From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #543 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 543 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles John Meister Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Re: What's this Engine? Re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Fwd: Re: What's this Engine? parts RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:36:54 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor I can't speak for a W123, but my W126 sender totally failed. When I took it out of the tank it totally "fell apart". (Taking the sender out was easy: Just remove the rear seat which takes about 5 minutes tops, and remove the platic grommit on the driver's side of the car right below the rear deck/windshield, unplug the connector, and the sender screws out... you need something like a 25 - 30 MM socket to do it though). The sender float and all is in a long metal cylinder housing that comes right out of the tank, but my cylinder housing totally came apart exposing float and all the other stuff in it. Mike M. '83 300SD W126 >From: "Steve Morelen" >To: maimino-at-ServiceWare.Com, diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:38:31 -0400 > >Howdy- >The engine coolant sensor for the dash temperature guage is a thermistor. >I've attached a Microsoft Excel file showing data for my original (1983 >vintage) sensor and a brand new part. I have also been experiencing >erratic >temp guage behavior lately...the fuel guage has also been twitchy. I >haven't noticed that both are misbehaving simultaneously, which might >indicate an intermittent power supply to the guage cluster. One of these >days i'll get around to troubleshooting both circuits. BTW, has anyone >heard of failures in the fuel tank sending unit in the W123 cars from the >early to mid eighties? > >Steve Morelen >'84 300D > > > >From: Mike Aimino > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:02 -0400 > > > >I believe the temp sensors are thermistors. Here's what I did last night: > > > >1. checked the old sensor for continuity - it checked out. > >2. checked for current from the sensor connector to the new sensor - no > >current. > >3. checked the new sensor for continuity - no continuity. > >4. check for continuity from the connector and the engine block - no > >continuity. > > > >Based on this, I suspect that I have a bad connector AND that the new > >sensor > >is faulty. I'm going to put the old sensor back in and rig up a new > >connector. I'll keep you posted. Thank you to all who responded. I'm not > >much of an electrician, so every bit helps (I'm not much of a mechanic, > >either, but even less of an electrician). > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] > >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:54 AM > >Subject: re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > > > > > > >Subject: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > > >I would suggest that it's the gauge being faulty. You should be able to > >test > > >the sensor by putting a voltmeter across the sensor with the gauge > > >disconnected. This where I'm guessing as I'm not sure what type of > > >thermocouple it is so I can't give you the exact voltage it should be >at > >but > > >a change of 1 volt from cold to warm on the sensor should indicate a > > >properly operating sensor. Would anyone happen to know the thermocouple > > >type being used for this then I could look up the voltage reference > >chart. > > > >aren't these things typically thermistors? > >of course, silly me, I forgot Rube Goldberg's involvement... ;) > > > >typically a thermistor would be the ticket. They have a negative > >temperature coefficient. As they get hotter they reduce their > >resistance, thereby allowing more current to flow through the gauge > >and causing it to read a higher amount/temperature. > > > >(oh, there are PTC's, or positive temperature Coeffient thermistors > >out there... have plans to install some in my truck mirrors. :) wire > >'em up, turn 'em on, they'll clear the mirrors and as they get hotter > >they reduce their current flow... :) pretty cool, huh? rofl... > > > >A thermocouple device would tend to be more fragile and unnecessary > >in a car. A thermocouple system would not require an additional > >power source. However, the thermocouples I've used in industry tended > >to be used in higher temperature environments... however the problem > >there is they read in the micro to milivolts and simple galvanic >corrosion > >that is often encountered in an automotive environment would render > >them more trouble than they're worth. So I think Rube didn't recommend > >this route... after all, he does have a reputation to maintain. ;) > > > >as far as those idiot light type sensors, they're probably a bi-metallic > >strip setup, when the temp hits a certain amount the metals meet > >and ignite the lamp that too many people ignore. > > > >later, > >john > >------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >------------------------------------------------------- > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >[demime 0.97b removed an attachment of type application/msexcel which had a >name of Benz_thermistor_data.xls] _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:28:28 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: Re: What's this Engine? A Marine engine? Like for a larger boat/ship? Or maybe one of those huge crane's that sometimes you see on the road that say "Oversized Load"? Mike M. '83 300SD W126 >From: Jerome Kaidor >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: What's this Engine? >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:21:29 -0700 (PDT) > >I have in front of me a few specs for a diesel engine. What's it from? > > * Bore: 22 inches > * Stroke: 4.5 feet > * Cylinders: 9 > * BHP: 13,500 > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > (hint: vehicle max speed is 22 MPH) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:19:22 