From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #645 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, September 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 645 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: test message Re: 1984 300D W123 starts RE: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## RE: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## test message pictures - powerpoint... test msg - diesel-benz list some good news... vehicle recovery another test Re: 1984 300D W123 starts Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:54:10 -0700 From: john Subject: test message just a quick test message... disregard... john - ---------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.helpmewithbiblestudy.org/ http://www.freegift.net/ - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:04:20 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: 1984 300D W123 starts Rand wrote: > I do notice that when I shut the car down and take the key off, the check > battery light comes on. Is this normal? Or do I need to pay attention to > this before I get stuck on the side of the road somewhere? I assume you mean, when you turn the key off, the battery light comes on. If so, that's normal. Once the engine shuts down, the light goes out. Once it's off, you pull the key. No lights should be showing. If not, you've entered the twilight zone... Jon '81 240D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:44:19 -0700 From: ccordova-at-avaya.com Subject: RE: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## May I suggest an alternative that may in fact be more likely? It sounds like your system is not adding extra fuel when the turbo is adding extra air. I don't know the technical details, but they may appear in the list archives (where did they run off to?), or in the archives of the Mercedes Mailing List (www.mercedesmailinglist.com), or somewhere on www.mbz.org. Search for ALDA or banjo bolts. There is a device on the injection pump that has some vacuum line connections. That is the ALDA, and it makes the injection pump spit out more fuel when the turbo is pumping. It's common for some of the vacuum lines involved in this subsystem to get clogged. The archives should be able to point you to the right hoses and connections to clean out. If this is the case, you basically have a non-turbo 300D motor with the added exhaust back pressure of the turbo. All this in a car that's heavier than a 240D, so I'm not surprised that it's slow. It may also be useful to confirm that other vacuum-related systems are working properly. Do the doors lock and unlock, does the motor stop in less than one second when you turn off the key, does the transmission shift more than a little abruptly? Vacuum is used all over this car, and although the systems are somewhat isolated, they can each have unanticipated side effects when things go awry. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 95 C280 89 300CE - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:02 AM To: richard Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## At 12:37 AM 9/13/01 -0500, richard wrote: >i have a 1983 300-sd , 227, 000 ... >starts instantly, now oil, in exhaust gasses, idles/runs smoothly, turbo >whines....as normal..but >seems to have less power that a 240 d.... >i just picked this car up, and recall my 81 300-sd having good >acceleration... >what should i caheck change for proper power out put, >thanking you in advance >richard should do 0 to 60 mph in around 15 seconds. Best wishes... john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:26:57 From: "Mike Mehringer" Subject: RE: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## Hello: I had the same exact problem with my '83 300SD too... and I found it to be the Over-pressure protection system. There is a pressure switch behind the air cleaner, near the back end of the engine, on top (near the firewall) that is screwed into the intake manifold. I found it easier to remove the air cleaner housing to see it better. There is one wire coming from the top of it. This is the over pressure cutoff switch, when this switch actuates, it will stifle/halt all turbo performance. There is a relay looking thing on the drivers side of the car, (under the hood) mounted on the firewall (the outer firewall in the engine compartment) with a 2 prong plug going into it. This is the cutoff relay that the aforementioned over pressure cutoff switch connects to. Try unplugging the relay (the 2 prong connector) and drive the car (a SHORT distance, don't wind up the engine to high!), you will probably notice all the power return. If this is the case, you MAY need a new over pressure cutoff switch on the intake manifold, provided the switch is indeed bad and malfunctioning like mine was. If the switch and the over boost protection system is working properly, then that means your turbo is indeed providing too much boost to the engine, and the wastgate valve is faulty for allowing the overboost to occur.... however if this was the case, then you WOULD have boost pressure (and power) to the point it starts over boosting, and THEN you would notice all performance going into the sh*tter when the over boost protection kicked in. So try all this, and keep us updated.... Mike M. '83 300SD W126 >From: ccordova-at-avaya.com >To: juju34-at-texoma.net >CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## >Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:44:19 -0700 > >May I suggest an alternative that may in fact be more likely? > >It sounds like your system is not adding extra fuel when the turbo is a >dding >extra air. I don't know the technical details, but they may appear in the >list archives (where did they run off to?), or in the archives of the >Mercedes Mailing List (www.mercedesmailinglist.com), or somewhere on >www.mbz.org. Search for ALDA or banjo bolts. There is a device on the >injection pump that has some vacuum line connections. That is the ALDA, and >it makes the injection pump spit out more fuel when the turbo is pumping. >It's common for some of the vacuum lines involved in this subsystem to get >clogged. The archives should be able to point you to the right hoses and >connections to clean out. > >If this is the case, you basically have a non-turbo 300D motor with the >added exhaust back pressure of the turbo. All this in a car that's heavier >than a 240D, so I'm not surprised that it's slow. > >It may also be useful to confirm that other vacuum-related systems are >working properly. Do the doors lock and unlock, does the motor stop in less >than one second when you turn off the key, does the transmission shift more >than a little abruptly? Vacuum is used all over this car, and although the >systems are somewhat isolated, they can each have unanticipated side >effects >when things go awry. > >Good luck, >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >95 C280 89 300CE > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On >Behalf Of john >Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:02 AM >To: richard >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: ##########1984 200-sd...slow######## > >At 12:37 AM 9/13/01 -0500, richard wrote: > >i have a 1983 300-sd , 227, 000 ... > >starts instantly, now oil, in exhaust gasses, idles/runs smoothly, turbo > >whines....as normal..but > >seems to have less power that a 240 d.... > >i just picked this car up, and recall my 81 300-sd having good > >acceleration... > >what should i caheck change for proper power out put, > >thanking you in advance > >richard > >should do 0 to 60 mph in around 15 seconds. > > >Best wishes... > > john > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: test message If you're not on the diesel-benz list, please reply to this message and include all internet headers. thanx, john-at-wagoneers.com ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: pictures - powerpoint... powerpoint slide shows, zipped... unzips as *.pps http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/TERRORIST-ATTACK-NYC/ other History info http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/ if you have something you want to share, email it to me and I'll put it in this directory... be sure to include sources... john ===================================================================== http://www.wagoneers.com/ john-at-wagoneers.com ===================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:15:24 -0700 From: john Subject: test msg - diesel-benz list If you get this message and you are NOT on the diesel-benz list, please reply. It seems someone in Zaire gets a message from me every time I email the list! :) I sent a test message from pine on my Linux server today and haven't heard back yet... So another test from eudora on windoze tonight... I checked my entire address book, only one .za address in there, and he's on the jeep xj list... If someone is forwarding their mail to another address, please check the address, that's the only thing I can think is happening. anyway, hope all is well where you are. john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:10:44 -0700 From: john Subject: some good news... ...just got an email from my friend in NYC that I used to work with about 4 yrs ago. Turns out he'd moved from Manhatten... into the Empire State Bldg. He said the doorman saw the plane fly by... he was very thankful that the Empire State Bldg had been spared... He is pretty disgusted with NYC right now... Another friend who lives right across the street from the WTC was able to rescue his cats today, but not his vehicle... he and his family are ok and have a safe place to stay... but he said the destruction was far greater than what is shown on tv... He said he couldn't even bring himself to take pictures of it... He may send me some pictures later... I've gotten a couple of powerpoint slide presentations and other info and put them up at: http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/TERRORIST-ATTACK-NYC/ http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/ check back, I won't bother you again with "updates"... john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:49:48 -0700 From: john Subject: vehicle recovery When Mount Saint Helens erupted up here in 1980 there were a few things learned. Probably the most significant was the use of Nylons or PantyHose over the air intake to protect the engine against the very abrasive volcanic ash. The abrasive material that was on the ground also got into wheel bearings and u-joints, wearing them out quickly. Engines that brought in volcanic dust wore out very quickly. THE DISCUSSION has been raised about what to do with a vehicle that may be near the World Trade Center in NYC. Anyone watching the news can see many vehicles sitting on the streets with layers of dust and ash. The following is what I would do to recover my vehicle. IF you have better ideas let me know and I'll update the page. I'm going to place a copy of this in http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech but also have it in the URL below. ============================================================== If your vehicle is covered in dust or ash debris here are some of the steps you might want to take before opening