From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #873 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, February 3 2003 Volume 01 : Number 873 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: the never-ending story... ;) need help deciding on the next car. RE: the never-ending story... ;) RE: need help deciding on the next car. 85 300CD...new owner RE: the never-ending story... ;) Re: 85 300CD...new owner RE: 85 300CD...new owner RE: 85 300CD...new owner RE: the never-ending story... ;) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:55:58 -0800 From: john Subject: the never-ending story... ;) With the prospect of a longer commute and lower salary I've begun the process of looking into another Diesel Benz... waiting to hear from the bay area on the '84 300CD if it can be made to make the trek to Medford then Seattle... if it can it seems like a win-win for both of us... I stopped and looked at an '85 190D 2.2L tonight... perfect color, straight, clean, all seems to function ok, 215k on the odo, guages jumped around a bit... asking price is $2950, the guy is semi-retired and has a lot around here, says he's selling it for an estate/friend. It was a university prof's who died about a year ago... car seems to drive out nice but I fear the baby Benz's. Talked to the list mom (Derick) since he has two of 'em and he seems to think that the $2500 the guy will take is ok, not a screamin' deal, but ok. (BTW, didn't mention it but Derick and I met up at SeaTac last week. :) pix of the 190D at: http://wagoneers.com/tmp/190D/ it's that light cream color, everything seems to work... whaddya think? I think I'm going to wait to see if the trade for the 300CD works out... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:16:41 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: need help deciding on the next car. Ho all! wanted to get your's all opinions. Just was in a car wreck that totaled out my car (got rear ended by a cell phone talker here in seattle) and am looking at the replacment. Right now the options are a 85-90ish 190 benz, a an 85-90ish 300e benz if I can find the right deal, a 99-2000 s40 volvo, or a 98-2000 newer subaru forester type car. Wanting to spend about 7-10k and am seeing examples of all these cars with about 110k-150k miles on em in this price range. I only know about the 300es. Has anyone experienced anything about the other cars, any "gotchas" I should be lookingout for. I'm starting to hear more negitive then good about the s40's but its mostly rumor and shop talk. I've yet to actualy talk to anyone that has owned one. Thanx for the info. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:32:53 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: the never-ending story... ;) > I stopped and looked at an '85 190D 2.2L tonight... perfect color, > straight, clean, all seems to function ok, 215k on the odo, guages > jumped around a bit... asking price is $2950, the guy is semi-retired > and has a lot around here, says he's selling it for an estate/friend. > It was a university prof's who died about a year ago... car seems > to drive out nice but I fear the baby Benz's. Talked to the list > mom (Derick) since he has two of 'em and he seems to think that the > $2500 the guy will take is ok, not a screamin' deal, but ok. > > whaddya think? > > I think I'm going to wait to see if the trade for the 300CD works > out... > > john The W201 Baby Benzes got a bad reputation, although I'm now not so sure they deserved it. They heralded the introduction of the multilink rear suspension that I believe is still in use today. It was a definite step up from that used in the W123 and W126 cars and provided more predictable performance over a much wider variety of road surfaces and performance conditions, so a 190 in decent shape should be rather enjoyable to drive. They also introduced the look that carried over to the W124 series. Some of the parts on my 89 W124 300CE have a part number starting with 201, including the pop up sunroof wind deflector and the big single windshield wiper. They are small cars, comparable in interior space to the old VW Jettas and BMW 3 series of the time. Try to get more info on rear seat accomodations. I seem to remember some comments from you about some family members finding some cars to be a snug fit. The 2.2 liter non turbo 4 cylinder diesel was only sold in the US for a brief time. In just one or two model years it was replaced with the 2.5, then the 2.5 turbo. Even with the car's lighter weight than a W123 or W126, I would expect performance of the 2.2 to be comparable to a non turbo 300D W123, if not a 240D. Might actually help if you encounter snow, but it's still a good Benz diesel motor, so