From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #916 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, March 8 2003 Volume 01 : Number 916 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: speakers... RE: second thoughts about recommendation... Re: speakers... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:15:55 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... Hmmm, I think I would rather work on cars than IT. One does not get "fork lift upgraded" out of a job. R. On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 06:43 PM, Black, Waylon wrote: > Having worked at dealerships, independents, having my own shop, etc - I > never had a problem with a customer bringing their own parts. I always > made > sure to explain that if the part failed, and/or caused damage, I would > not > be responsible. I also noted the ticket. I replaced the starter, on one > customers car, 4-5 times(over 2-3 years). His son worked for a parts > outlet > and got the starter cheap. Warranty does not cover my labor if I did not > supply the part. He understood. > > I just got tired of working on other's crap - I now support Johnson & > Johnson's mainframe and purchasing operations. Work smarter, not > harder. ;) > > > Waylon > Dallas, Texas > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Chase [mailto:beostar-at-sdf.lonestar.org] > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:25 PM > To: Sam Williams > Cc: john; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... > > Sam, > > There are ways around all the scenerios you listed. You advise your > customer that you will do a diagnosis first and determine the problem. > If you dont need his parts dont use them and advise him of the actual > issues. If he does not agree he can pick up his car and pay you for the > work you have done. > > I almost bought parts for a repair once but decided to let the mechanic > work on my car. It was a shutoff problem and I had done some diagnosis > with a vacuum pump. I was 99% certain that it was the shutoff vacuum > element and asked them directly to replace it. I noticed the bill was > lower and they indicated that it was a faulty vacuum line and the part > was not needed. > > The main problem is determining and managing your customers expectations > up front. You cannot draw conclusions about every customer without > talking to them. If you do you risk insulting them or pissing them > off. You cant really get by cherry picking jobs because the first job > "you dont wanna do" will make your customer think your not capable of > doing it or your not interested in their business. > > The garrage owner's business issues should NEVER become privy to > customer considerations. Its completely unprofessional. Imagine your > physician/surgeon saying "whell I could help you but colon work really > bugs me because I cant deal with the smell of shit for five hours and > your insurance company will only let me charge $1000". While its not > fair to compare the medical field with the mechanical field due to its > complexity could you imagine your shock with an answer like that? Would > you let this idiot near you with a scalpel? > > R. > > On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 12:56 AM, Sam Williams wrote: > >> John, >> >> If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when >> a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a >> customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the >> rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. >> >> Consider what the garage owner thinks: >> >> 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on >> parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to >> nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 >> minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. >> After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try >> to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. >> >> 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, >> dirty >> work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't >> make >> up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty >> job. >> >> 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something >> that I will be blamed for later. >> >> 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I >> have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- >> then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, >> he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about >> paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part >> and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. >> >> 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for >> breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. >> >> 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? >> Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly >> when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time >> diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose >> and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his >> part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? >> >> 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break >> even >> on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages >> calculate >> their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor >> rate >> to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) >> >> 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this >> for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. >> >> One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. >> Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, >> like the rest of us. >> >> Just trying to look at it from the other side, >> >> Sam >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john >> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM >> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... >> >> >> I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending >> GP Automotive in Everett. >> >> They made it