From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #542 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, April 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 542 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: re: Temperature Gauge and sensor McHenry county... ;) re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor here we (er, john) goes again... RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor What's this Engine? RE: What's this Engine? Re: here we (er, john) goes again... Re: What's this Engine? concrete!!! RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Re: Fwd: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor I found a euro specs 82 to a 78 5cyl swap? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:39:05 -0700 From: john Subject: re: Temperature Gauge and sensor >From: Mike Aimino >Subject: Temperature Gauge and sensor >Howdy. I'm having a problem with the temp gauge and/or sensor in my 300D and >I'd like to get some advice. My temp gauge was acting flaky (needle jumping >erratically), so I replaced the sensor. Now the gauge doesn't move at all, >except when I first turn the key to ON, then it moves up just a notch and >stays there. Bad sensor or bad gauge? Or something else? Thanks. >Mike Aimino >'81 300D (euro) >'83 300TD my temp gauge jumps around a bit too... I was wondering about this too... when you replaced the sensor it quit altogether? Ok, try putting the old sensor back in... DOES THAT FIX IT? if NOT, THEN you have a wiring problem. The wire and connector may be broken internally. It was loose before... and when you removed it it finished it off... I'll check mine next chance I get... The other test would be to put a potentiometer (rheostat) on the lead connected to ground and vary it a bit and see if the gauge responds... my guess is the wiring is our problem... but my track record on these things is really bad... I spent way too much money getting my tach fixed!!! I replaced EVERYTHING and it was the dash cluster part that was the problem... :) it wasn't just expensive, it was a lot of work... :) but, I learned oh so much.... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:43:13 -0700 From: john Subject: McHenry county... ;) >Subject: Re: Looking for recomendations for coils spring solution... >OOOO - that may be a thing to do - a listfest of sorts for us on >diesel-benz. And we could have John fly in to visit his old haunts as he >grew up here in Lake County somewhere, I think. >Keep me posted as to when you are gonna do the work - I could even take a >day off vacation - sure is a nice time of year for a roadtrip. >Dan ChicagoArea not likely this year... just got back from Canada, next trip is to a conference in honolulu, and then as soon as I get back I run down to a men's retreat in olympia... :) however, mitchell SD might be a possibility... my brother in law just had a heart attack earlier this week and my mother in law is having health issues... but no immediate plans yet... but since I only have a handful of relatives still living in the Chicago area that trip isn't likely until 2004... (30th HS reunion ;) If I went back to South Dakota it would be in the Benz, unless the trip was when it might snow, then it'd be in a Jeep. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:54:22 -0700 From: john Subject: re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >Subject: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >I would suggest that it's the gauge being faulty. You should be able to test >the sensor by putting a voltmeter across the sensor with the gauge >disconnected. This where I'm guessing as I'm not sure what type of >thermocouple it is so I can't give you the exact voltage it should be at but >a change of 1 volt from cold to warm on the sensor should indicate a >properly operating sensor. Would anyone happen to know the thermocouple >type being used for this then I could look up the voltage reference chart. aren't these things typically thermistors? of course, silly me, I forgot Rube Goldberg's involvement... ;) typically a thermistor would be the ticket. They have a negative temperature coefficient. As they get hotter they reduce their resistance, thereby allowing more current to flow through the gauge and causing it to read a higher amount/temperature. (oh, there are PTC's, or positive temperature Coeffient thermistors out there... have plans to install some in my truck mirrors. :) wire 'em up, turn 'em on, they'll clear the mirrors and as they get hotter they reduce their current flow... :) pretty cool, huh? rofl... A thermocouple device would tend to be more fragile and unnecessary in a car. A thermocouple system would not require an additional power source. However, the thermocouples I've used in industry tended to be used in higher temperature environments... however the problem there is they read in the micro to milivolts and simple galvanic corrosion that is often encountered in an automotive environment would render them more trouble than they're worth. So I think Rube didn't recommend this route... after all, he does have a reputation to maintain. ;) as far as those idiot light type sensors, they're probably a bi-metallic strip setup, when the temp hits a certain