From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #722 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, March 7 2002 Volume 01 : Number 722 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Noise from 87 300D Re: it wasn't the engineers... Advice, Please re: 1987 300TD Re: Noise from 87 300D Re: Advice, Please re: 1987 300TD Re: it wasn't the engineers... My 1981 300D is for sale. OT: grey/black market cars Re: it wasn't the engineers... Re: OT: grey/black market cars Re: it wasn't the engineers... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:49:35 -0800 From: "Thomas Martin-Tran" Subject: Noise from 87 300D Hello, I've been considering an 87 300D. The car makes sorta a "rummble", for lack of vocabulary to describe it better, when accelerating from a stop - it is sorta an extra sound like it isn't the engine but, rather something else under the hood. Could this be the sound of the turbo charger? Does then engine need a motor mount? (the car doesn't vibrate much esspecially after warm). The car has the following problems I've noted (A/C is cold but, crazy - definately has a mind of it's own). There is a scratch (about 1cm wide by 5cm long) on the front fender, the odometer needs repair, the outside temp gauge doesn't operate, the front dome light doesn't come on when you open the doors (the rear dome light does...) The rear headrests don't seem to come up, the Antenna stays at "half-mast". I felt $3900 would be a fair offer for the car (askiing price is $4900). Any comments on what to think of the noise - offer? Thanks. Tom M - who has found out how out of shape he really is after selling his car and riding a bicycle to work. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:01:10 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: it wasn't the engineers... At 11:48 PM 3/5/02 -0500, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >Thank GM for all this! I just hope I never meet a GM engineer >that created that GOD AWFULL modified 350 engine in a dark >alley! In my opinion we'd all have a nice variety of cars to choose >from with diesel power if it weren't for GM in the late 70's! > >I share your frustration... trust me, it wasn't the engineers... it was the bean counters that forced them to push something into production before it was tested... and then it was the morons at the dealership that really screwed things up. The money grubbing managers of the dealerships who robbed, pillaged and plundered americans with their good-fer-little wrench service... By 1983, only 4 years after they started selling the 5.7L Diesel they had it right. My 1980 Olds Diesel did ok, had trouble around 70,000 miles... so they convinced me to put in the Targetmaster Diesel, basically a 1984 motor, redesigned oil seals, new head gasket/bolt design and a beefed up bottom end, roller lifter cam and voila. It was fantastic. I finally destroyed the car at 230,000 total miles... and if I hadn't "fixed" the transmission it would probably still be going... I put a little fork on the wrong side of a plunger and voila, we did a downshift at 65 mph into first gear and had the valve train rearrange itself... ;) Anyway, it's not the engineers you want to meet, they were actually working on a high powered V8 Diesel with specialized air intakes, one for each cylinder and a 4 speed... a Diesel 442 if you will, I read it would smoke the tires and do some great times... But it got killed off because of the early converted gas Rocket 350s. So, if you want to blame someone, blame MOSTLY the GM service departments and the bean counters. GM did little to help the consumer and only gave americans a bad taste for Diesel. Funny how Ford, VW and Mercedes did fine with them... My '83 Ford Ranger Diesel with that 2.2L Mazda motor is still doing well. I'd almost sworn off on Diesels after the 300SD. I was getting tired of messing with fuel systems and injectors. Not sure why I was having so much trouble with my DieselBenz's... Are they that much more sensitive than my other Diesels??? I've heard that sometimes you can buy an American car with a Diesel up in Canada and bring it back stateside... :) john meister - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:28:01 EST From: WSAMKELLY-at-aol.com Subject: Advice, Please re: 1987 300TD Hi all, I've run across an '87 300TD at a local dealer.... 195k Silver/ maroon leather " recent transmission " Climate control and tach may not work - per dealer Haven't seen the car yet, but I'm interested...what should I be aware of ? Any specific problem areas ? Asking price is 7,995.00 ( Atlanta ) ....is this reasonable ? And what would a " climate control/ tach " fix cost, worst case ? I'd use the car to travel around GA/ TN - high mileage doesn't bother me if it's been maintained, but am I asking for trouble w/ this one ?? Based on the feedback, I 'd like to go see the car, and get a prepurchase done...where's the best place to do that around ATL ? ( I'm in Snellville ) Thanks for your help ! Bill Kelly 91 VW Jetta Ecodiesel 87 300TD ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:48:37 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Noise from 87 300D I better say something, since John reminded us how few are here. I think i count for three of the subscriptions, since I'm on digest from 2 accounts just so i can submit messages. Tom, I can't answer all your questions, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. An 87 300D could be a tremendous car. Old enough to be a marvel of mechanical engineering; new enough to be a W124. I have no experience with that motor, which I think is the 2.5 turbo. I only know the older diesels from a 1980 240D and an 85 300D turbo. but I don't think the rumble is normal. It's definitely not the turbo. Those are almost impossible to hear on MB diesels, although you may hear a whistle from the wastegate every