From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #914 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, March 8 2003 Volume 01 : Number 914 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... Re: second thoughts about recommendation... RE: second thoughts about recommendation... RE: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:44:19 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... I think John's and my point isn't so much that they said "no", it was HOW they said no. If Sam ran the shop and looked me in the eye and politly explained all the points he made in his e-mail, I'd have to say "I inderstand" and look elsewhere. I probably wouldn't LIKE it but I couldn't be too upset. :) BUT, some of the attitudes I got when I asked were just awfull. Jim/ > Really EXCELLENT points, Sam! I think the restaurant analogy explains it > all. If people brought their own food, it wouldn't be too long before > someone figured that maybe he could reduce his bill even further, if his > friend cooked the food instead of the chef. And if he brought his own > cutlery, dinnerware and tablecloth, and served the food himself, he could > really save a bundle. Then of course, when the restaurant declared > bankruptcy and closed its doors, he'd be the first one to bemoan the fact > that there's no good restaurants in town any more. > > If the mechanic doesn't have access to the part quickly, or is willing to > use a customer-supplied used part that's fine. But it's a matter for > negotiation beforehand, and if they say "no" that's no reason to become > upset with them. The customer doesn't like it if the shop tries to nickel & > dime them to death (in their view) -- so why should the repair shop be any > different when the situation is reversed? They have mortgages and employees > to pay, and a family to feed, and they went into business (with all of its > overhead costs, financial risks, pitfalls, rules and regulations) to make > money, not to do favours -- which is EXACTLY what they're doing by using > "purchased elsewhere" parts. > > Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> > To: "john" ; > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:56 AM > Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > > John, > > > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: > > > > 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on > > parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to > > nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 > > minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. > > After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try > > to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. > > > > 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty > > work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make > > up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty job. > > > > 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something > > that I will be blamed for later. > > > > 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I > > have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- > > then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, > > he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about > > paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part > > and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. > > > > 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for > > breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. > > > > 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? > > Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly > > when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time > > diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose > > and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his > > part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? > > > > 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even > > on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages calculate > > their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate > > to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) > > > > 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this > > for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. > > > > One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. > > Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, > > like the rest of us. > > > > Just trying to look at it from the other side, > > > > Sam > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > > GP Automotive in Everett. > > > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 07:44:30 -0800 From: jack tavares Subject: Re: Temp sensor doesn't work anymore. Stuck on high sparkythelad wrote: > Jack -- I'm talking about the main air filter (big round one) beneath the > hood.. The monovalve is mounted just behind it, almost dead centre of the > bulkhead. If it sticks, it can cause cold A/C air all of the time **OR** hot > air all of the time, no matter what position the temperature setting wheel > is in. Try cleaning the shuny plunger (it just lifts out once you have the > "lid" removed) and the little inside chamber of the monovalve (solenoid) > BEFORE you start tearing dashboards apart, removing glove boxes, or visiting > repair shops. There's also a rubber diaphragm (washer) attached to the > plunger which may be damaged. If it is, it's a no-brainer to replace it too. > 20 minutes maximum, 30 if yiu're totally clueless, or love bright shiny > objects. > > Once again though, when you remove the washers and diaphragm from the > plaunger to inspect and clean them, make **absolutely sure** they go back on > in the same order and with the same surface facing up as they did when you > removed them. --- Do the above, start and allow the motor to run for a > minute or two, and you'll be e-mailing me a "thank you" in no time! 8-) > Thanks again. My first thought when I read your email was that you were indeed