From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #731 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Sunday, March 24 2002 Volume 01 : Number 731 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #730 list member passed away... Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #730 Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #730 Howdy! Success! Re: Howdy! east coast adventure coming up Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:10:19 -0800 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #730 Greetings Mike, Since the Cam and crankshaft marks line up I would not suspect the chain. Is there a reason why the Injection pump (IP) timing is being adjusted? Was a new IP installed or is it running poorly? I am not familiar with this engine, but on the 190d 601 engine i turn the crank until I can see the locking tip line up with the locking pin hole and take a reading. If I am off beyond the point of adjustment I insert the locking pin loosen the timing chain tensioner and remove the IP. I then dial in the correct reading and install the pump. It is a lot of work, I have made the process easier by purchasing the factory timing jig. I still have to remove that pump if it cannot be dialed in. This is reflector diagnostics so take it for what it cost you. ;) I would be interested to know how it is done on your engine though. G'day! Derick Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08:34 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: HELP: Injector pump timing Hi. I'm trying to set my injector pump timing. The start of delivery is supposed to be 24 degrees +/- 1 BTDC. However, I've advanced the timing as far as it will go and the best I can get is 15 degrees BTDC. I checked my timing marks, and they are synched perfectly. Is this a timing chain problem? Or something else? Thanks! Mike Aimino 1983 300TD Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector Mercedes Benz Club Of America Northwest: 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:56:52 -0800 From: john meister Subject: list member passed away... I just received an email that Mark Fountain passed away on March 7. Please be sure to remove his email: fountain-at-spiritone.com from your address book. I'll see if I can find out what happened... will let you know. :( john - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:00:15 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #730 Hi Derick. Thank you for the information. The engine was running rough, was getting a bit hot (in 20-30 degree F weather), and was using too much fuel (20-22 mpg). I adjusted the valves to no avail. I decided to check the pump timing. On my engine, I use the "bubble" method publihsed on one of the other lists. Basically, I take the #1 injector line off, sop all the fuel from the port on the pump, turn the engine over by hand, and stop when fuel begins to well up in the port. That should be 24 degrees BTDC. To advance the timing, I loosen the bolts holding the pump to the engine block and rotate the top of the pump toward the engine; retard is the reverse. I advanced the timing as far as it would go and couldn't get it past 15 degrees BTDC. It was at approx. 1 degree BTDC when I started. I removed the IP last night with the engine still at TDC. The timing mark on the pump was perfectly aligned. All the timing marks are perfectly aligned at TDC, so I don't suspect the chain any longer. However, I'm at a loss to explain what is happening. Kind Regards, Mike Aimino 1983 300TD On 22 Mar 02, at 20:10, Derickam AA wrote: > Greetings Mike, > > > Since the Cam and crankshaft marks line up I would not suspect the chain. Is > there a reason why the Injection pump (IP) timing is being adjusted? Was a > new IP installed or is it running poorly? > I am not familiar with this engine, but on the 190d 601 engine i turn the > crank until I can see the locking tip line up with the locking pin hole and > take a reading. > > If I am off beyond the point of adjustment I insert the locking pin loosen > the timing chain tensioner and remove the IP. > > I then dial in the correct reading and install the pump. > > It is a lot of work, I have made the process easier by purchasing the > factory timing jig. I still have to remove that pump if it cannot be dialed > in. > > This is reflector diagnostics so take it for what it cost you. ;) > > I would be interested to know how it is done on your engine though. > > G'day! > > Derick > > > Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08:34 -0500 > From: "Michael Aimino" > Subject: HELP: Injector pump timing > > Hi. I'm trying to set my injector pump timing. The start of delivery > is supposed to be 24 degrees +/- 1 BTDC. However, I've advanced the > timing as far as it will go and the best I can get is 15 degrees BTDC. > > I checked my timing marks, and they are synched perfectly. Is this a > timing chain problem? Or something else? Thanks! > > Mike Aimino > 1983 300TD > > > > Derick Amburgey > Automated Control Specialist > Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System > Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX > List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector > Mercedes Benz Club Of America Northwest: > 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" > 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:21:30 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: diesel-benz-digest