From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #912 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 7 2003 Volume 01 : Number 912 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: interesting components on the newer Diesels... Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high Re: second thoughts about recommendation bad mechanic stories Re: second thoughts about recommendation Re: bad mechanic stories Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... speakers... RE: second thoughts about recommendation... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:34:50 -0800 From: john Subject: interesting components on the newer Diesels... At 08:42 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, Richard Welty wrote: >on central avenue. Dick quickly tracked down the real reason why my wife's >1996 E300D was stalling randomly w/o a check engine light (it was sucking >air through some bad o-rings in the fool line. easy to spot once you knew, >you could see the bubbles through the semi-transparent fool line where it >connected to the filter in the engine compartment.) interesting part: "the semi-transparent fool line" Is this designed to determine if the mechanic is good or just a .... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:52:54 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:34:50 -0800 john wrote: > At 08:42 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, Richard Welty wrote: > >on central avenue. Dick quickly tracked down the real reason why my > wife's > >1996 E300D was stalling randomly w/o a check engine light (it was > sucking > >air through some bad o-rings in the fool line. easy to spot once you > knew, > >you could see the bubbles through the semi-transparent fool line where > it > >connected to the filter in the engine compartment.) > interesting part: "the semi-transparent fool line" > Is this designed to determine if the mechanic is good or just a .... ;) as i see it, the fool system is critical to the operation of the car. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 19:06:39 -0800 From: jack tavares Subject: Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high sparkythelad wrote: > I ran into the exact same problem on my 83 300D. It was the temperature > control solenoid on the bulkhead, behind the the air filter, which had stuck > in the "heat" position. Disconnect two spade connectors from the solenoid, > undo a couple of machine screws, take out the guts, clean everything up > (remove scale etc.) and reassemble. Took about 20 mins. Be careful when you > take the solenoid plunger and washers apart (one machine screw). They have > to go back EXACTLY as you removed them. (Don't reinstall them upside down.) > This has got to be about the simplest job you can do on an MB. It's as easy > as emptying the ashtrays or changing the air filter. ok, stupid question: are you talking about the airfilter under the hood? or an air filter in the hvac system? thanks - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:06:26 -0600 From: DGordon Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation I have heard it explained from several technician/owners that some of the better money is made in selling parts as the repairs are being done. In bringing your own OEM parts to have them do the work, you are cutting into their livlihood. While your livlihood, and mine, are short these days, I guess we all want to make ends meet. Don't forget they have boat payments... C'mon john - you got the tools and now the time. You know you can do a better job than anyone else... Yes, it will take you longer, etc, but you have skills, tools, time, no money... Dan ChicagoArea > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > > GP Automotive in Everett. > > > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > > > john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:34:11 -0600 From: Matthew J Mason Subject: bad mechanic stories Couldn't help but put in my $0.02 here, even though I'm not a diesel Benzer anymore (for now)... I don't recall seeing that any of us are in eastern Iowa, but when I was in college and had the 240D I looked at several places (including the dealer 56 miles north of me, the so-called Motorsport shop in town that did lots of MB and Peugeot, and a generic imports shop, also in Iowa City), and eventually settled on Star Service. They were the service end of a shop that did sales and service on strictly Mercedes (and some diesel Volvo!) for about 20 years, and then the business split because of personality conflicts between the partners (which I would come to experience later). They did some fairly minor stuff for me, but jobs I didn't have the tools or know-how to do myself (installation of 4 heavy-duty Bilstein shocks I bought from Rusty, diagnosis and replacement of two injector nozzles with bad springs, replacement of a nylon bushing in the steering system and lubrication of the steering box... and they purchased a new glow relay that I ended up installing myself, in time to get to a job interview). Pricewise, they're waaay up there, so I also usually bought my parts elsewhere and most times they were OK with installing them. Well, lo and behold, after having the car a few years and having installed a rebuilt crate engine (also purchased from Rusty -- it was a family project!), I brought the car back in for some help with corroded fuel lines. I was losing about 2 ounces of diesel a day, and bypass surgery with a rubber hose wasn't working out because the junction of the steel lines to the bottom of the fuel tank was pretty well shot. Kent, the owner, told me the following, flat out: - he hated working on the diesels and saved them for the end of the day because he went home smelling bad, - he wouldn't be bothered doing a partial repair on the fuel lines and wouldn't even think of ordering/installing new ones because it required too much "custom fitting and shaping" (I can see his point there, but he had a bad attitude), - and because he "hadn't done too much work" on the car for me (read: I hadn't bought his parts, and/or spent enough money there), he didn't think he could find the time. As if that weren't enough, I needed to pick the car up early on a snowy Saturday morning, so I arranged to pay him for the "work" he'd done, and he'd leave the keys where I could find them. Well, the driver's door lock was frozen, so I had to use a nifty workaround (try this one at home, kids) -- popped the trunk, which wasn't frozen, popped out the plastic panel behind the tail light assembly to access a rubber T-junction between two vacuum lines, and blew into the "unlock" side of the tube, which, if memory serves, was the one with the green stripe. By that time, Kent had materialized at my side with a bottle of WD-40 