talking about the aircleaner under the hood. (The car is my girl friend's. I dont drive it much so I didnt have a chance to look at it yet) Then i thought: well maybe he meant an air filter in the hvac system. Thanks for the clarification. I shall look at it this weekend. No big rush. The always on nature of this is considered a bonus to my always cold gf. It will become a problem the first time I need to usethe car or summer arrives :-) - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:47:41 -0500 From: "sparkythelad" Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hoffman" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 9:44 AM Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... > I think John's and my point isn't so much that they said "no", it > was HOW they said no. Jim -- OK. I can understand now. I thought the point being made was that their refusal to do the work wasn't very customer-oriented, rather than *how* they refused. This is maybe where Sam & I got confused.....8-)> The Other Jim "...> > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude...." "...Their > > > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > > > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:50:00 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... > BTW, I thought JC was going to ask y'all about an '86 300SDL he's > drooling over... I looked it up and found it to have different > specs then the 350SDL, but it's still a 6 cyl... any thoughts > on the 300SDL? > > john > The 86 300SDL is the good 3.0 version of the 6 cylinder diesel, not the risky 3.5 liter version used later. I think it has an aluminum head and a cast iron block, so there is the potential for ugliness if temperature is not maintained properly. As long as you don't let it overheat in a nasty way, these are supposed to be great motors, stronger and smoother than the 5 cylinder OM617, but I suspect they are a little less conducive to DIY work, and the ALDA/boost tweaks that can make an OM617 turbodiesel into a barn burner cannot be done to the 6 cylinder. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:16:07 -0800 From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> To: "john" ; Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 9:56 PM Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... > John, > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: *** It's all a matter of supply & demand. If a garage is overflowing with customers, they can refuse the less $$$ ones. If they're hurting for customers, they'll agree to use your parts. I've had it go both ways. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:05:24 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: interesting components on the newer Diesels... thanx. JC, did ya hear that? ;) john At 10:50 AM 3/7/2003 +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > > BTW, I thought JC was going to ask y'all about an '86 300SDL he's > > drooling over... I looked it up a >till a 6 cyl... any thoughts > > on the 300SDL? > > > > john > > > >The 86 300SDL is the good 3.0 version of the 6 cylinder diesel, not the risky >3.5 liter version used later. I think it has an aluminum head and a cast iron >block, so there is the potential for ugliness if temperature is not >maintained >properly. As long as you don't let it overheat in a nasty way, these are >supposed to be great motors, stronger and smoother than the 5 cylinder OM617, >but I suspect they are a little less conducive to DIY work, and the >ALDA/boost >tweaks that can make an OM617 turbodiesel into a barn burner cannot be >done to >the 6 cylinder. > >Alec - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:11:43 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... the guy was going to do the work... but he couldn't fit me in until next Wednesday... It was the ATTITUDE, tone of voice, and the manner in which he spoke to me. He was willing to do the work, and his explanation about providing the parts was based on warranty and so on... no problem with all that. It was just the attitude plain and simple. It was NOT customer oriented at all. john At 10:47 AM 3/7/2003 -0500, sparkythelad wrote: > > I think John's and my point isn't so much that they said "no", it > > was HOW they said no. > >Jim -- OK. I can understand now. I thought the point being made was that >their refusal to do the work wasn't very customer-oriented, rather than >*how* they refused. This is maybe where Sam & I got confused.....8-)> > >The Other Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:17:26 -0600 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... John, Yours are more valid points about the problems with this specific dealer than my general ones. I'm sorry you are having so much difficulty with the new car--must be extremely frustrating. Best wishes for speedy resolution of the problem. Sam - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:09 AM To: Sam Williams Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... At 11:56 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, you wrote: >John, >Just trying to look at it from the other side, >Sam All valid points, but I understand how this business works, so what you said really didn't address the real problem. The shop isn't that good to begin with, and the only reason I felt comfortable recommending it before was their promptness and accuracy of estimates. But after this episode I'll be certain to steer people clear. That and the things they screwed up when they did work on my cars before. I don't have a problem with them providing the parts, but this situation was unique and his attitude was not customer oriented at all. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:33:03 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... At 02:17 PM 3/7/2003 -0600, Sam Williams wrote: >John, >Yours are more valid points about the problems with this specific >dealer than my general ones. I'm sorry you are having so much very true. I've dealt with these guys before. Attitude is everything and their attitude seems to have changed. >difficulty with the new car--must be extremely frustrating. not a big deal, parts fail. waiting for my mechanic friend to show up... I can see why my friend let him go... but he's a good wrench and I've got three other vehicles to drive so I don't mind waiting. ;) I'm also having some issues with the parts I got from the dealer, it seems that they don't match the car... :( not sure if it's a new parts guy or what. Need to run a core back tomorrow, hopefully will have it straightened out... looks like it's snowing out, so I'll be driving the Cherokee anyway. :) (first snow of the year/winter!!!! :) john >Best wishes for speedy resolution of the problem. thanx. >Sam - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:52:17 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Heh, They probably dont do diesel because there is not a lot of money in it . The diesels seem to keep running on their own most of the time. Not a lot to go wrong really. R. On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 08:22 PM, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 07:33:46PM -0500, Robert Chase wrote: >> Im the same way though John. Try to screw me and im gone. I went >> through every Volvo Dealer in Atlanta and then onto several >> independants. > > Man. I thought lousy mechanics all congregated to the bay area. Looks > like > they've bred. Too bad. > > Mechanics around here are soooo bad that often times I have to trailer > a dead > something 90 miles one way just to find someone who does the job right > for > the agreed price and doesn't try to hose me up or bend me over. I know > of > a good place in redwood city, but they don't work on a lot of the weird > stuff > I have. > > And my place in patterson doesn't do diesel, so when I finally get the > benz, > I'm on my own. *sigh* > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:59:53 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Hmmm, So like have none of the "bad mechanics" been to business 101? You dont make money screwing your customers. The customers get resentful and never come back. Its probably easier to work on a car you "know" rather than a new one every time. A new one with new things to watch out for and new things to "bite you in the butt" if your not careful. A customer treated with respect and given what they paid for will come back over and over again. And when they are in there is always chances to give them value added services. "Oh Mr Smith. I Notice your grille is cracked on your W-126. We can get the part for $40 bucks and can make you a deal since we already have the hood up and are working on your oil." You give the customer the option of having the work done (especially something that will give them an enhanced ownership experience) and they will probably go ahead and have it done. R. On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 08:59 PM, john wrote: > At 11:38 AM 3/7/2003 +1000, Guy Carpenter wrote: >> They are too far south to be practical for John, > > especially considering the locked straight ahead wheels... ;) > > I've heard about this guy before. One of these days when > I'm down there, hmmm... the moonshiner's swap meet (4x4) > is sunday, will be heading down to Puyallup... could drive > by and check it out. > > >> but we've had wonderful service from Friedels in Renton. >> They specialize in MB's and maybe also do VW's. >> >> FRIEDELS >> 345 Factory Pl N >> Renton WA 98055 >> (425) 228-4262 >> >> They are a trip back to the 50's. My wife always >> took our 300D in, and came back smiling with lots >> of good fatherly advice to pass on to me. And they >> did a good job at a very reasonable price. > > sounds like the kind of place you WANT to recommend and > not some greedy attituded independent. I understand > the idea behind the parts thing, but give me a break, > the car is down and worse then I thought. Well, it'll > cost them because a lot of people come to me for advice > in this realm and I won't forget the lousy attitude any > time soon. > >> There used to be a place as good near here, but >> Graham retired and left us all to the sharks. >> Cheers, Guy. > > yeah, the good guys shouldn't be allowed to retire... ;) > > john > > > > >> At 05:13 PM 6/03/2003 -0800, john wrote: >>> At 07:33 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, Robert Chase wrote: >>>> hmm, >>>> >>>> They refused to do the work with your parts at all? >>> >>> just about... the attitude was pretty bad. made it >>> no secret that they make their money from parts and weren't >>> interested in helping me out. I haven't dealt with them >>> for a few years, kind of remember going through the same >>> thing before and I just returned the parts to the dealer >>> and bought them from them. But in the course of fixing my >>> car they also broke a vacuum line, which I fixed on my own >>> and didn't say anything... and then they did some work on >>> my daughters car and pointed out that something was about >>> to break, but didn't bother to fix it... it broke later >>> leaving me another project... so besides the attitude I >>> guess GP Automotive has other shortcomings that I overlooked >>> because they stuck to their estimate and scheduled time of >>> completion. So if you're willing to pay more and get nothing >>> more, but on time and mostly right the first time they're >>> fine... ;) >>> >>> >>>> If you were in the Atlanta area I would suggest Volrepairs II. They >>>> do >>> >>> I think I'd rather fix it myself then live in Georgia again... ;) >>> >>>> Im the same way though John. Try to screw me and im gone. I went >>>> through every Volvo Dealer in Atlanta and then onto several >>>> independants. >>> >>> finding a good mechanic is extremely hard... >>> >>> They really pushed my button with their attitude... >>> >>> john >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #914 *********************************