amount the metals meet and ignite the lamp that too many people ignore. later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:03:58 -0700 From: john Subject: here we (er, john) goes again... >Subject: '83 300CD >A friend's father is selling a silver '83 300CD. I'm not sure how many >miles on it, but I recall being told that the car had just turned over >120k when I asked about it several months ago. Last time I saw the car >the blue leather interior was basically flawless. This guy is the >original owner and has apparently taken very good care of the car. I'm >told he wants to get $3500 for it. What do you guys think? >Chris Straut >'85 300D, 91k What do I think??? Chris... can you get the guy to wait to sell this for a couple more years??? I want it. But first I need to sell my '83 300SD, and then go a couple years (months?) to invoke the withdrawal symptoms in order to get the 300CD that ultimately I want to get... ok, where is it? this is tempting... I'd drop the price on my 300SD to get this one if it's in really good shape like you say. The 300SD is an awesome car, but it's too big for my needs. My kids are never with us any more... I'm usually driving it solo... while 25 mpg is great for a car this size, I'd rather be driving a nice sporty 300CD. :) My wife is having second thoughts about selling the Benz now because she's noticed a significant drop in our fuel bill! What's working out real nice is that I don't have to sell any of my rigs at this point in time... :) My J10 isn't going anywhere and the Panel is pretty much a "freebie". :) So, any pictures??? factory sunroof, functional a/c right? cruise and door locks work? no flaring??? I'd prefer a light ivory creme, but silver works... :) seriously, any pictures, where are you? oh now... I fear that you are on the other coast... and that means rust is an issue... you're in New Yawk or some place like that, right??? or are you in Texas, which means the paint is faded... or you're in california, which means I get to travel I-5 AGAIN... (on the way back home tonight I commented that we have covered I-5 from Canada to Mexico... (and I-90 from coast to coast) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:02 -0400 From: Mike Aimino Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor I believe the temp sensors are thermistors. Here's what I did last night: 1. checked the old sensor for continuity - it checked out. 2. checked for current from the sensor connector to the new sensor - no current. 3. checked the new sensor for continuity - no continuity. 4. check for continuity from the connector and the engine block - no continuity. Based on this, I suspect that I have a bad connector AND that the new sensor is faulty. I'm going to put the old sensor back in and rig up a new connector. I'll keep you posted. Thank you to all who responded. I'm not much of an electrician, so every bit helps (I'm not much of a mechanic, either, but even less of an electrician). - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:54 AM Subject: re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >Subject: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >I would suggest that it's the gauge being faulty. You should be able to test >the sensor by putting a voltmeter across the sensor with the gauge >disconnected. This where I'm guessing as I'm not sure what type of >thermocouple it is so I can't give you the exact voltage it should be at but >a change of 1 volt from cold to warm on the sensor should indicate a >properly operating sensor. Would anyone happen to know the thermocouple >type being used for this then I could look up the voltage reference chart. aren't these things typically thermistors? of course, silly me, I forgot Rube Goldberg's involvement... ;) typically a thermistor would be the ticket. They have a negative temperature coefficient. As they get hotter they reduce their resistance, thereby allowing more current to flow through the gauge and causing it to read a higher amount/temperature. (oh, there are PTC's, or positive temperature Coeffient thermistors out there... have plans to install some in my truck mirrors. :) wire 'em up, turn 'em on, they'll clear the mirrors and as they get hotter they reduce their current flow... :) pretty cool, huh? rofl... A thermocouple device would tend to be more fragile and unnecessary in a car. A thermocouple system would not require an additional power source. However, the thermocouples I've used in industry tended to be used in higher temperature environments... however the problem there is they read in the micro to milivolts and simple galvanic corrosion that is often encountered in an automotive environment would render them more trouble than they're worth. So I think Rube didn't recommend this route... after all, he does have a reputation to maintain. ;) as far as those idiot light type sensors, they're probably a bi-metallic strip setup, when the temp hits a certain amount the metals meet and ignite the lamp that too many people ignore. later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:21:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: What's this Engine? I have in front of me a few specs for a diesel engine. What's it from? * Bore: 22 inches * Stroke: 4.5 feet * Cylinders: 9 * BHP: 13,500 - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) (hint: vehicle max speed is 22 MPH) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:42:50 -0400 From: Mike Aimino Subject: RE: What's this Engine? Cooper-Bessemer LSV? In a tug-boat? - -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Kaidor [mailto:jerryk-at-best.