From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #586 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, July 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 586 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: re: fuse#2 and battery drain book for sale Ham Radio? A msg for you. john's ebay parts more ebay... Re: Greetings and salutations. john's ebay - it's a new day. :) W123 Electrical Problems RE: Ham Radio? A msg for you. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:53:26 -0700 From: john Subject: re: fuse#2 and battery drain the radio has a filter, capacitor... with fuse out and battery disconnected use ohm meter to see if there is a short or leak. disconnect back of radio first. I have no manuals now... systematically trace items on that buss and remove items one by one. look for wires rubbing. even the clock will have a small capacitor in it, if that goes bad it could leak voltage down... look for aftermarket stereo filters... it's not likely a dead short, but a failing component. pull the dash assembly out and test too... can't type much. :) john >Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:44:41 -0400 >From: "John Heflin" >Subject: fuse #2 >My fuse diagram says the radio is on fuse #4 but I have #2 taken out while >I'm trying to find why my battery keeps draining. My radio won't work when >#2 is out so I guess its on that line. >Anyone know why when I put an ammeter to #2 it makes the needle surge then >drops back down to 0? If I touch it again right away, it will surge, but >only a little, the more I wait inbetween times, the more it will jump. Is >there some kind of capacitor storing energy somewhere on the #2 line? It >says that only a few small lights are on that line, but since the radio is >on there too, I'm wondering what else is. I do know that #2 should be >drawing some current for the clock when off but, I took the clock out and it >still jumps. >I'd like to get my radio back in service, but not have to jump the dead >thing every time I start it. >John --> 78 240D - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:46:39 -0700 From: john Subject: book for sale "Magnificent Mercedes", isbn 0-517-405377 hardbound, 224 pgs, with dustcover, color pix dustcover worn, book and pages excellent complete history of the marque, graham robson - 1983 copyright $25 plus $5 shipping... paypal accepted. otherwise it'll go up on ebay... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 20:24:02 -0700 From: john Subject: Ham Radio? A msg for you. passing this along. I attended a SANS (System Administration and Network Security) Conference in Hawaii in May on Securing Unix... lots of good info and resources... john (not a ham) From: Alan for the SANS NewsBites service Re: July 4 SANS NewsBites ************************* - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ham Radio Operators? The threat to critical Internet resources from distributed denial of service attack tools continues to increase. An effective emergency communications network may be of great value if damage is done to both the Internet and to phone systems. SANS is looking for ham and packet radio operators who are willing to take a leadership role to help establish and maintain an emergency communication channel. If you are qualified and interested please send an email telling us about your ham radio and computer security activities. Send it to info-at-sans.org with Emergency Communications Network in the subject line. - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 23:17:01 -0700 From: john Subject: john's ebay parts I'm starting to post parts and such on ebay... (mostly FSJ stuff so far so I haven't posted details to this list... ;) http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dieseljohn john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 23:49:29 -0700 From: john Subject: more ebay... 95 Amp battery isolator (had it in my '85 xj turbo Diesel!) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081279 helper springs http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081315 to view all auction items: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dieseljohn that's it for me tonight... won't be back on line until Friday... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:22:30 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Greetings and salutations. The DBA Meeting (Diesel-Benz-Aholics) began with the familiar refrain: > Name is Derick and I live in the Bremerton Washington area. I have owned a diesel Benz since April of 1998. [ All together, now ] "Hello, Derick!" > I have a 1985 190d. I am currently "renewing the engine". If you have questions on the W201 body or > the 601.911 style engine (601.921). I may be able to help with reference material or my past experience. Did this engine require rebuilding due to mucho miles or was it's demise a result of abuse? > I am hopefully going to add a 1972 220d to my driveway in the next couple of weeks. I will need > some indoctrination on the 115 chasis. The first thing you'll notice is much more room to work around the engine compared to your W201. I owned a '73 220 (Gas) back in '78. There was a 220D for sale at the same time I was looking at the 220, but I passed on it because I thought the diesels were more more expensive to maintain. I finally bought my first diesel in 1981 (VW Rabbit) and have been a dieselhead ever since. If I could turn the clock back to '78, I wouldn't have given the 220 even a first look. I love my diesels! > Still learning the "list Mom" job, so bear with me. We're a relatively quiet group, but you have to watch out for a few people. That Alec guy in Texas put his best foot forward when he introduced himself earlier. Keep an eye on him.... ;-) Another one is Diesel Dan from Washington. He doesn't come around very often. He drives a big diesel rig (tractor trailer, not S class...) but evidently can't read a map 'cuz he gets lost for long periods of time... :-O One of these days I'm going to hear an air horn blowing in front of my house and find Dan and Alec standing there with brass knuckles... The only other troublemaker of note is a guy by the name of John who purports to be our former list Mom. He's one of those full sized Jeep types, which should tell you something... He has occasionally owned MB diesels and complained about them when he did. He's trouble when he's been MBless. When he starts thinking about buying another one you'd better get your tranquilizer darts ready. He'll work himself up into such a state of frenzy that