any doors, starting the vehicle or moving it. The objective here is to remove as much of the material without getting it into moving parts, the interior or the engine. You also want to be careful not to scratch the exterior or glass. You want to remove the dust, cement material, volcanic ash or whatever else is on the vehicle. Water or compressed air seem like the most logical choice if they are available. A brush or broom if not. Pay attention to moving parts and get the debris out of those areas the best you can. ======================================================== first things: - - DO NOT START THE ENGINE - - DO NOT MOVE THE VEHICLE AT ALL. - - DO NOT OPEN DOORS OR HOOD A garden hose would be my first choice, compressed air my second, a shop-vac my third and as a last resort a brush or soft broom... A vacuum cleaner would probably not be effective but would be better than using your hands. Whatever tool you us, remove all the dust that you can. If possible hose it down completely. Compressed air would also work, but raising more dust may not be desirable, or healthy. After all the surface dust and ash is removed and the exterior is clean, then carefully open the driver's door, check the seals to make sure crud hasn't fallen in. Clean around the opening and anything that's fallen inside. Pop the hood. I recommend hosing or blowing off the engine off completely before starting it. Pay attention to the backsides of the pulleys for the water pump, alternator, power steering and so on. Open the air cleaner, it should be clean inside. No need to change the filter, it's unlikely that dust got in there. You can change it if it needs it though. Spray underneath on the axles and around the u-joints and wheel bearing seals. Rinse everything off. Let it dry. If it's clean when dry, then you're safe to move it. Listen carefully when turning the engine over... if you hear abrasive action, shut it off and squirt water or air into the idler pulleys, belts and pumps to rinse away the material. I'd also recommend putting a pair of pantyhose or nylons over the air filter opening as an added precaution. That's what was used when Mount Saint Helens erupted. Slowly move the vehicle, listening carefully to any screeching, grinding or abrasive sounds from the wheels... Most likely if you have disc brakes you will hear some... if you lightly apply the brakes and the sounds go away, that's what it is. Don't worry about that right now. The wheel bearings are the concern. Once you're clear of the dust and ashes, take it to a car wash and hose the underside and exterior again. It'll most likely be completely fine if you do all these things. As an added precaution have the oil changed as soon as you can, and have the bearings and axles checked. Having all the fluids changed is even more insurance against future troubles. http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/TERRORIST-ATTACK-NYC/Vehicle-Recovery.txt - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:32:17 -0700 From: john Subject: another test for some reason when I send an email from eudora in windoze 98 to diesel-benz-at-digest.net a message is being sent to a gentleman in South Africa!!! The problem does not occur when I email directly from my Linux server in a korn shell using Pine. What confuses me is my email from my pc still goes through the same server... Microsoft's implementation of TCP/IP is pathetic. They've combined the top four layers of the stack into one layer... but still, it worked before, and the mail transport protocols are in lower layers... I think... oh well... let me know if you get this Stiaan, and please capture the complete header if at all possible... If anyone else that is NOT on the diesel-benz list is getting this please let me know, and include the full header information with the message so I may troubleshoot what is going on. john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX from Snohomish, Washington reminding you not to leave life without Jesus. need a choice of tools? try: http://www.sun.com/staroffice/ ============================================================================= Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonald Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants. Michael Bacarella 3/15/2000 (as seen on http://www.slashdot.com/ ) ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 02:46:40 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: 1984 300D W123 starts Rand responded with: > Yes when I turn the key to the off position, the battery light comes on and > stays on until the engine shuts off. This is noticeable because my engine > doesn't always shutoff right away. Sometimes my engine will be at idle for > a few seconds before shutting down. The shutdown should be almost immediate. If it's only 1-2 seconds, I wouldn't be too concerned. If it's upwards of 5 seconds or more, check your vacuum lines. Do your door locks work ok? On my 240D, there is a 3-4 second delay from the time I lock the driver's door until all locks are down. I say "all locks"... My passenger front door doesn't lock with the rest, but that's a mechanical problem that I'll fix one of these days. If the door locks are fine, check the vacuum hoses near the oil filter housing. Before I went back to doing my own oil changes, one of the quicky oil change places accidently popped one of the vacuum lines loose. The engine wouldn't shut down. You might have a loose connection or a crack in one of the lines. Have fun...it's a minor problem. Jon '81 240D 285,150 mi. "Mathilde" ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #645 *********************************