and a propane torch. Why he thought I'd let him near the car with that, I'm still not sure. He repeated the same refrain that I wasn't a regular customer and he hadn't done much for the car, etc. etc. ... I told him sternly not to worry, that he wouldn't have the "problem" of receiving my meager patronage any longer. At that, he threw my key, which he'd been holding, up into the air and walked away, letting it come down on my head. I'm not too easily angered (anymore), but for a good long while I resisted the urge to facilitate a brick finding its way through his shop's front window. Thankfully I moved out of town before my restraint reached its end. Sorry for the long-winded one, hope it's been entertaining at least. If you're in Iowa, steer clear of Star. Matt Mason fmr driver, '80 240D and scavenger of '82 240D parts car Grayslake, IL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:03:14 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation yeah, but it's cold and damp out there and there's all those pieces... ;) I'm having enough trouble getting motivated to fix the vacuum lock assy on the pass door and the rear antenna... hey, I did successfully install the cup holder though. ;) yeah, I can understand about making the money on parts and all that, that's fine. That's why I buy my parts the way I do. The intent was to fix this myself, but this thing is harder to work on then the 123 and 126 because it's smaller and I don't know it very well yet. I don't want to mess it up. It's not like a Jeep where battle scars add character. ;) So it's not like I was trying to cheat this guy, what got me was his lousy customer service attitude. I wasn't asking him to do the work for free, and if I'd planned from the start to have him do the work I would have let him provide the parts. What gets me is the price he quoted on the lock cylinder was about what I paid anyway... he must do a lot of volume, as expected and doesn't appear to be making a lot on the parts, so his attitude stinks even worse knowing that. :) Just bad customer service and a rotten attitude. Won't deal with him again. john At 09:06 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, DGordon wrote: >I have heard it explained from several technician/owners that some of the >better money is >made in selling parts as the repairs are being done. In bringing your own >OEM parts to >have them do the work, you are cutting into their livlihood. While your >livlihood, and >mine, are short these days, I guess we all want to make ends meet. Don't >forget they have >boat payments... > >C'mon john - you got the tools and now the time. You know you can do a >better job than >anyone else... Yes, it will take you longer, etc, but you have skills, >tools, time, no >money... >Dan ChicagoArea > > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > > > GP Automotive in Everett. > > > > > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > > > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > > > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > > > > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > > > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > > > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > > > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > > > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > > > > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > > > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > > > > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > > > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > > > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > > > > > john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:07:16 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: bad mechanic stories Grayslake??? How far is that from Crystal Lake? I grew up there... left there a long,long, long time ago... ;) interesting story... mechanics are people too I guess... ;) john At 09:34 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, Matthew J Mason wrote: >Couldn't help but put in my $0.02 here, even though I'm not a diesel >Benzer anymore (for now)... > >Sorry for the long-winded one, hope it's been entertaining at least. If >you're in Iowa, steer clear of Star. > >Matt Mason >fmr driver, '80 240D and scavenger of '82 240D parts car >Grayslake, IL - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:09:38 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... At 09:52 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, Richard Welty wrote: > > interesting part: "the semi-transparent fool line" > > Is this designed to determine if the mechanic is good or just a .... ;) >as i see it, the fool system is critical to the operation of the car. >richard is it related to the loose nut behind the wheel by any chance? ;) BTW, I thought JC was going to ask y'all about an '86 300SDL he's drooling over... I looked it up and found it to have different specs then the 350SDL, but it's still a 6 cyl... any thoughts on the 300SDL? heading back out to the carport shop to make some progress on ludwig. Hopefully my mechanic friend will show up tomorrow... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:15:36 -0800 From: john Subject: speakers... ok, I've got the flameproof suit on... here's my thought... the 190D has a nice stereo in it, but the speakers are pretty humble. I have a set of surface mount Pioneer 3-ways that I've had in a few jeeps... I'm thinking of putting them on the rear shelf... thoughts? I guess the other option is to run down to Centralia (over 100 miles south through traffic that would frustrate an LA driver) and get my new MB Quartz that are about the size of the ones in the shelf and use the surface mounts in my J10 since I'm extending the cab... hmmm... might work ok... the pioneers are pretty decent for either app. I'm not worried about theft, unless of course I have to work in Seattle... ;) Just how stupid would they look sitting on that rear shelf? Serious... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:56:51 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... John, If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. Consider what the garage owner thinks: 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty job. 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something that I will be blamed for later. 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages calculate their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, like the rest of us. Just trying to look at it from the other side, Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending GP Automotive in Everett. They made it clear that they want to provide the parts to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #912 *********************************