sedation will be required to keep him from getting hurt... :-P He's harmless, though, and does take some pretty good pictures. Me? I'm just your average mild mannered dieselholic. I've owned two MB's. The '73 I mentioned earlier and my current '81 240D. While I like my MB, it's the diesel engine I love. My other two diesels were the '81 Rabbit and a '90 Jetta. I drove the first one 250,000 miles before I got the new diesel bug. My Jetta had 227,000 miles on it when I traded it for my 240D. The MB had almost 194,000 miles on the odometer when I bought her in Feb. of '98. She just crossed 280,000 and runs just fine. I have had occasional thoughts about returning to the gas powered world. I keep hearing about these gas engines that have something called "power"...what's that? Once I hear that gas car idle, or can't hear it in the case of some of them, it's back to my "klatta klatta klatta" euphoria... It's music to my ears! Welcome aboard! Jon '81 240D 280,000 mi. "Mathilde" Just getting over a case of ignitionswitchitis... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 00:47:32 -0700 From: john Subject: john's ebay - it's a new day. :) here's the complete list, calling it a night... happy shopping: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dieseljohn Here's what I just put up, ok, so I slip "off-topic" a bit with some of these items... ;) jeep xj 4.0L engine computer (1988) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081596 jeep FSJ wagoneer tail light lenses only - both sides, with backup lenses: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081381 AVM locking hubs, came off of SuperDawg. One side had worked loose and I just replaced them with new Warn hubs. Should be ok. Nice spare set for hardcore wheelers... ;) came off a dana 44F, don't know the spline count without looking... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081438 better picture: http://www.wagoneers.com/ebay/FSJ-parts/avm-hubs-1.jpg new Durango radio: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081482 mustang wheel covers... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081515 euro lights for a 126 series Benz: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593081554 heading to portland for a daytrip on thursday(today), will be off line until friday... if you can email your phone # in the portland area before 8am I may try to call and visit... wife and daughter are going shopping... I'll be sitting outside... not sure where yet. ;) I'll hook up my Palm Vx and snatch email before heading out... :) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 05:38:07 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: W123 Electrical Problems A month or so ago there were some questions about intermittent electrical problems on the W123's. I don't remember who was involved, but I'd been having some of the same problems with my '81 240D and had responded detailing the repairs I'd made. Those repairs had helped, but didn't completely solve the problem. I'm going to type this very quietly so my car can't hear what I'm about to say. She's heard me in the past and has presented a new malady afterwards. Me paranoid??? NAW! But, I do tell her daily "Mathilde, I love you honey. Pleeeeeeaaaase take care of me!" and it normally works..... ;-) I think my electrical problems are fixed! Symptoms: While driving down the road, the electric shuts down, then starts back up. Since this is a diesel, the engine continues about it's merry way. When the power comes back up, the idiot lights light up like when you first start the car and everything returns to normal. Initially, the whole process only lasted a few seconds. It got progressively worse and would stay off upwards of 45 minutes! When it stayed off, only the alternator light was lit. On a few occasions, the car wouldn't start. This problem continued to plague me for almost two months until we got to the bottom of it. The conditions varied, but generally happened when it was wet (raining or just after or driving through a water puddle), but happened several times when it was dry, and at night, but did it during the day many times, too. When the power dumped, I would usually be running the heater/blower motor (the setting didn't seem to matter) and my radar detector would be plugged in, but it happened when neither was the case on a few occasions. The A/C wasn't in use (it's out...that's a different story) and the radio wasn't turned on. Why I use a radar detector with this 240D is beyond me....I just do. When the power didn't come back on after a few seconds, the alternator light would glow fairly bright. The heater blower motor wouldn't run, I'd have no power at the cigarette lighter, no turn signals or brake lights, and no windshield wipers. It was loads of fun when the power shut down during a hard rain storm... If I tapped the brake, or attempted to use the turn signals, the alternator light would shine brighter. At night, my headlights stayed on, as did all the marker lights. Repairs: The problem first happened around the end of April. For the next month, the power stayed off no more than a few seconds. I didn't notice it until I heard the radar detector power up. When the problem became more frequent, I serviced the battery. The fluid level was a little low, there was some sulfation visible inside and much corrosion around the battery. I cleaned all that up. I, also, replaced all the fuses and cleaned the contacts in the fuse box and checked the wiring from the alternator, starter and battery for signs of frayed wires. All the wires appeared ok. The problem continued to get worse. The power was staying off for longer periods of time. Towards the end of May, I took the car back to my mechanic. He'd replaced the alternator in February with a factory rebuilt Bosch unit. He determined that the alternator was bad and replaced it. All was well for a few weeks. On the way to work, we had a small rain shower and the alternator light came on. I made it to work, but the car wouldn't start when I went to go home. I charged the battery, but still no go. My daughter came to get me and I drove her car for a few days...I hate Cavaliers! I called Dennis, my mechanic, and he said it sounded like a bad chassis ground. This round of repairs consisted of removing the battery ground cable from the chassis, cleaning it, and doing the same for the chassis ground on the drivers side. It runs from the wheel well to the engine. Neither were corroded. The surfaces were milky white, but smooth. A little polishing with emery cloth cleaned them