From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #861 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 16 2003 Volume 01 : Number 861 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... Re: no problem cleaning a Diesel engine Re: no problem Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... RE: cleaning a Diesel engine Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... diesel purge kit question Re: diesel purge kit question exterior question Re: diesel purge kit question Re: diesel purge kit question Re: diesel purge kit question FWD: Power cell diesels Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:00:25 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... At 06:45 AM 1/15/2003 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >From: "Black, Waylon" >Subject: RE: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... > >Vipers are great up North - Heat works great. Too bad you can't turn the >heat off - it comes from the engine compartment - poor insulation. Later >models were not as bad. All that torque would put you in the ditch if it's >slick. The pedal offset is a pain, too - set to the left. Fun car but not >for a daily. ;) the road heading into work is a twisty, windy, goes down into a gully and back out road... speed limit (?) is 35 mph... but gravity forces you to at least 45 mph unless you work the brakes hard... I'm usually through it at 50 to 70mph... frost, sand or wet may put you in the guard rail... after a recent frost and sanding some boeing guy (?) put a viper into the ditch on the last curve heading up hill... (the least likely one for a crash), looks like he got happy with the right foot and lost it. My Diesel Benz's would always behave perfectly well on that turn... no torque at 70mph to spin 'em out. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:01:49 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: no problem At 06:45 AM 1/15/2003 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >Subject: Re: I think I'm cured... >John, > JUST BUY THE DAMN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!! >;) >Jim/ no problem jim, just send me the money and I'll go get it this afternoon. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:04:24 -0800 From: john Subject: cleaning a Diesel engine Be careful NOT to spray water on the fuel injectors if they're warm, the thermal change can damage them! You might want to let things cool down a bit before washing the engine. I use Simple Green and a regular garden hose in the driveway, works pretty well and is biodegradeable... Castrol makes a bio-d engine cleaner as well. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:19:19 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: no problem Sell one of those rickety old Jeeps and you'll have cash left over! ;) Jim/ > At 06:45 AM 1/15/2003 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: > >Subject: Re: I think I'm cured... > >John, > > JUST BUY THE DAMN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!! > >;) > >Jim/ > > no problem jim, > just send me the money and I'll go get it this afternoon. ;) > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:21:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... john wrote: > > >Vipers are great up North - Heat works great. Too bad you can't turn the > >heat off - it comes from the engine compartment - poor insulation. Later > >models were not as bad. All that torque would put you in the ditch if it's > >slick. The pedal offset is a pain, too - set to the left. Fun car but not > >for a daily. ;) > > > the road heading into work is a twisty, windy, goes down into a > gully and back out road... speed limit (?) is 35 mph... but > gravity forces you to at least 45 mph unless you work the brakes > hard... I'm usually through it at 50 to 70mph... frost, sand or > wet may put you in the guard rail... after a recent frost and > sanding some boeing guy (?) put a viper into the ditch on the > last curve heading up hill... (the least likely one for a crash), > looks like he got happy with the right foot and lost it. *** I guess you could say he got Bit by the Viper ( sorry about that ) :). - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:11:13 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: cleaning a Diesel engine At 10:33 AM 1/15/2003 -0600, Potter, Tom E wrote: >This is good advice--at least from my past experience. I worked on a lot >of large diesels: Sulzer, F-M, Alco. They all had warnings about spraying >cold water on hot injectors. The clearances in some injectors are in the >0.0000 range. yeah... they don't like it when you shrink 'em, especially when they're running. :) Same with the pump itself, tight tolerances. I've had several Diesel injection pump specialists tell me about it... :) john >Thomas E. Potter >Telephone: (713) 215-2877 >Fax: (713) 215-2551 >Mobile: (832) 794-0536 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:04 AM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: cleaning a Diesel engine > > >Be careful NOT to spray water on the fuel injectors if they're >warm, the thermal change can damage them! You might want to let >things cool down a bit before washing the engine. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:26:29 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... At 08:21 AM 1/15/2003 -0800, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >john wrote: >*** I guess you could say he got Bit by the Viper ( sorry about that ) :). > - Jerry Kaidor groan... went back east a few years ago, had dinner with my cousin who is a doctor... we were talking about vehicles, I asked him what he had and he said a viper. I asked what else did he have, and he said what else is there? He still paid for dinner despite the fact I wasn't impressed. ;) I can't find the picture of the crashed viper... I didn't take it so if I saved it must be on my work computer somewhere... not going to look for it... thinking about it I wouldn't mind putting that V10 into a Jeep though... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:17:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... john wrote: > thinking about it I wouldn't mind putting that V10 into a Jeep though... > *** How about a motorcycle? See http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030106/tc_nm/autos_show_dodge_dc_1 - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:51:03 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Re[3]: I think I'm cured... wasn't sure if I shared this before or not... did with the jeep lists... :) john At 11:17 AM 1/15/2003 -0800, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >john wrote: > > thinking about it I wouldn't mind putting that V10 into a Jeep though... > > >*** How about a motorcycle? > >See > >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030106/tc_nm/autos_show_dodge_dc_1 > > - Jerry - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:59:05 -0600 From: Subject: diesel purge kit question Has anyone used the diesel purge kit by LLBRO MOLY sold on ebay and elsewhere that promises to clean injectors and improve performance? I was wondering if my $20 was better spent on new injectors. I'm almost at 250,000 miles, does Mercedes