V1 #730 On 23 Mar 02, at 12:35, Dan J. wrote: > Before everyone assumes I'm being a jerk, let's keep in mind that I don't > know if everyone knows this kind of stuff, and I sure as hell don't know > everything. Thank you for your help. If anyone thinks you're being a jerk, they'll have to answer to me. > >The engine was running rough, was getting a bit hot (in 20-30 degree > >F weather), and was using too much fuel (20-22 mpg). I adjusted the > >valves to no avail. I decided to check the pump timing. > > Before you did this, did you check into the other explanations for the > symptoms you describe? > Running rough: not getting enough fuel? Bad fuel? > Getting hot: Blocked radiator or in need of flushing? Bad fuel? > Bad fuel mileage: Tune up time? (valve adjustment especially) Bad fuel? > (See the bad fuel pattern?) > By the way, I get about 20-22 MPG, and the motor runs fine. It's the high > mileage that and valve adjustments that ruin your fuel mileage I change filters on a strict schedule. I buy my fuel from several reputable sources and this behavior has been going on for several months, so I think I can eliminate bad fuel as a problem. Radiator was flushed last spring. It may need it again. Valves adjusted ~3000 miles ago. > >On my engine, I use the "bubble" method publihsed on one of the other > >lists. Basically, I take the #1 injector line off, sop all the fuel > >from the port on the pump, turn the engine over by hand, and stop > >when fuel begins to well up in the port. That should be 24 degrees > >BTDC. > > Are you sure this is the right timing setting? Yep. That's what it says on MB CD-ROM and the Haynes manual. So here's how I spent my day today. I checked the timing chain for stretch - none. The timing marks line up perfectly. I pulled the IP, aligned the timing marks, set the flywheel to 24 degrees BTDC, and installed the IP. I tried the drip method of timing this time. Got it set to one drip per second (or as close to that as possible), and plumbed all the vacuum lines, injector lines, etc. Got everything buttoned down and tried to start 'er up. No go. I pulled the #1 injector line and reverified the timing using the bubble method. It's at 18 degrees BTDC. I'm very close to packing this car full of cans of gas and having an early Fourth of July... Mike Aimino 1983 300TD (but maybe not for long...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:32:58 -0800 From: "Dan J." Subject: Howdy! I know I prolly didn't have to put in the "Before any one thinks I'm bein' a jerk" line, but I am in a weird mood today. Might be the altitude, I'm in Denver today, and the air is thin up here! It might be effecting my synapses (whatever those are!) I'll be delivering in Loveland, CO, in the morning, and the best part about that is eating breakfast at the Waffle House in Longmont, at 4AM. Yes, I do have a simple life on the road (I think?) Diesel Dan http://dieseldan.net AIM screen name: dieseldanotr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:35:12 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Success! No, I didn't have the fireworks. I got the timing on the IP to exactly 24 BTDC (bubble method). After much coaxing, bleeding the lines, etc, she coughed to life. Smoked like a pack of Pall-Malls. Took her for a test drive and she's -- different. Idles at 1000 rpm now; used to idle at 750 (my 300SD and 300D idle at ~750). Better adjust that. Accelerates quicker, idles much smoother. And this is strange - she shifts differently, seems to rev higher before shifting. I wouldn't expect the IP timing to have any effect on that at all, and I really don't know how it could. But, keep in mind I've been breathing diesel vapor for the better part of the day, so that might explain a lot. She's still getting a bit warm. She sits at 80, then jumps very quickly to almost 100, then gradually cools back to 80 again. Any ideas? Mike Aimino 1983 300TD (still) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:25 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Howdy! Diesel Dan popped in and announced: > I know I prolly didn't have to put in the "Before any one thinks I'm > bein' a jerk" line, but I am in a weird mood today. Might be the > altitude, I'm in Denver today, and the air is thin up here! It might be > effecting my synapses (whatever those are!) Too much Star Trek, methinks.. You're not wearing any weird "Spock" ears or taping up pictures of Counselor Troi around the cab of your tractor, are you??? > I'll be delivering in Loveland, CO, in the morning, and the best part > about that is eating breakfast at the Waffle House in Longmont, at 4AM. [burp] > Yes, I do have a simple life on the road (I think?) And, your're getting closer to Texas. It may be time for Alec & I to lock our doors... ;-) Jon '84 300SD 133,200 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:17:44 -0800 From: john meister Subject: east coast adventure coming up I fly out of Seattle Friday night (3/29). Arrive in Newark, NJ Sat am and head west to Mt. Pocono something or another. Will be teaching a Solaris class there for two weeks. Will try to stay connected via email. Any one on the list there? Have camera, will travel... ;) I may try to visit an old friend in Kittinaning, it's about a 6 hr drive west of where I'll be... something to do on the weekend in between I guess. john - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #731 *********************************