clear that they want to provide the parts >> to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM >> parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. >> >> It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very >> customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat >> them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged >> on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this >> job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. >> >> So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of >> any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. >> >> I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their >> attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer >> and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. >> >> john >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:00:49 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: speakers... they look awful big on that rear shelf... my mechanic was over today and also discouraged the idea... :) guess I'll head over to cartoys and see if they have a sale on some 4" MB Quartz. :) that is as soon as we have the benz running again... need more parts... heading to the dealer tomorrow before class. (teach on Saturdays) john At 06:15 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, Robert Chase wrote: >Whell It would make your car an easy choice for my purchacing needs. I >would see the speakers in the back window and waste no more of your time. > >Don't do it John. I run screaming for non factory stereo installs let >alone someone putting speaker grilles on top of the package shelf. > >R. > > >On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 11:15 PM, john wrote: > >>ok, I've got the flameproof suit on... here's my thought... >> >>the 190D has a nice stereo in it, but the speakers are pretty >>humble. I have a set of surface mount Pioneer 3-ways that I've >>had in a few jeeps... I'm thinking of putting >>them on the rear shelf... >> >>thoughts? >> >>I guess the other option is to run down to Centralia (over 100 miles >>south through traffic that would frustrate an LA driver) >>and get my new MB Quartz that are about the size of the ones >>in the shelf and use the surface mounts in my J10 since I'm >>extending the cab... hmmm... might work ok... the pioneers are >>pretty decent for either app. I'm not worried about theft, >>unless of course I have to work in Seattle... ;) >> >>Just how stupid would they look sitting on that rear shelf? Serious... >> >>john >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:04:55 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: second thoughts about recommendation... See, this is the kind of attitude that you want in a mechanic. I would have been a loyal customer, just like I am to Jim Startup's. He doesn't whine and moan if I bring in my own parts and oil, and he's quite reasonable on the labor. He knows how many clueless, helpless people with steady incomes and used imports I've sent his way. :) My benz is still down and the dash is in pieces all over... :) need a couple more parts... thankfully my '87 XJ is running fine. :) later, john At 05:43 PM 3/7/2003 -0600, Black, Waylon wrote: >Having worked at dealerships, independents, having my own shop, etc - I >never had a problem with a customer bringing their own parts. I always made >sure to explain that if the part failed, and/or caused damage, I would not >be responsible. I also noted the ticket. I replaced the starter, on one >customers car, 4-5 times(over 2-3 years). His son worked for a parts outlet >and got the starter cheap. Warranty does not cover my labor if I did not >supply the part. He understood. > >I just got tired of working on other's crap - I now support Johnson & >Johnson's mainframe and purchasing operations. Work smarter, not harder. ;) > > >Waylon >Dallas, Texas > > > > -----Original Message----- >From: Robert Chase [mailto:beostar-at-sdf.lonestar.org] >Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 5:25 PM >To: Sam Williams >Cc: john; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: second thoughts about recommendation... > >Sam, > >There are ways around all the scenerios you listed. You advise your >customer that you will do a diagnosis first and determine the problem. >If you dont need his parts dont use them and advise him of the actual >issues. If he does not agree he can pick up his car and pay you for the >work you have done. > >I almost bought parts for a repair once but decided to let the mechanic >work on my car. It was a shutoff problem and I had done some diagnosis >with a vacuum pump. I was 99% certain that it was the shutoff vacuum >element and asked them directly to replace it. I noticed the bill was >lower and they indicated that it was a faulty vacuum line and the part >was not needed. > >The main problem is determining and managing your customers expectations >up front. You cannot draw conclusions about every customer without >talking to them. If you do you risk insulting them or pissing them >off. You cant really get by cherry picking jobs because the first job >"you dont wanna do" will make your customer think your not capable of >doing it or your not interested in their business. > >The garrage owner's business issues should NEVER become privy to >customer considerations. Its completely unprofessional. Imagine your >physician/surgeon saying "whell I could help you but colon work really >bugs me because I cant deal with the smell of shit for five hours and >your insurance company will only let me charge $1000". While its not >fair to compare the medical field with the mechanical field due to its >complexity could you imagine your shock with an answer like that? Would >you let this idiot near you with a scalpel? > >R. > >On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 12:56 AM, Sam Williams wrote: > > > John, > > > > If I ran a garage, I would make it a rule to never take a job when > > a customer supplies parts. If I ran a restaurant, I'd