From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #915 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, March 8 2003 Volume 01 : Number 915 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: bad mechanic stories Re: speakers... Re: second thoughts about recommendation... RE: second thoughts about recommendation... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:13:23 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: bad mechanic stories Heh, Key throwing? I had a service advisor in a Volvo Dealer toss paperwork at me. I filled his service bay with thick choking smoke from the full throttle burn out of my 5spd S70. Months later picking up a friend from his visit at the same shop (no he would not listen to me) I noticed they had made an attempt to clean the tire marks from the white floor unsucessfully . Too bad your 240 did not need a diesel purge leaving smelly diesel fuel all over his driveway :) R. On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 10:34 PM, Matthew J Mason wrote: > Couldn't help but put in my $0.02 here, even though I'm not a diesel > Benzer anymore (for now)... > > I don't recall seeing that any of us are in eastern Iowa, but when I was > in college and had the 240D I looked at several places (including the > dealer 56 miles north of me, the so-called Motorsport shop in town that > did lots of MB and Peugeot, and a generic imports shop, also in Iowa > City), and eventually settled on Star Service. They were the service > end > of a shop that did sales and service on strictly Mercedes (and some > diesel Volvo!) for about 20 years, and then the business split because > of > personality conflicts between the partners (which I would come to > experience later). > > They did some fairly minor stuff for me, but jobs I didn't have the > tools > or know-how to do myself (installation of 4 heavy-duty Bilstein shocks I > bought from Rusty, diagnosis and replacement of two injector nozzles > with > bad springs, replacement of a nylon bushing in the steering system and > lubrication of the steering box... and they purchased a new glow relay > that I ended up installing myself, in time to get to a job interview). > Pricewise, they're waaay up there, so I also usually bought my parts > elsewhere and most times they were OK with installing them. > > Well, lo and behold, after having the car a few years and having > installed a rebuilt crate engine (also purchased from Rusty -- it was a > family project!), I brought the car back in for some help with corroded > fuel lines. I was losing about 2 ounces of diesel a day, and bypass > surgery with a rubber hose wasn't working out because the junction of > the > steel lines to the bottom of the fuel tank was pretty well shot. Kent, > the owner, told me the following, flat out: > > - he hated working on the diesels and saved them for the end of > the day because he went home smelling bad, > - he wouldn't be bothered doing a partial repair on the fuel > lines and wouldn't even think of ordering/installing new ones because it > required too much "custom fitting and shaping" (I can see his point > there, but he had a bad attitude), > - and because he "hadn't done too much work" on the car for me > (read: I hadn't bought his parts, and/or spent enough money there), he > didn't think he could find the time. > > As if that weren't enough, I needed to pick the car up early on a snowy > Saturday morning, so I arranged to pay him for the "work" he'd done, and > he'd leave the keys where I could find them. Well, the driver's door > lock was frozen, so I had to use a nifty workaround (try this one at > home, kids) -- popped the trunk, which wasn't frozen, popped out the > plastic panel behind the tail light assembly to access a rubber > T-junction between two vacuum lines, and blew into the "unlock" side of > the tube, which, if memory serves, was the one with the green stripe. > By > that time, Kent had materialized at my side with a bottle of WD-40 and a > propane torch. Why he thought I'd let him near the car with that, I'm > still not sure. He repeated the same refrain that I wasn't a regular > customer and he hadn't done much for the car, etc. etc. ... I told him > sternly not to worry, that he wouldn't have the "problem" of receiving > my > meager patronage any longer. At that, he threw my key, which he'd been > holding, up into the air and walked away, letting it come down on my > head. > > I'm not too easily angered (anymore), but for a good long while I > resisted the urge to facilitate a brick finding its way through his > shop's front window. Thankfully I moved out of town before my restraint > reached its end. > > Sorry for the long-winded one, hope it's been entertaining at least. If > you're in Iowa, steer clear of Star. > > Matt Mason > fmr driver, '80 240D and scavenger of '82 240D parts car > Grayslake, IL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:15:50 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: speakers... Whell It would make your car an easy choice for my purchacing needs. I would see the speakers in the back window and waste no more of your time. Don't do it John. I run screaming for non factory stereo installs let alone someone putting speaker grilles on top of the package shelf. R. On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 11:15 PM, john wrote: > ok, I've got the flameproof suit on... here's my thought... > > the 190D has a nice stereo in it, but the speakers are pretty > humble. I have a set of surface mount Pioneer 3-ways that I've > had in a few jeeps... I'm thinking of putting > them on the rear shelf... > > thoughts? > > I guess the other option is to run down to Centralia (over 100 miles > south through traffic that would frustrate an LA driver) > and get my new MB Quartz that are about the size of the ones > in the shelf and use the surface mounts in my J10 since I'm > extending the cab... hmmm... might work ok... the pioneers are > pretty decent for either app. I'm not worried about theft, > unless of course I have to work in Seattle... ;) > > Just how stupid would they look sitting on that rear shelf? Serious... > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:24:31 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Sam, There are ways around all the scenerios you listed. You advise your customer that you will do a diagnosis first and determine the problem. If you dont need his parts dont use them and advise him of the actual issues. If he does not agree he can pick up his car and pay you for the work you have done. I almost bought parts for a repair once but decided to let the mechanic work on my car. It was a shutoff problem and I had done some diagnosis with a vacuum pump. I was 99% certain that it was the shutoff vacuum element and asked them directly to replace it. I noticed the bill was lower and they indicated that it was a faulty vacuum line and the part was not needed. The main problem is determining and managing your customers expectations up front. You cannot draw conclusions about every customer without talking to them. If you do you risk insulting them or pissing them off. You cant really get by cherry picking jobs because the first job "you dont wanna do" will make your customer think your not capable of doing it or your not interested in their business. The garrage owner's business issues should NEVER become privy to customer considerations. Its completely unprofessional. Imagine your physician/surgeon saying "whell I could help you but colon work really bugs me because I cant deal with the smell of