up. All was well, again... Last week the problem came back with a vengeance! That was it! As Popeye used to say, "I can'ts takes it no more!" I decided to replace the battery since I'd seen corrosion in the cells. I didn't think that was causing the problem, but may have been contributing to it. I did a little research on the net to see what my options were and found out the previous owner had the wrong battery in the car. Our W123 diesels take a size 49 battery and I had a 41... The size 41 is approximately 11.5"x7"x6.5" tall and has a CCA rating of 650. The size 49 is around 13.6"x7"x7.6" with a CCA of 850... Sunday night I woke up at 2:30 in the morning. I'd been dreaming about how to fix this problem... I grabbed my Haynes manual (it's better than nothing...) and went over the wiring diagrams until my eyes crossed... The only thing that made sense was the ignition switch or possibly the glow plug relay. I decided to replace the battery to see if that helped and, if not, look into either the ignition switch and glow plug relay. So, Monday of this week I go to get a battery. I knew Walmart didn't stock it and decided to take a chance with Sears. 10 minutes after leaving the house, the alternator light came on. I went straight to my mechanic's shop, walked in and cried "Uncle". He said "Oh no, not the alternator again!". I told him I didn't think the alternator was the culprit. He hopped in the car, it was still running, and wiggled the ignition switch and said that was very likely the source. I told him that was the conclusion I'd come to, also. I mentioned the relay, but he said if the battery didn't go dead overnight, that was probably not the problem. I shut down the car while he ordered the part. Just for grins I checked the voltage at the battery. It was 12.96 volts. Dennis was getting set to close for the day and offered me a beer. We talked for a while then I got in the car to leave. I turned the key...nothing...nada... He put his quick charger on it for about three minutes, then! told me to try it. She cranked right up. He said "Get a battery". Now, knowing that the size 49's may be hard to find, I asked him if he stocked it. He's a small shop and doesn't keep more than routine maintenance parts on hand. He can get almost anything the next day, so I've learned to plan ahead. He did have one in stock, though. I asked him if he wanted to put it in before I left. He thought a second, and said "Get me a beer!" ;-) I came back Tuesday, and he replaced the entire ignition switch...the lock assembly, steering lock and the ignition switch. As it turns out, the lock assembly was so worn, the key wouldn't stay in the run position which was causing the loss of electric. I've driven about a day and a half, some 70 miles, and haven't had any problems. It appears that did the trick. Throughout this ordeal, I've continued to drive the car 100 miles a day, round trip, and haven't been stranded except that one time. Ya gotta love diesels! I laugh at my coworkers who make fun of my lack of power and wonder why I drive a diesel, and a 20 year old one at that. They're still laughing about the time a guy on a bicycle beat me off the line at a stop light and had to stop to let me turn in front of him.... But, they just don't get it. Every time they complain of having problems starting their gas powered cars, or can't drive them because of electrical problems, I just grin... Our W123's are getting old. I am seeing more and more electrical problems being reported. Glow plug relays, which seldom go out, are popping up frequently. My problem turns out to have been more mechanical in nature. Most of the repairs I've had to do on Mathilde were done for the first time. I've used OEM parts and expect them to last almost as long as the original. How many cars can claim getting 250,000 miles off the factory shocks? I expect that many miles, or more, from the Bilsteins that Dennis installed. When you get down to it, how many 20 year old cars do you see on the road that didn't need major repairs to get them roadworthy? You get what you pay for. In our case, if we bought it used, we paid a fraction of what the car originally sold for and can still get reliable service out of our vehicles. One last thought, developing a good relationship with an independent MB mechanic can be the most beneficial thing you can do for your car. It will save you a lot of money. Most of the repairs I did this last few months were suggested by Dennis. If I'd been dealing with the local dealer, I'd have spent 2-3 times as much as I did. Sorry for the length of this post, but I thought this information might be helpful to many of our list members. Jon '81 240D 280,000 mi. "Mathilde" The EverReady bunnie has nothing on her! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:21:36 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: Ham Radio? A msg for you. Great irony here: The communications network for the whole world brought to its knees by 14 yr olds using a household appliance and software shared among other teens -- world saved by actions of adults old enough to remember who Samuel Morse was, using communications methods mostly reserved for corporate interests -- It is the opposite of most cartoon show plots. Just don't try to imagine the Legion of Hams in their super-hero tights-costumes. Sam > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:24 PM > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: Ham Radio? A msg for you. > > > passing this along. > > I attended a SANS (System Administration and Network Security) Conference > in Hawaii in May on Securing Unix... lots of good info and resources... > > john (not a ham) > > From: Alan for the SANS NewsBites service > Re: July 4 SANS NewsBites > ************************* > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > Ham Radio Operators? > The threat to critical Internet resources from distributed denial of > service attack tools continues to increase. An effective emergency > communications network may be of great value if damage is done to both > the Internet and to phone systems. SANS is looking for ham and packet > radio operators who are willing to take a leadership role to help > establish and maintain an emergency communication channel. If you are > qualified and interested please send an email telling us about your ham > radio and computer security activities. Send it to info-at-sans.org with > Emergency Communications Network in the subject line. > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #586 *********************************