still provide those grill badges for high mile awards? Joe Oliver 1985 300CD 249,000 mi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:30:19 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: diesel purge kit question > Has anyone used the diesel purge kit by LLBRO MOLY sold on ebay and elsewhere > that promises to clean injectors and improve performance? I was wondering if > my $20 was better spent on new injectors. > > I'm almost at 250,000 miles, does Mercedes still provide those grill badges > for high mile awards? > > Joe Oliver > 1985 300CD > 249,000 mi > Diesel Purge is good stuff. The Performance Products catalog describes how to run it through the injectors undiluted, which is the most effective way to use it. i don't know if the ebay kits are specifically bundled with stuff to do it that way. Diesel Purge is one of the few additives/treatments that I think is worth a darn, Techron and Water Wetter being a couple other members of the short list. Mercedes still provides the badges for 250,000, 500,000, and 1 million kilometers. Your local MB dealer should be able to help you get them free, even if you do not have an outstanding relationship with the dealer. ;-) Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 152K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: Anaeis N Subject: exterior question Hey, all. I finally received the photos of the '75 300D I'd been lusting after, sight unseen. It looks good, except for one thing. I'm not sure of the name, but it's those metal lines that runs along the middle of the car horizontally and on its edges. It looks like it doesn't line up exactly evenly in the spots where the doors divide, where the lower body of the car meets the window ledges, and along the windshield. Is this normal? Or easily repairable? Another thing with it is that it appears somewhat thinner on a particular stretch than the rest of the metal. Also, does anyone know the price range for having a package/parcel shelf replaced? I couldn't find it on the usual parts sites. Thanks, Rebecca Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 02:11:47 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: diesel purge kit question Joe asked: >Has anyone used the diesel purge kit by LLBRO MOLY sold on ebay and elsewhere >that promises to clean injectors and improve performance? > As far as I'm concerned, Diesel Purge is the best injector cleaner you can use. Do it by the book and it is reputed to work miracles. I have not done it that way since both of the MB diesels I have owned were running ok. I have used in on a few fuel filter changes by filling the spin on fuel filter with Diesel Purge. You don't get the full benefit. but it still cleans the injectors and greatly reduces the time it takes to prime the system after a filter change. Ask Big Jim, "Rusty", Hoffman about how to NOT do this. He's become our resident expert.... ;-) I have not tried Techron. I know they make one especially for diesels but it's hard to find. Is the gas version acceptable for out beasts?? Jon '84 300SD 150,700 mi. "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 05:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: diesel purge kit question Jon Filina wrote: > > Joe asked: > > >Has anyone used the diesel purge kit by LLBRO MOLY sold on ebay and elsewhere > >that promises to clean injectors and improve performance? > > > > As far as I'm concerned, Diesel Purge is the best injector cleaner you > can use. Do it by the book and it is reputed to work miracles. *** Is it OK for Trap Oxidizer equipped vehicles? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:19:57 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: diesel purge kit question OK... Since I'm the resident expert now, DON'T do what I did and put the fuel filter back in EMPTY! ;) The worst part is that I have a bottle of Diesel Purge on my shelf and didn't think to use it in that way. I intend to follow the directions and run it through to get the full benefit. AFTER I get the floorboards fixed! ;) Joe... Don't pay $20 for it... it's only $10 from Performance Products. Their web site seems to be down right now. But I seem to recall it's still $10 or $10.99 for the kit. Check them out. Jim/ '83 240D > Joe asked: > > >Has anyone used the diesel purge kit by LLBRO MOLY sold on ebay and elsewhere > >that promises to clean injectors and improve performance? > > > > As far as I'm concerned, Diesel Purge is the best injector cleaner you > can use. Do it by the book and it is reputed to work miracles. I have > not done it that way since both of the MB diesels I have owned were > running ok. I have used in on a few fuel filter changes by filling the > spin on fuel filter with Diesel Purge. You don't get the full benefit. > but it still cleans the injectors and greatly reduces the time it takes > to prime the system after a filter change. > > Ask Big Jim, "Rusty", Hoffman about how to NOT do this. He's become our > resident expert.... ;-) > > I have not tried Techron. I know they make one especially for diesels > but it's hard to find. Is the gas version acceptable for out beasts?? > > Jon > '84 300SD 150,700 mi. "Bruno" > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:03:52 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: FWD: Power cell diesels Hi Folks! A recent discussion of diesel tractors on an antique tractor list that I'm no evolved into discussion of Mercedes diesel engines. Below is a post from one of our members. He talks about a "removable pre-chamber". I've never heard anyone on this list talk about this. Part of this pre-chamber is a "ball pin". My impression is that this ball pin has a lot to do with performance of the engine. I'd like to investigate the condition of the components in this pre-chamber on my 240D. Is this hard to do? When looking at the engine I have never noticed an obvious "assembly" that looks seperate from the head. How can I identify this pre-chamber? Learning new stuff all the time ;) Jim/ '83 240D - --------------------------- Forwarded Message ----------------------- Gil, I'll add confusion to this discussion. The diesel tractors I have owned have been mostly trouble free, so my diesel experience has been with Mercedes diesels...an odd critter. I've owned and worked on a lot of them, 6 of mine were diesels, and I could afford them only because they needed repair when I got them. They all had a removeable pre-chamber with a metered orfice into the main combustion chamber. This pre-chamber contained the injector, a glow plug, and a ball pin. The ball pin was heated by the glow plug and the injector sprayed directly on it. The initial combustion blasted the mix through the metered orfice into the main chamber for final combustion. The engine could not run unless the ball pin was first heated by the glow plug...at any temperature. Interestingly, the engines would not run as true diesels unless the THROTTLE PLATE is opened enough to allow high compression. (Mercedes refers to it as a venturi control unit) At idle, the compression ratio may be no higher than a gasoline engine. I think it is known as the Riccardo cycle. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #861 *********************************