shit for five hours and your insurance company will only let me charge $1000". While its not fair to compare the medical field with the mechanical field due to its complexity could you imagine your shock with an answer like that? Would you let this idiot near you with a scalpel? R. On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 12:56 AM, Sam Williams wrote: > John, > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: > > 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on > parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to > nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 > minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. > After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try > to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. > > 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty > work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make > up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty > job. > > 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something > that I will be blamed for later. > > 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I > have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- > then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, > he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about > paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part > and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. > > 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for > breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. > > 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? > Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly > when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time > diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose > and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his > part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? > > 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even > on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages > calculate > their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate > to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) > > 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this > for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. > > One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. > Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, > like the rest of us. > > Just trying to look at it from the other side, > > Sam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > GP Automotive in Everett. > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:43:49 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... Having worked at dealerships, independents, having my own shop, etc - I never had a problem with a customer bringing their own parts. I always made sure to explain that if the part failed, and/or caused damage, I would not be responsible. I also noted the ticket. I replaced the starter, on one customers car, 4-5 times(over 2-3 years). His son worked for a parts outlet and got the starter cheap. Warranty does not cover my labor if I did not supply the part. He understood. I just got tired of working on other's crap - I now support Johnson & Johnson's mainframe and purchasing operations. Work smarter, not harder. ;) Waylon Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Robert Chase [mailto:beostar-at-sdf.lonestar.org] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:25 PM To: Sam Williams Cc: john; diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Sam, There are ways around all the scenerios you listed. You advise your customer that you will do a diagnosis first and determine the problem. If you dont need his parts dont use them and advise him of the actual issues. If he does not agree he can pick up his car and pay you for the work you have done. I almost bought parts for a repair once but decided to let the mechanic work on my car. It was a shutoff problem and I had done some diagnosis with a vacuum pump. I was 99% certain that it was the shutoff vacuum element and asked them directly to replace it. I noticed the bill was lower and they indicated that it was a faulty vacuum line and the part was not needed. The main problem is determining and managing your customers expectations up front. You cannot draw conclusions about every customer without talking to them. If you do you risk insulting them or pissing them off. You cant really get by cherry picking jobs because the first job "you dont wanna do" will make your customer think your not capable of doing it or your not interested in their business. The garrage owner's business issues should NEVER become privy to customer considerations. Its completely unprofessional. Imagine your physician/surgeon saying "whell I could help you but colon work really bugs me because I cant deal with the smell of shit for five hours and your insurance company will only let me charge $1000". While its not fair to compare the medical field with the mechanical field due to its complexity could you imagine your shock with an answer like that? Would you let this idiot near you with a scalpel? R. On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 12:56 AM, Sam Williams wrote: > John, > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: > > 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on > parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to > nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 > minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. > After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try > to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. > > 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty > work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make > up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty > job. > > 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something > that I will be blamed for later. > > 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I > have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- > then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, > he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about > paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part > and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. > > 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for > breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. > > 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? > Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly > when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time > diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose > and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his > part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? > > 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even > on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages > calculate > their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate > to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) > > 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this > for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. > > One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. > Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, > like the rest of us. > > Just trying to look at it from the other side, > > Sam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > GP Automotive in Everett. > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #915 *********************************