once you get up to speed, you can cruise along forever. The paint on that one looks very nice for an 85. If it has not been resprayed, that speaks well to the care it got during its life. Also, the older US headlights on that one will allow you to get more of those drop in H4 "motorcycle" replacement units. I would expect similar age related needs to a W124 300E, especially suspension rubber, air conditioning, and climate control. But none of the oil appetite common to the M103 straight six gasser. My biggest concerns for its acceptance by your family would be interior size and acceleration. Good luck either way. It definitely appears that you are coming back to the fold and will soon own a diesel Benz again. That makes us all very happy. ;-) Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 152K ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:39:42 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: need help deciding on the next car. In addition to my earlier comments about the 190s, I have a coworker with a 2000 or 2001 S40 that he's had for about a year. He enjoys it, although he's definitely not a car nut like us. It seems to me to be a nice enough car, although it also strikes me as very much like a 190 with less mass and front wheel drive. But we all know I'm a non-recovering Benzaholic, so my opinion may be biased. ;-) Of your choices, I'd go with a W124 300E. Maybe even a 300CE coupe like mine. It adds that little je ne sais quoi to the otherwise somewhat boring exterior style of the 300E sedan. Now if you can find a good 190E 2.6 with a 5-speed manual, that complicates the decision. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: Harry Hargrave Subject: 85 300CD...new owner Hello all, My brother just bought a 85 300CD (turbo)...almost 300K miles.The car is in decent shape cosmetically,but is going to need some mechanical attention. What is the best manual available for this car?(haven't seen a Bentley listed). The transmission(auto) works,but is playing up.What is available in the way of a service manual and rebuild kit for this unit? Is there a general listing of parts sources for this car?(example: BMA has been very good for BMW...one of several good sources). Many thanks in advance! ===== Dennis Hargrave, Frederick,Colorado ,USA 92 BMW 535i 76 Chevrolet 3/4 ton pickup 80 Motoguzzi CX100 Lemans (partial restoration) 65 BSA Thunderbolt Rocket (Restored) 47 Indian Chief (good running original) VME member #00001506 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 13:30:00 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: the never-ending story... ;) thanx for the input... waiting to hear back from my friends in the bay area about the 300CD. If the swap doesn't work I may get serious about the 190D, it is in immaculate condition and seemed to run fine. Performance off the line was quite brisk, on the freeway... well, that's another story. But off the line is good, help me find those holes on I-5 and 405 to keep moving. family doesn't care, the kids are grown, one has already moved out, the other is never around, both have their own wheels... ;) this will mainly be a commuter vehicle for me. seemed to fit me ok, but I think the 300CD is still my first choice just for parts availability and ease of repair, and a bit "more class". ;) john At 01:32 PM 2/2/2003 -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: > > I stopped and looked at an '85 190D 2.2L tonight... perfect color, > > straight, clean, all seems to function ok, 215k on the odo, guages > > jumped around a bit... asking price is $2950, the guy is semi-retired > > and has a lot around here, says he's selling it for an estate/friend. > > It was a university prof's who died about a year ago... car seems > > to drive out nice but I fear the baby Benz's. Talked to the list > > mom (Derick) since he has two of 'em and he seems to think that the > > $2500 the guy will take is ok, not a screamin' deal, but ok. > > > > whaddya think? > > > > I think I'm going to wait to see if the trade for the 300CD works > > out... > > > > john > >The W201 Baby Benzes got a bad reputation, although I'm now not so sure they >deserved it. > >They heralded the introduction of the multilink rear suspension that I >believe is still in use today. It was a definite step up from that used in >the W123 and W126 cars and provided more predictable performance over a much >wider variety of road surfaces and performance conditions, so a 190 in >decent shape should be rather enjoyable to drive. They also introduced the >look that carried over to the W124 series. Some of the parts on my 89 W124 >300CE have a part number starting with 201, including the pop up sunroof >wind deflector and