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:21 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: What's this Engine? I have in front of me a few specs for a diesel engine. What's it from? * Bore: 22 inches * Stroke: 4.5 feet * Cylinders: 9 * BHP: 13,500 - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) (hint: vehicle max speed is 22 MPH) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:07:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Straut Subject: Re: here we (er, john) goes again... Hi John. I'm out in Bridgeport, West Virginia. Last time I remember looking at the car it was remarkably straight: not one bit of rust. By looking at the size of the guy's house he is pretty well off, so he probably had other cars to drive when the weather was bad. I'm going to take a look at the car sometime next week, and I'll try to get some pictures of it for you. I'll let everyone know how it looks when I go to check it out. I'm not going to buy it - going off to college in August, and I'd rather not be paying insurance for two cars :) Chris On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, john wrote: > >Subject: '83 300CD > >A friend's father is selling a silver '83 300CD. I'm not sure how many > >miles on it, but I recall being told that the car had just turned over > >120k when I asked about it several months ago. Last time I saw the car > >the blue leather interior was basically flawless. This guy is the > >original owner and has apparently taken very good care of the car. I'm > >told he wants to get $3500 for it. What do you guys think? > >Chris Straut > >'85 300D, 91k > > What do I think??? > > Chris... can you get the guy to wait to sell this for a couple more > years??? I want it. But first I need to sell my '83 300SD, and then > go a couple years (months?) to invoke the withdrawal symptoms in > order to get the 300CD that ultimately I want to get... > > ok, where is it? this is tempting... I'd drop the price on my 300SD > to get this one if it's in really good shape like you say. > > The 300SD is an awesome car, but it's too big for my needs. My kids > are never with us any more... I'm usually driving it solo... while 25 mpg > is great for a car this size, I'd rather be driving a nice sporty 300CD. :) > > My wife is having second thoughts about selling the Benz now because > she's noticed a significant drop in our fuel bill! > > What's working out real nice is that I don't have to sell any of my > rigs at this point in time... :) My J10 isn't going anywhere and the > Panel is pretty much a "freebie". :) > > So, any pictures??? factory sunroof, functional a/c right? cruise > and door locks work? no flaring??? > > I'd prefer a light ivory creme, but silver works... :) > > seriously, any pictures, where are you? oh now... I fear that you > are on the other coast... and that means rust is an issue... you're > in New Yawk or some place like that, right??? or are you in Texas, > which means the paint is faded... or you're in california, which means > I get to travel I-5 AGAIN... (on the way back home tonight I commented > that we have covered I-5 from Canada to Mexico... (and I-90 from > coast to coast) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:41:54 -0700 From: Robert Crawford Subject: Re: What's this Engine? I would expect that it is from a sub. Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > I have in front of me a few specs for a diesel engine. What's it from? > > * Bore: 22 inches > * Stroke: 4.5 feet > * Cylinders: 9 > * BHP: 13,500 > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > (hint: vehicle max speed is 22 MPH) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:57:44 -0700 From: john Subject: concrete!!! yee haw... tax return arrived... I'm cleaning out the carport. Anyone in the area is welcome to drop by and help move stuff out of the way. :) Trying to figure out the best way of putting the benches back in and building some new shelves, even thinking about making it two stall... we'll see... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:38:31 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Howdy- The engine coolant sensor for the dash temperature guage is a thermistor. I've attached a Microsoft Excel file showing data for my original (1983 vintage) sensor and a brand new part. I have also been experiencing erratic temp guage behavior lately...the fuel guage has also been twitchy. I haven't noticed that both are misbehaving simultaneously, which might indicate an intermittent power supply to the guage cluster. One of these days i'll get around to troubleshooting both circuits. BTW, has anyone heard of failures in the fuel tank sending unit in the W123 cars from the early to mid eighties? Steve Morelen '84 300D >From: Mike Aimino >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:02 -0400 > >I believe the temp sensors are thermistors. Here's