From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #913 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 7 2003 Volume 01 : Number 913 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: 300SDL Re: second thoughts about recommendation Re[2]: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 22:08:41 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... At 11:56 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, you wrote: >John, >Just trying to look at it from the other side, >Sam All valid points, but I understand how this business works, so what you said really didn't address the real problem. The shop isn't that good to begin with, and the only reason I felt comfortable recommending it before was their promptness and accuracy of estimates. But after this episode I'll be certain to steer people clear. That and the things they screwed up when they did work on my cars before. I don't have a problem with them providing the parts, but this situation was unique and his attitude was not customer oriented at all. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:15:49 -0500 From: "sparkythelad" Subject: Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high Jack -- I'm talking about the main air filter (big round one) beneath the hood.. The monovalve is mounted just behind it, almost dead centre of the bulkhead. If it sticks, it can cause cold A/C air all of the time **OR** hot air all of the time, no matter what position the temperature setting wheel is in. Try cleaning the shuny plunger (it just lifts out once you have the "lid" removed) and the little inside chamber of the monovalve (solenoid) BEFORE you start tearing dashboards apart, removing glove boxes, or visiting repair shops. There's also a rubber diaphragm (washer) attached to the plunger which may be damaged. If it is, it's a no-brainer to replace it too. 20 minutes maximum, 30 if yiu're totally clueless, or love bright shiny objects. Once again though, when you remove the washers and diaphragm from the plaunger to inspect and clean them, make **absolutely sure** they go back on in the same order and with the same surface facing up as they did when you removed them. --- Do the above, start and allow the motor to run for a minute or two, and you'll be e-mailing me a "thank you" in no time! 8-) Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jack tavares" To: "sparkythelad" Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high > sparkythelad wrote: > > I ran into the exact same problem on my 83 300D. It was the temperature > > control solenoid on the bulkhead, behind the the air filter, which had stuck > > in the "heat" position. Disconnect two spade connectors from the solenoid, > > undo a couple of machine screws, take out the guts, clean everything up > > (remove scale etc.) and reassemble. Took about 20 mins. Be careful when you > > take the solenoid plunger and washers apart (one machine screw). They have > > to go back EXACTLY as you removed them. (Don't reinstall them upside down.) > > This has got to be about the simplest job you can do on an MB. It's as easy > > as emptying the ashtrays or changing the air filter. > > ok, stupid question: > > are you talking about the airfilter under the hood? > > or an air filter in the hvac system? > > > thanks > -- > jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:57:48 -0500 From: "sparkythelad" Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Really EXCELLENT points, Sam! I think the restaurant analogy explains it all. If people brought their own food, it wouldn't be too long before someone figured that maybe he could reduce his bill even further, if his friend cooked the food instead of the chef. And if he brought his own cutlery, dinnerware and tablecloth, and served the food himself, he could really save a bundle. Then of course, when the restaurant declared bankruptcy and closed its doors, he'd be the first one to bemoan the fact that there's no good restaurants in town any more. If the mechanic doesn't have access to the part quickly, or is willing to use a customer-supplied used part that's fine. But it's a matter for negotiation beforehand, and if they say "no" that's no reason to become upset with them. The customer doesn't like it if the shop tries to nickel & dime them to death (in their view) -- so why should the repair shop be any different when the situation is reversed? They have mortgages and employees to pay, and a family to feed, and they went into business (with all of its overhead costs, financial risks, pitfalls, rules and regulations) to make money, not to do favours -- which is EXACTLY what they're doing by using "purchased elsewhere" parts. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> To: "john" ; Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:56 AM Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... > John, > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: > > 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on > parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to > nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 > minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. > After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try > to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. > > 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty > work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make > up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty job. > > 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something > that I will be blamed for later. > > 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I > have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- > then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, > he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about > paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part > and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. > > 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for > breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. > > 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? > Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly > when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time > diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose > and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his > part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? > > 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even > on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages calculate > their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate > to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) > > 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this > for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. > > One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. > Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, > like the rest of us. > > Just trying to look at it from the other side, > > Sam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > GP Automotive in Everett. > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:24:36 EST From: Thrushpres-at-aol.com Subject: Re: 300SDL The 6 cyl 126 cars are great highway machines, they are much smoother than the 5cyl. Have some cyl head highway overheating problems due to aluminum head- look for a casting # with last 3 as 118 ( revised and imporved replacement circa 1989) vs. the original 116. As with any 126, make sure of the a/c system as the Sanyo ( I think) compressers are teflon lined and can sieze and spray the "black death" into the evaporator and othe parts, with a $2.5k bill to put it back right. The old " she just needs a charge" is a sign to deduct $1k from the otherwise fair price, unless you like to listen to the motor with the windows rolled down! Tom Thrush Denver Co 86 300SDL-275k ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:32:30 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation You have a point Dan. In my situation however, I'd already bought a new front coil spring from Rusty (saved big $) and had intended to install myself. After realizing that my life was worth more than the saved $'s I tried to find someone in the Milwaukee area to install the spring I had already bought. It took me a few weeks to find a guy with a small shop on the north side of town that was willing to do the work. He had a small shop and was "hungrier" than the other guys ;) Local independant right in my own town gave me a real snooty attitude and basically told me to get bent. I'll never recommend him. Not becuase he wouldn't do the work. But because of the attitude that went along with it. Just my $.02 ;) Jim/ '83 240D > I have heard it explained from several technician/owners that some of the better money is > made in selling parts as the repairs are being done. In bringing your own OEM parts to > have them do the work, you are cutting into their livlihood. While your livlihood, and > mine, are short these days, I guess we all want to make ends meet. Don't forget they have > boat payments... > > C'mon john - you got the tools and now the time. You know you can do a better job than > anyone else... Yes, it will take you longer, etc, but you have skills, tools, time, no > money... > Dan ChicagoArea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:33:43 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Welty Subject: Re[2]: second thoughts about recommendation... as a purely practical matter, the mechanics i like to work with are the ones who know me, and who will use my parts in cases where i was going to do the work myself and punted. they let me do this because they know me, and they know that it's not my normal practice. going up to a mechanic who doesn't already have a customer-mechanic relationship with you and asking him to use your parts generally doesn't work. only exception i've seen recently is the old Alfa dealer here in Albany who actually suggested i order the parts for my 164 because the service manager considered finding the parts a pain in the butt, and was happy to dump that effort onto me. in his view, the markup wasn't worth the time and energy. richard - -- Richard Welty rwelty-at-suespammers.org Averill Park Networking rwelty-at-averillpark.net Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com 518-573-7592 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:44:08 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... I think John's and my point isn't so much that they said "no", it was HOW they said now. If Sam ran the shop and looked me in the eye and politly explained all the points he made in his e-mail, I'd have to say "I inderstand" and look elsewhere. I probably wouldn't LIKE it but I couldn't be too upset. :) BUT, some of the attitudes I got when I asked were just awfull. Jim/ > Really EXCELLENT points, Sam! I think the restaurant analogy explains it > all. If people brought their own food, it wouldn't be too long before > someone figured that maybe he could reduce his bill even further, if his > friend cooked the food instead of the chef. And if he brought his own > cutlery, dinnerware and tablecloth, and served the food himself, he could > really save a bundle. Then of course, when the restaurant declared > bankruptcy and closed its doors, he'd be the first one to bemoan the fact > that there's no good restaurants in town any more. > > If the mechanic doesn't have access to the part quickly, or is willing to > use a customer-supplied used part that's fine. But it's a matter for > negotiation beforehand, and if they say "no" that's no reason to become > upset with them. The customer doesn't like it if the shop tries to nickel & > dime them to death (in their view) -- so why should the repair shop be any > different when the situation is reversed? They have mortgages and employees > to pay, and a family to feed, and they went into business (with all of its > overhead costs, financial risks, pitfalls, rules and regulations) to make > money, not to do favours -- which is EXACTLY what they're doing by using > "purchased elsewhere" parts. > > Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> > To: "john" ; > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:56 AM > Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > > John, > > > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: > > > > 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on > > parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to > > nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 > > minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. > > After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try > > to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. > > > > 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty > > work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make > > up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty job. > > > > 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something > > that I will be blamed for later. > > > > 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I > > have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- > > then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, > > he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about > > paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part > > and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. > > > > 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for > > breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. > > > > 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? > > Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly > > when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time > > diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose > > and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his > > part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? > > > > 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even > > on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages calculate > > their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate > > to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) > > > > 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this > > for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. > > > > One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. > > Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, > > like the rest of us. > > > > Just trying to look at it from the other side, > > > > Sam > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > > GP Automotive in Everett. > > > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #913 *********************************