once in a blue moon. Cheap possibility would be an exhaust hangar. Rubber donuts (sometimes regular, somtimes "filled") suspend the exhaust system. They eventually deteriorate and break, resulting in occasional bumping of exhaust parts. Motor mount is probably another good guess. not sure how to help you diagnose that one. Does the crazy A/C blow correct speeds, but wrong temperatures? If it blows colder when you're moving, but you were expecting heat, it could be a monovalve, easily fixed for around 20 bucks. It could also be a problem with air coming past the inside temperature sensor by the front dome light. With the A/C on, hold a tissue near the little vent up there. It should be ever so slightly pulled to the opening. This fix is more time consuming than costly, unless you pay a mechanic $60 an hour. Dead odometer is common. Safest to not reset them while moving. Can be creatively fixed, or Overseas Speedometer in Austin, TX fixes them for around 99 bucks. I consider a good scratch a plus on otherwise good used cars. You don't have to worry about getting your first scratch in it. My 89 300CE has one on the driver rear fender. Not ugly, just enough that I don't feel the need to park way out at the edge of parking lots. But mine isn't one cm wide, just a single thin line. Front dome light - does it come on when you slide the switch? If not, probably bad bulb. If yes, hmmm. The rear headrests have no automatic raise feature. you pull them up their curved travel path pretty briskly, so they "catch" at the top. I sometimes have to make two tries on mine if I don't hit it right. The dash button is just to lower them. Press, hold a half second, then release, and they plop down with authority. It'd be nice sometimes if they had an auto up at the same speed. Easier than reaching behind you to smack somebody. ;-) Antenna: Does the radio look original? If not, it may not have a power antenna signal, so somebody may have just "parked" the antenna. Try the dash switch near the headrest switch. Can you get the antenna up or down? Do you hear any noise from the antenna motor? As to price, you don't mention the mileage on the car or the existence of documented religious oil changes and other maintenance. To get 20 per cent off the asking price, or convince you that it's worth more than 3900, it might be worth it to pay a hundred bucks or so for a good pre purchase inspection. You'll end up with either documented upcoming expenses to use in negotiations, or a comfort that the car is in great shape and may be worth closer to asking price. I don't know what any "official" reference price may be. Good luck, and if you get it, tell John how great it is. Maybe we can tempt him with a turbodiesel W124. ;-) Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 95 C280 89 300CE > Hello, > I've been considering an 87 300D. The car makes sorta a "rummble", for > lack of vocabulary to describe it better, when accelerating from a stop - it > is sorta an extra sound like it isn't the engine but, rather something else > under the hood. Could this be the sound of the turbo charger? Does then > engine need a motor mount? (the car doesn't vibrate much esspecially after > warm). The car has the following problems I've noted (A/C is cold but, > crazy - definately has a mind of it's own). There is a scratch (about 1cm > wide by 5cm long) on the front fender, the odometer needs repair, the > outside temp gauge doesn't operate, the front dome light doesn't come on > when you open the doors (the rear dome light does...) The rear headrests > don't seem to come up, the Antenna stays at "half-mast". I felt $3900 would > be a fair offer for the car (askiing price is $4900). Any comments on what > to think of the noise - offer? > Thanks. > Tom M - who has found out how out of shape he really is after selling his > car and riding a bicycle to work. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:55:30 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Advice, Please re: 1987 300TD Bill, Dead tach could easily be related to "recent transmission". Try to get more info on who did the tranny, and what they put in (new, reman, used). Worst case, who really _needs_ a tach on an automatic transmission? Climate control - known MB weak point. Worst case, replace the compressor, some hoses, and a few odds and ends parts. might as well switch to R134 at that point if it was an R12 system. Ballpark budget of an even grand, more or less. Would mostly depend on how many (and which) hoses need replacing. They're proud of those A/C hoses. Maintenance is definitely key on one of these, especially oil, rear suspension (hydropneumatic), and suspension rubber. No suggestions for local inspector, but definitely get one. If it passes, this would sure be a useful vehicle. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 95 C280 89 300CE > Hi all, > > I've run across an '87 300TD at a local dealer.... > > 195k > Silver/ maroon leather > " recent transmission " > Climate control and tach may not work - per dealer > > Haven't seen the car yet, but I'm interested...what should I be aware of ? > Any specific problem areas ? Asking price is 7,995.00 ( Atlanta ) ....is this > reasonable ? And what would a " climate control/ tach " fix cost, worst > case ? I'd use the car to travel around GA/ TN - high mileage doesn't bother > me if it's been maintained, but am I asking for trouble w/ this one ?? > > Based on the feedback, I 'd like to go see the car, and get a prepurchase > done...where's the best place to do that around ATL ? ( I'm in Snellville ) > > Thanks for your help ! > > Bill Kelly > 91 VW Jetta Ecodiesel > 87 300TD ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:57:36 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: it wasn't the engineers... > I've heard that sometimes you can buy an American car with > a Diesel up in Canada and bring it back stateside... :) > > john meister > I've just been wondering about that. Either Canada or Mexico, which would be easier for me here in Texas. hmmm. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:00:37 -0800 From: "chris" Subject: My 1981 300D is for sale. I redid everything and it is almost perfect. A lady said she wanted it so I cleaned it all up and covered it in the garage. 6 months later she still doesn't have the money. She talked me down to $5000 somehow. I have way more than that in it. The engine was $4700 and $2000 for the paint. I guess I will sell it for the $5k Before I put it in the Auto Trader I thought I would give you guys a shot at it. I'm in San Diego... Little pictures at http://209.75.46.68/chris Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:17:53 -0800 From: Robert Crawford Subject: OT: grey/black market cars Re: it wasn't the engineers... There was a guy on my VW thing list that took a vin plate and license plates to Mexico and "restored" his VW Thing. A couple of years later he was in a accident and the insurance company refused to cover his damages. They were willing to take care of the other guys car but not his. So, it you go this route (suitcase restoration) only do it with a car you are willing to walk away from. The same thing applies to my Vanagon TD. I have been told by my insurance agent that because it was never sold in the US that if it is ever rearended (a very real possibility in any vanagon) that they will probably not pay for repairs but will junk it instead. Needless to say, I only carry Pl/Pd on it. On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 07:57 AM, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >> I've heard that sometimes you can buy an American car with >> a Diesel up in Canada and bring it back stateside... :) >> >> john meister >> > > I've just been wondering about that. Either Canada or Mexico, which > would be > easier for me here in Texas. hmmm. > > Alec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:51:16 -0800 From: Lee or RK Rossi Subject: Re: OT: grey/black market cars Re: it wasn't the engineers... I have imported several diesel benz and other vehicles from Canada in the past few years all legitimately and above board. I simply don't buy ANYTHING that is newer than 25 years old. Vehicles that are 25 years old or older are exempt from the restrictions that newer cars are subject to. This includes Speedometer change over from metric. safety and pollution certification etc. I have brought in two newer ones and have had MUCH grief with the paperwork involved. Even though most all Benz cars delivered in North America reportedly meet the same safety and pollution requirements you have to obtain a letter of certification from the manufacturer to prove this to Customs before they will give you the papers allowing you to register the car in your state. State requirements do vary also. If you are looking for older vehicles like a "Thing" it should not be a problem importing them honestly. While we are on the subject I have a 1975 240D (From Canada) has both speedometers. Everything works except Transmission (Rebuilt by trans. shop twice and still blows the bushing out), body poor due to rust. Has good engine and AC unit exhaust system etc. Asking $500 as a parts vehicle. Would prefer to sell whole at this time may part it out if not sold in a month or so.This vehicle has CURRENT Washington title and registration. Also have a 1975 L206D Mercedes Diesel van. Has the 240D engine with a heavy duty 5? speed manual tranny. I bought this from a person in Vancouver last year. The vehicle was imported and licensed in Canada and has cleared US customs. It was "running when parked" year before last acording to the previous owner. He also stated that the entire drive train was done through and the engine redone at that time. It actually passed "air care "inspection. He had it stored in a locked parking area while he was completing the restoration. Some of the neighborhood kids climbed the fence and vandalized it. It now needs all new window glass and upholstery. I purchased it to restore to replace my Grumman stepvan. I have way too many projects going to complete this so am selling it to anyone interested in a neat little van and has the time to put into it. Anyone that has an L206D that needs parts(NO GLASS). Will again offer it to the Benz list for a week before listing it on Ebay. Asking $750.00 (Maybe I should rip out the engine and tranny and put it in the Grumman) Hoping to find someone interested in it for restoration. Email me with any questions. Lee Robert Crawford wrote: > > There was a guy on my VW thing list that took a vin plate and license > plates to Mexico and "restored" his VW Thing. A couple of years later > he was in a accident and the insurance company refused to cover his > damages. They were willing to take care of the other guys car but not > his. So, it you go this route (suitcase restoration) only do it with a > car you are willing to walk away from. > The same thing applies to my Vanagon TD. I have been told by my > insurance agent that because it was never sold in the US that if it is > ever rearended (a very real possibility in any vanagon) that they will > probably not pay for repairs but will junk it instead. Needless to say, > I only carry Pl/Pd on it. > > On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 07:57 AM, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > > >> I've heard that sometimes you can buy an American car with > >> a Diesel up in Canada and bring it back stateside... :) > >> > >> john meister > >> > > > > I've just been wondering about that. Either Canada or Mexico, which > > would be > > easier for me here in Texas. hmmm. > > > > Alec ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #722 *********************************