what I did last night: > >1. checked the old sensor for continuity - it checked out. >2. checked for current from the sensor connector to the new sensor - no >current. >3. checked the new sensor for continuity - no continuity. >4. check for continuity from the connector and the engine block - no >continuity. > >Based on this, I suspect that I have a bad connector AND that the new >sensor >is faulty. I'm going to put the old sensor back in and rig up a new >connector. I'll keep you posted. Thank you to all who responded. I'm not >much of an electrician, so every bit helps (I'm not much of a mechanic, >either, but even less of an electrician). > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:54 AM >Subject: re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > > > >Subject: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > >I would suggest that it's the gauge being faulty. You should be able to >test > >the sensor by putting a voltmeter across the sensor with the gauge > >disconnected. This where I'm guessing as I'm not sure what type of > >thermocouple it is so I can't give you the exact voltage it should be at >but > >a change of 1 volt from cold to warm on the sensor should indicate a > >properly operating sensor. Would anyone happen to know the thermocouple > >type being used for this then I could look up the voltage reference >chart. > >aren't these things typically thermistors? >of course, silly me, I forgot Rube Goldberg's involvement... ;) > >typically a thermistor would be the ticket. They have a negative >temperature coefficient. As they get hotter they reduce their >resistance, thereby allowing more current to flow through the gauge >and causing it to read a higher amount/temperature. > >(oh, there are PTC's, or positive temperature Coeffient thermistors >out there... have plans to install some in my truck mirrors. :) wire >'em up, turn 'em on, they'll clear the mirrors and as they get hotter >they reduce their current flow... :) pretty cool, huh? rofl... > >A thermocouple device would tend to be more fragile and unnecessary >in a car. A thermocouple system would not require an additional >power source. However, the thermocouples I've used in industry tended >to be used in higher temperature environments... however the problem >there is they read in the micro to milivolts and simple galvanic corrosion >that is often encountered in an automotive environment would render >them more trouble than they're worth. So I think Rube didn't recommend >this route... after all, he does have a reputation to maintain. ;) > >as far as those idiot light type sensors, they're probably a bi-metallic >strip setup, when the temp hits a certain amount the metals meet >and ignite the lamp that too many people ignore. > >later, >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com [demime 0.97b removed an attachment of type application/msexcel which had a name of Benz_thermistor_data.xls] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:54:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Steve Morelen wrote: >-->Hey John- >-->I tried to attach an excel file to this message and I perceive that the >-->diesel benz mail server stripped the attachment from the message. Is there >-->a way around this? sure, email it to me, I'll convert it to HTML and put it on my server. Or you could cut and paste it into a message in plain text. looking forward to seeing the characteristics of the thermistor... I've gotten rid of most of my circuit design stuff. However, there's a EE (that's pronounced DOUBLE E for you liberal arts types) that takes care of all our components. If you have vendor name and part number I can get the data on line, most of that data is on CD now. john >--> >-->Steve Morelen >--> >--> >-->>From: "Steve Morelen" >-->>To: maimino-at-ServiceWare.Com, diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->>Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >-->>Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:38:31 -0400 >-->> >-->>Howdy- >-->>The engine coolant sensor for the dash temperature guage is a thermistor. >-->>I've attached a Microsoft Excel file showing data for my original (1983 >-->>vintage) sensor and a brand new part. I have also been experiencing >-->>erratic >-->>temp guage behavior lately...the fuel guage has also been twitchy. I >-->>haven't noticed that both are misbehaving simultaneously, which might >-->>indicate an intermittent power supply to the guage cluster. One of these >-->>days i'll get around to troubleshooting both circuits. BTW, has anyone >-->>heard of failures in the fuel tank sending unit in the W123 cars from the >-->>early to mid eighties? >-->> >-->>Steve Morelen >-->>'84 300D >-->> >-->> >-->> >From: Mike Aimino >-->> >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> >Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >-->> >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:02 -0400 >-->> > >-->> >I believe the temp sensors are thermistors. Here's what I did last night: >-->> > >-->> >1. checked the old sensor for continuity - it checked out. >-->> >2. checked for current from the sensor connector to the new sensor - no >-->> >current. >-->> >3. checked the new sensor for continuity - no