never let a > > customer bring their own food for the chef to cook. Might bend the > > rule for a good, long-time customer but not often. > > > > Consider what the garage owner thinks: > > > > 1 Maybe it's someone really cheap who already thinks I gouge people on > > parts prices. He'll probably bitch because I round my hourly rate to > > nearest half hour and he'll refuse to pay me for more than 1 hr 22 > > minutes, as timed by his stop watch and figured on his calculator. > > After two hours of argument, I'll settle for 1hr and 22 mins and try > > to make up for the work I lost while he argued about it. > > > > 2 Maybe he's a talented mechanic but this job is nothing but hard, dirty > > work that I hate doing too. Even at twice my hourly rate, it won't make > > up for the back problems I'll have for a week after doing this nasty > > job. > > > > 3 Maybe he's a dufus who already started the job but he broke something > > that I will be blamed for later. > > > > 4 Maybe it's the wrong part and he's going to be real unhappy when I > > have his car for 3 weeks while he first tries to exchange the part-- > > then I will have to order the right part from my supplier and then, > > he'll never stop complaining about the price. He'll be unhappy about > > paying for the time I spent before discovering it was the wrong part > > and he'll never pay for taking up parking space at my shop, either. > > > > 5 Maybe the part is bad. He won't believe that and will blame me for > > breaking it while putting it in--then refuse to pay. > > > > 6 Maybe the part isn't what's wrong with the car. Do I diagnose first? > > Do I replace part when it might not be what he needs? It will be ugly > > when I've done the work and his car still doesn,t run. If I spend time > > diagnosing and he's right, will he pay for diagnosis? If I diagnose > > and he's wrong, will he pay for diagnosis? Will he simply take his > > part and do his own repair, per my diagnosis? > > > > 7 Maybe the job will go OK, business is slow, and I'll almost break even > > on my labor rate even if I don't make any profit. (Most garages > > calculate > > their rate based on profit from parts sales as well as hourly labor rate > > to offset salaries, facilities, advertizing, supplies, etc. costs.) > > > > 8 Maybe he's a nice guy who will send me lots of business if I do this > > for him and I'll be stinking rich in no time. > > > > One chance in eight that the garage stays in business in the situation. > > Mechanics are often decent people, just working hard to make a living, > > like the rest of us. > > > > Just trying to look at it from the other side, > > > > Sam > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:45 PM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: second thoughts about recommendation... > > > > > > I'm having second, and third, thoughts about recommending > > GP Automotive in Everett. > > > > They made it clear that they want to provide the parts > > to do the repair, even though I've already got the OEM > > parts for the ignition switch repair from the dealer. > > > > It seems to me that that kind of attitude is not very > > customer oriented. It's not like I was trying to cheat > > them out of anything. I really don't care to be gouged > > on parts either, but I need a specialist to do this > > job and really didn't expect that kind of lame attitude. > > > > So, if you're up in the North end of Seattle and know of > > any other Benz mechanics I'd like to hear about them. > > > > I withdraw my recommendation for GP Automotive. Their > > attitude is simply not oriented to serving the customer > > and represent to me a greedy and inflexible attitude. > > > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:22:11 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: speakers... At 09:14 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, Robert Chase wrote: >John, >Why not put the small speakers in and then splurge for a bass tube to help >them out a little on the low end. One can easily remove a powered sub >woofer from a car like it never existed for anal retentive types like >myself . >R. where would the woofer go??? that's a tiny little car... ;) john >On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 09:00 PM, john wrote: > >> >>they look awful big on that rear shelf... my mechanic was over >>today and also discouraged the idea... :) guess I'll head over >>to cartoys and see if they have a sale on some 4" MB Quartz. :) >> >>that is as soon as we have the benz running again... need more parts... >> >>heading to the dealer tomorrow before class. (teach on Saturdays) >> >>john >> >>At 06:15 PM 3/7/2003 -0500, Robert Chase wrote: >>>Whell It would make your car an easy choice for my purchacing needs. >>>I would see the speakers in the back window and waste no more of your time. >>> >>>Don't do it John. I run screaming for non factory stereo installs let >>>alone someone putting speaker grilles on top of the package shelf. >>> >>>R. >>> >>> >>>On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 11:15 PM, john wrote: >>> >>>>ok, I've got the flameproof suit on... here's my thought... >>>> >>>>the 190D has a nice stereo in it, but the speakers are pretty >>>>humble. I have a set of surface mount Pioneer 3-ways that I've >>>>had in a few jeeps... I'm thinking of putting >>>>them on the rear shelf... >>>> >>>>thoughts? >>>> >>>>I guess the other option is to run down to Centralia (over 100 miles >>>>south through traffic that would frustrate an LA driver) >>>>and get my new MB Quartz that are about the size of the ones >>>>in the shelf and use the surface mounts in my J10 since I'm >>>>extending the cab... hmmm... might work ok... the pioneers are >>>>pretty decent for either app. I'm not worried about theft, >>>>unless of course I have to work in Seattle... ;) >>>> >>>>Just how stupid would they look sitting on that rear shelf? >>>>Serious... >>>> >>>>john >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #916 *********************************