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Once y'all get this nailed down why don't you write up "a faq even a fool can follow"? My '80 240D temp gauge is doing exactly the same thing. Keep up the good work, men! As you were! VT ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:10:00 -0400 From: "Steve Morelen" Subject: Fwd: Re: What's this Engine? Yeah..I believe that marine engine is a good guess. I'd also bet that the max crankshaft speed is only a few hundred revs per minute, maybe even less, given the stroke length. Steve Morelen >From: "Mike Mehringer" >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: What's this Engine? >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:28:28 > > A Marine engine? Like for a larger boat/ship? Or maybe one of those >huge crane's that sometimes you see on the road that say "Oversized Load"? > >Mike M. >'83 300SD W126 > >>From: Jerome Kaidor >>To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >>Subject: What's this Engine? >>Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:21:29 -0700 (PDT) >> >>I have in front of me a few specs for a diesel engine. What's it from? >> >> * Bore: 22 inches >> * Stroke: 4.5 feet >> * Cylinders: 9 >> * BHP: 13,500 >> >> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >> >> (hint: vehicle max speed is 22 MPH) > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 21:57:04 -0700 From: john Subject: parts I'm uploading parts pictures, going to put them on ebay in the next week or so. http://wagoneers.com/4sale/ major stuff includes parts from the '96 xj, tachometer parts and the blower from my '83 300sd, factory mirrors for both an xj and an FSJ, a couple manuals (MR253) and a '79. a 4v carb and manifold for a 327 Jeep. and so on... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:59:08 -0400 From: Mike Aimino Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Thanks, Steve. As a matter of fact, I just replace the fuel tank sending unit in my '83 300TD. I found a fuel tank at a salvage yard and, luckily, the sending unit was good. Had to borrow a 2 1/8 inch socket to get the bugger out of there. - -----Original Message----- From: Steve Morelen [mailto:smorelen-at-hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 9:39 PM To: maimino-at-ServiceWare.Com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor Howdy- The engine coolant sensor for the dash temperature guage is a thermistor. I've attached a Microsoft Excel file showing data for my original (1983 vintage) sensor and a brand new part. I have also been experiencing erratic temp guage behavior lately...the fuel guage has also been twitchy. I haven't noticed that both are misbehaving simultaneously, which might indicate an intermittent power supply to the guage cluster. One of these days i'll get around to troubleshooting both circuits. BTW, has anyone heard of failures in the fuel tank sending unit in the W123 cars from the early to mid eighties? Steve Morelen '84 300D >From: Mike Aimino >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:02 -0400 > >I believe the temp sensors are thermistors. Here's what I did last night: > >1. checked the old sensor for continuity - it checked out. >2. checked for current from the sensor connector to the new sensor - no >current. >3. checked the new sensor for continuity - no continuity. >4. check for continuity from the connector and the engine block - no >continuity. > >Based on this, I suspect that I have a bad connector AND that the new >sensor >is faulty. I'm going to put the old sensor back in and rig up a new >connector. I'll keep you posted. Thank you to all who responded. I'm not >much of an electrician, so every bit helps (I'm not much of a mechanic, >either, but even less of an electrician). > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:54 AM >Subject: re: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > > > >Subject: FW: Temperature Gauge and sensor > >I would suggest that it's the gauge being faulty. You should be able to >test > >the sensor by putting a voltmeter across the sensor with the gauge > >disconnected. This where I'm guessing as I'm not sure what type of > >thermocouple it is so I can't give you the exact voltage it should be at >but > >a change of 1 volt from cold to warm on the sensor should indicate a > >properly operating sensor. Would anyone happen to know the thermocouple > >type being used for this then I could look up the voltage reference >chart. > >aren't these things typically thermistors? >of course, silly me, I forgot Rube Goldberg's involvement... ;) > >typically a thermistor would be the ticket. They have a negative >temperature coefficient. As they get hotter they reduce their >resistance, thereby allowing more current to flow through the gauge >and causing it to read a higher amount/temperature. > >(oh, there are PTC's, or positive temperature Coeffient thermistors >out there... have plans to install some in my truck mirrors. :) wire >'em up, turn 'em on, they'll clear the mirrors and as they get hotter >they reduce their current flow... :) pretty cool, huh? rofl... > >A thermocouple device would tend to be more fragile and unnecessary >in a car. A thermocouple system would not require an additional >power source. However, the thermocouples I've used in industry tended >to be used in higher temperature environments... however the problem >there is they read in the micro to milivolts and simple galvanic corrosion >that is often encountered in an automotive environment would render >them more trouble than they're worth. So I think Rube didn't recommend >this route... after all, he does have a reputation to maintain. ;) > >as far as those idiot light type sensors, they're probably a bi-metallic >strip setup, when the temp hits a certain amount the metals meet >and ignite the lamp that too many people ignore. > >later, >john >------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #543 *********************************