougher until it seemed that it was going to stall. When I popped the hood you could see the engine really rock side to side when it stumbled. The car would shake tremendously when this happened, I could put my foot down lightly on the throtle and it would calm down. It seemed to drive OK just poor idle. I drove back home later in the evening in the rain and took the parkway and was able to criuse along at around 70 MPH. By the time I got home the idle was better but not normal. This morning it was fine! Any ideas, is there any possible relationship between an oil and filter change and the poor idle gremlin? Can an oil change lead to air in the fuel system? Also, yesterday was the hottest day we have had since we got the car (Around 85 and high 97% humidity.) and the temp guage showed about 87 - 90 degrees, up until now the hottest seems to have been about 82 or 83 which is the range it is running in today. Thanks for advice and wisdom! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:41:17 -0500 From: "Ben Howell" Subject: flushing the AC system http://keep-it-kool.com/ Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:50:30 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: governer? Problem. 300SD, 1977, 116 chassis engine. Not in the original car. Not even in a mercedes. Sometimes it will idle with a speed that varies up and down regularly. Problem? Maybe. Last week it got stuck at 3000rpm and had to be driven home like that. Good job it is a manual transmission.... Is it the governer? Or what is it? SDB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:29:38 -0500 From: "Ben Howell" Subject: Re: your mail If you are the only one riding in this car the most of the time then you can swap the driver's and passenger's seat, they way I understand it they are the same except for the arm rest which can be easily stoped. - -- On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:05:10 john wrote: >On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Poulsen, Rep. Erik wrote: > >>-->I'm in desperate need of a blue leather driver's seat for my 79 300SD. I've >>-->tried to have it repaired, but it falls to the floor when I'm seated. Any >>-->ideas? Thank you! > >the impco/performance products catalog has repair kits... not sure >if they cover the older SD body style... which is that??/ > >the newer one is 126... > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** >** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Get 250 color business cards for FREE! at Lycos Mail http://mail.lycos.com/freemail/vistaprint_index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:07:54 -0700 From: john Subject: parts run over the border... let's see, I'm on revision 3 of the Gary's Auto Wrecking adventure in BC... I get to work this weekend (easter) on a network upgrade, so I'll get a day off to make up for it... so, I'm heading up to Maple Ridge on Thursday April 19, hanging out a bit on Friday April 20 and heading back that Friday night. It turns out that there is some sort of antique event down here on Saturday the 21st... hey, it works for me, I'm gonna start working on my truck, or my shop!!! :) I'll have everything I need except concrete. ;) So, this will probably put a serious damper on meeting up with anyone north of the border, won't it? I'm even giving thought to taking my '83 300SD... I'm pretty sure the Aisin Warner 30-80LE will fit in the trunk... ;) I have one to test, will check it out later... Benz Friendz is sending me a blower motor, tach unit and some trim pieces, if I get them installed then the 300SD will be in perfect order. :) I've been getting 25mpg in town with it... If the tranny doesn't fit, it'll be another adventure in the little wagoneer. :) I'll check to see if they have any fan shrouds up there, I think Paul Kershner needs one and so does Karl Kuehn, that '80 Cherokee was missing one... Curtis, does my Panel have one, I can't remember... :) So, it's off to Maple Ridge, BC on April 19th, heading back April 20th. Any Benz wrecking yards up there? ;) Sounds like Jim Blair is going to make sure the border is open, he's heading up a few hours before me. :) Any other Jeep parts needed by any Puget Sound types? later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 02:51:28 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: A 2nd cry for help Re: Poor idle problem after oil change. Mark wondered if anyone was listening and said: > I had the oil changed yesterday afternoon on the 85 300SD. It seemed > alright at first but after driving in stop and go across town the idle go > rougher until it seemed that it was going to stall. When I popped the hood > you could see the engine really rock side to side when it stumbled. The car > would shake tremendously when this happened, I could put my foot down > lightly on the throtle and it would calm down. I'll take a stab at this. Is your oil filter an insert that goes into a cannister near the firewall? That's the setup for the older MB diesels, like my 240D. If so, you may have a vacuum line partially "popped off". When I got my 240D some three years ago, a local oil change place accidently pulled a vacuum line loose and the car would not stop. One of the lines was completely disconnected. Once connected, the car stopped. There are several lines around the oil filter cannister and one of them may not be completely connected which could have an effect on your idle. Take a look, fiddle with the lines and you should find the one causing the problem. If one of the lines moves a bit and gets "seated", I'd bet your idle problems go away. Jon '81 240D "Mathilde" 274,500 mi. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:29:44 -0500 From: Jim & Barb Hoffman Subject: Re: A 2nd cry for help Re: Poor idle problem after oil change. Great point Jon! I remember EVERY time I would replace a glow plug (and you guys remember how often that was last year!) I would inevidably pull off a vacuum line somewhere by accident. Usually the same one that runs right past the oil filter cannister. It would *run* ok but wouldn't shift properly. So maybe a "different* vacuum line would cause poor idling... could be. Ask Rube ;) Jim/ Jim Hoffman '83 240D Jon Filina wrote: > Mark wondered if anyone was listening and said: > > > I had the oil changed yesterday afternoon on the 85 300SD. It seemed > > alright at first but after driving in stop and go across town the idle go > > rougher until it seemed that it was going to stall. When I popped the hood > > you could see the engine really rock side to side when it stumbled. The car > > would shake tremendously when this happened, I could put my foot down > > lightly on the throtle and it would calm down. > > I'll take a stab at this. Is your oil filter an insert that goes into a cannister near the firewall? That's the setup for the older MB diesels, like my 240D. > > If so, you may have a vacuum line partially "popped off". When I got my 240D some three years ago, a local oil change place accidently pulled a vacuum line loose and the car would not stop. One of the lines was completely disconnected. Once connected, the car stopped. > > There are several lines around the oil filter cannister and one of them may not be completely connected which could have an effect on your idle. Take a look, fiddle with the lines and you should find the one causing the problem. If one of the lines moves a bit and gets "seated", I'd bet your idle problems go away. > > Jon > '81 240D "Mathilde" 274,500 mi. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:45:08 -0500 From: Jim & Barb Hoffman Subject: Passat TDI update... Well guys the Passat/Jetta/Golf TDI option is OUT! I did some insurance research just on a hunch and found out that it will cost me way too much to insure. Apparently they *grade* the cars between 1 & ?? The bigger the number the higher the costs to repair, etc. Well my Grand Caravan rates out at a 6. My Benz rates out at a 13! But I don't have collision on it because it's so old. The Passat rates out at a 14! and the Jetta at 15!! So a nice '96 Passat TDI with 125K miles with full coverage costs almost TWICE what my '97 Caravan costs with less miles! No can do! I'll buy another '97 Caravan and put a MBZ diesel in it ;) Wanna help John?!?!? :) :( Jim/ Jim Hoffman Gotta keep the '83 240D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 05:52:58 -0700 From: Alec.Cordova-at-quintus.com Subject: RE: governer? Not sure if this is the right thing to check. Not sure if a 77 motor has this. Not sure if this stayed with the motor when the motor was moved. I think idle hunting in a diesel Benz is what the injection pump "rack damper" is for. Some kind of adjustable threaded thingy either under or in back of your diesel injection pump. Hey. No one else had replied, so I figured I'd at least throw that much out for you. ;-) Alec -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of S.D.Byers Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:51 PM To: Diesel-Benz List Subject: governer? Problem. 300SD, 1977, 116 chassis engine. Not in the original car. Not even in a mercedes. Sometimes it will idle with a speed that varies up and down regularly. Problem? Maybe. Last week it got stuck at 3000rpm and had to be driven home like that. Good job it is a manual transmission.... Is it the governer? Or what is it? SDB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:28:30 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: Vacuum Troubleshooting Redux "Man I'm tired of being right!" (Said like Ace Ventura, Pet Detective) :) :) :) Mike M. '83 300SD W126 >From: "W.HornGrinder" >Reply-To: bgrinder1-at-home.com >To: "diesel-benz-at-digest.net" >Subject: Vacuum Troubleshooting Redux >Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:24:34 -0700 > >Gaaah! >I'm reminded of the old saw: >"What do you get from a room with three rabbis in it?" >"Five opinions." > >Two mechanics told me with absolute certainty that that green >hockey-puck (#72 in the schematic) is a check valve. >Guess what?.....It's not! >Finally I round-up a guy with the Mercedes logo tattooed on his forearm >and he says "No. It's a surge preventer. You can blow from either end >and get flow-through. In seventeen years as a Merc mechanic, I've never >had to replace one. They're passive." > >Stress has been defined as the result of having to supress the urge to >strangle the living s**t out of some SOB who richly deserves it. WHY do >so many people put so many other people at risk by spouting such >absolute ignorance as infallable fact? > >I owe Steve an apology for my being testy out here. So here's my public >mea-culpa and may peace and friendship prevail. > >-bG >'83 300 TurboDiesel goes like hell. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #533 *********************************