continuity. >-->> >4. check for continuity from the connector and the engine block - no >-->> >continuity. >-->> > >-->> >Based on this, I suspect that I have a bad connector AND that the new >-->> >sensor >-->> >is faulty. I'm going to put the old sensor back in and rig up a new >-->> >connector. I'll keep you posted. Thank you to all who responded. I'm not >-->> >much of an electrician, so every bit helps (I'm not much of a mechanic, >-->> >either, but even less of an electrician). >-->> > >-->> >-----Original Message----- >-->> >From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >-->> >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:54 AM >-->> >Subject: re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >Subject: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >-->> > >I would suggest that it's the gauge being faulty. You should be able to >-->> >test >-->> > >the sensor by putting a voltmeter across the sensor with the gauge >-->> > >disconnected. This where I'm guessing as I'm not sure what type of >-->> > >thermocouple it is so I can't give you the exact voltage it should be >-->>at >-->> >but >-->> > >a change of 1 volt from cold to warm on the sensor should indicate a >-->> > >properly operating sensor. Would anyone happen to know the thermocouple >-->> > >type being used for this then I could look up the voltage reference >-->> >chart. >-->> > >-->> >aren't these things typically thermistors? >-->> >of course, silly me, I forgot Rube Goldberg's involvement... ;) >-->> > >-->> >typically a thermistor would be the ticket. They have a negative >-->> >temperature coefficient. As they get hotter they reduce their >-->> >resistance, thereby allowing more current to flow through the gauge >-->> >and causing it to read a higher amount/temperature. >-->> > >-->> >(oh, there are PTC's, or positive temperature Coeffient thermistors >-->> >out there... have plans to install some in my truck mirrors. :) wire >-->> >'em up, turn 'em on, they'll clear the mirrors and as they get hotter >-->> >they reduce their current flow... :) pretty cool, huh? rofl... >-->> > >-->> >A thermocouple device would tend to be more fragile and unnecessary >-->> >in a car. A thermocouple system would not require an additional >-->> >power source. However, the thermocouples I've used in industry tended >-->> >to be used in higher temperature environments... however the problem >-->> >there is they read in the micro to milivolts and simple galvanic >-->>corrosion >-->> >that is often encountered in an automotive environment would render >-->> >them more trouble than they're worth. So I think Rube didn't recommend >-->> >this route... after all, he does have a reputation to maintain. ;) >-->> > >-->> >as far as those idiot light type sensors, they're probably a bi-metallic >-->> >strip setup, when the temp hits a certain amount the metals meet >-->> >and ignite the lamp that too many people ignore. >-->> > >-->> >later, >-->> >john >-->> >------------------------------------------------------ >-->> > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >-->> > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >-->> > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >-->> >------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->>_________________________________________________________________ >-->>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >-->> >-->>[demime 0.97b removed an attachment of type application/msexcel which had a >-->>name of Benz_thermistor_data.xls] >--> >-->_________________________________________________________________ >-->Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:59:32 -0400 From: "S.D.Byers" Subject: I found a euro specs 123 chassis 300D non-turbo being parted out. Lights are gone but the 4spd manual and flywheel are present. He also has a US Spec 123 300D non-turbo with an allegedly rebuildable engine. I pulled the exhaust manifold off and the coolant eletric pump. They are in Denver, email me for details. SDB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:18:08 -0400 From: "John Heflin" Subject: 82 to a 78 5cyl swap? one of the guys in my band is donating one of his 300D's sometime soon, but he said If I wanted to swap out the engine first we could (as well as get the wheels for my other benz). His is an '82 300D turbo, mine is a '78 240D. Should this be a fairly easy swap? I know John will say "with a blowtorch anything is possible..." :) but my current project is putting the 4.5L into a 69 280SE and now I'm trying to decide what to do with the wiring harness, the guy before me cut it out of the car the engine was from! (can anyone get a picture of a dash from a 72'ish 280 or 300 SE or SEL? for me?) anyways, any ideas would help... could this be done in a weekend since everything is mostly similar? (definitly easier than the 280 conversion) I'd need the car asap and it doesnt look like the 280 will be ready to help out in time. John the donor car is on the left in this picture http://www.crosswinds.net/~ttdmc/dieselbenz/3dieselbenz.jpg oh, and I already have a nice lift :) 280 work in progress at: http://www.crosswinds.net/~ttdmc/dieselbenz/280SE/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #542 *********************************