the big single windshield wiper. > >They are small cars, comparable in interior space to the old VW Jettas and >BMW 3 series of the time. Try to get more info on rear seat accomodations. I >seem to remember some comments from you about some family members finding >some cars to be a snug fit. > >The 2.2 liter non turbo 4 cylinder diesel was only sold in the US for a >brief time. In just one or two model years it was replaced with the 2.5, >then the 2.5 turbo. Even with the car's lighter weight than a W123 or W126, >I would expect performance of the 2.2 to be comparable to a non turbo 300D >W123, if not a 240D. Might actually help if you encounter snow, but it's >still a good Benz diesel motor, so once you get up to speed, you can cruise >along forever. > >The paint on that one looks very nice for an 85. If it has not been >resprayed, that speaks well to the care it got during its life. Also, the >older US headlights on that one will allow you to get more of those drop in >H4 "motorcycle" replacement units. > >I would expect similar age related needs to a W124 300E, especially >suspension rubber, air conditioning, and climate control. But none of the >oil appetite common to the M103 straight six gasser. > >My biggest concerns for its acceptance by your family would be interior size >and acceleration. > >Good luck either way. It definitely appears that you are coming back to the >fold and will soon own a diesel Benz again. That makes us all very happy. >;-) > >Alec Cordova >Taylor, Texas >89 300CE, 152K - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 13:33:54 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 85 300CD...new owner get the factory manuals from the dealership, or through performance products... or through the guy on the list whose name escapes me... he's down in atlanta... argghhh... shoot, I'll have to look at my website for his name, bought parts from him before, great source... :) transmission could just be vacuum related... john At 01:24 PM 2/2/2003 -0800, Harry Hargrave wrote: >Hello all, > My brother just bought a 85 300CD (turbo)...almost 300K miles.The car is >in decent shape cosmetically,but is going to need some mechanical attention. > > What is the best manual available for this car?(haven't seen a Bentley > listed). > > The transmission(auto) works,but is playing up.What is available in the > way of a service manual and rebuild kit for this unit? > > Is there a general listing of parts sources for this car?(example: BMA > has been very good for BMW...one of several good sources). > >Many thanks in advance! > >===== >Dennis Hargrave, Frederick,Colorado ,USA > 92 BMW 535i > 76 Chevrolet 3/4 ton pickup > 80 Motoguzzi CX100 Lemans (partial restoration) > 65 BSA Thunderbolt Rocket (Restored) > 47 Indian Chief (good running original) > VME member #00001506 >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:21:44 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: 85 300CD...new owner > get the factory manuals from the dealership, or through > performance products... or through the guy on the list whose > name escapes me... he's down in atlanta... argghhh... shoot, > I'll have to look at my website for his name, bought parts from > him before, great source... :) > > transmission could just be vacuum related... > > john > It's Rusty Cullens. www.buymbparts.com or 800-741-5252. I have also purchased lots of stuff from him over the years, and have always been very happy with price, service, and quality. Rusty may also be able to get you the factory manuals, which are currently only available on CD, run a little over a hundred bucks, and include chassis, engine, electrical, maintenance, and climate control for my newer 89 300CE. For the 85 300CD, coverage should be similar and may include the transmission docs, too. You can also check eBay for the older printed manuals, and someone occasionally sells a copy of the factory CD for much less. Let your conscience be your guide, as they say. I once had a Haynes for either my 85 300D. It wasn't all that bad, but consensus is that all third party books, at least for older Benzes, contain too many inaccuracies. Factory manuals also include torque specs for just about all fasteners, although no one is fond of the way the factory CD is organized. And I second John's suggestion that the tranny problems may simply be vacuum related. The vacuum system is a primary player on these cars in so many ways. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 152K ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:43:08 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: 85 300CD...new owner Harry, 300CDs are nice cars. Call Mercedes at 800-FOR-MERC. They sell CDs with complete service manual for ~$100. You can find them on EBay cheaper, but often poor copies. When on the line, he can ask about a 250k-km badge, will be eligible for 500k-km badge soon. Chilton had a manual but was worthwhile mostly for the pictures--procedures and settings were often grossly inaccurate. No Bentleys. Best to check with MB dealer or 3rd party MB specialist on the transmission. Might be something as simple as adjustment. Adjusting is somewhat fiddly and benefits from having gauges to set modulator correctly. If it flares between gears, have that checked ASAP; such behavior wears internal parts quickly. At 300k-mi, the transmission is getting old. MB sells factory rebuilts with all updates and a good warranty for an attractive price--if he plans to keep the car for any length of time. Transmissions from several years interchange and one from a recycler costs less--but you take your chances. Don't even think of AAMCO or chains--capable rebuilders are rare and seldom found in such places. There are lots of sources for MB parts. I like Randy Steele at EPS (800-334-2749). Dealers often offer OEM parts at good prices. Filters and such things tend to be cheaper at the dealer than poor quality house brands at McParts. 300CDs are durable and inexpensive to maintain if you use good parts and follow the manual. Hope that helps, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Harry Hargrave Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:25 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: 85 300CD...new owner Hello all, My brother just bought a 85 300CD (turbo)...almost 300K miles.The car is in decent shape cosmetically,but is going to need some mechanical attention. What is the best manual available for this car?(haven't seen a Bentley listed). The transmission(auto) works,but is playing up.What is available in the way of a service manual and rebuild kit for this unit? Is there a general listing of parts sources for this car?(example: BMA has been very good for BMW...one of several good sources). Many thanks in advance! ===== Dennis Hargrave, Frederick,Colorado ,USA 92 BMW 535i 76 Chevrolet 3/4 ton pickup 80 Motoguzzi CX100 Lemans (partial restoration) 65 BSA Thunderbolt Rocket (Restored) 47 Indian Chief (good running original) VME member #00001506 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:59:20 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: the never-ending story... ;) Well, the sage continues... the plan a few hours ago was to drive down to California to trade my '76 280Z for an '84 300CD, see: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/84-300CD/ However, someone called on my 280Z this afternoon... he drove it and he's going to buy it... :) which means I'm not driving the Z to CA to trade for the 300CD, instead it looks like I'll buy the '85 190D that's down the street... http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ The 190D drove out nice and only has a few minor issues to deal with, while the 300CD has more issues then I wanted to deal with... although the 300CD will have more power, longer longevity, is more comfortable, nicer looking, better parts availability and so on and so on... but the 190D is clean, simple and more economical to run, and hopefully it won't need any repairs. :) The interior in the 300CD was redone nicely, check out those cloth seats, very nice... joe is asking $2,000 for the 300CD, he's on the diesel benz list... or I can pass along any emails to him... The thought of driving for 7 to 9 hours down I-5 in that little 280Z was more then I could bear... I'm glad the guy bought it... Besides, I surely would have gotten in trouble with it on the freeway, it was just way too easy to step on it and watch the needle climb. :) It's parked... I'm not driving it again... my Z days are over. first and last... ready for my 5th Benz... ;) BTW, who was it that wanted me to let them know if I passed on the 300CD??? I didn't save the email and can't remember now... sorry... john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html '83 J10 stepside (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg '87 Cherokee Pioneer (XJ) - http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/johns-87 238K! '99 Grand Cherokee Ltd (WJ) - http://wagoneers.com/WJ '67 J-100 Panel (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-67-Panel/ '77 Cherokee (SJ) - almost gone... parted... '79 Cherokee (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/GoldenEagle/ '76 Datsun 280Z - SOLD '75 Jeep J10 - trailer... '54 Chevy box... almost a trailer... (on ebay) coming soon: 1985 Mercedes Benz 190D 2.2L Diesel http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #873 *********************************