From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #922 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, March 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 922 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Fuel prices RE: Mileage of 190D RE: Mileage of 190D 1986 300SDL Re: Mileage of 190D Re: Mileage of 190D Re: Mileage of 190D Re: Mileage of 190D RE: Mileage of 190D RE: Mileage of 190D RE: Mileage of 190D RE: Mileage of 190D Re: 190D cracked heads/SDL cracked heads RE: Mileage of 190D Re: 190D cracked heads/SDL cracked heads Past 190 woes and Lock attack Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:38:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Fuel prices Robert Chase wrote: > > > I would not suggest putting Jet A in your car unless you have a diesel. > Since its Kerosene. > *** And don't put avgas in a car with a catalytic converter! I bet one tank, and you'd be shopping for a new cat. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:49:47 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D I hate you! J/k ;) I only get 26-27 in the 300 SD. Got to find me a 190 diesel. I am going to look at a VW diesel truck - should get around 45-50. A guy a went to Tech school with claimed 55 mpg. Waylon -----Original Message----- From: DerickAA [mailto:k7dxx-at-hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 2:24 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D My running 190d's (1985's) the auto tranny is getting between 36-38 MPG the 5-speed is getting 38-40 mpg. I have no data on my 84 as it is still being restored. Derick - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: Mileage of 190D > John, > > You may have already mentioned this in a previous post....sorry if you have...I can't always keep up with all the messages! > > What kind of mileage are you getting with the 190D? > > R, > Scott > -- > Scott Haaland > > 96 6.5L TurboDiesel Chevy Suburban K1500 > 80 300 SD - The Silver Hornet > 87 Acura Legend > 83 VW Vanagon > 69 Chevy 3/4 Ton Pickup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:57:45 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D At 02:49 PM 3/11/2003 -0600, Black, Waylon wrote: >I only get 26-27 in the 300 SD. Got to find me a 190 diesel. I am going to >look at a VW diesel truck - should get around 45-50. A guy a went to Tech >school with claimed 55 mpg. >Waylon Maybe I should put the alarm system back in the 190D... ;) I've had several Rabbit Diesels... 40 to 55 mpg... better then the Benz as far as economy and simplicity... but not as nice... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:58:47 -0500 (EST) From: Jack Etsweiler Subject: 1986 300SDL Here's something for anyone in the Chicago/West Michigan area: MERCEDES 1986 300 SDL Turbo, diesel. Brand new Die Hard, mint condition, navy with tan leather, 130,000 mi. $6500. (616)443-0954 ===================================================== Jack Etsweiler - Microcomputer Support Specialist University Library - G01q Bruce T. Halle Library Eastern Michigan University - Ypsilanti, MI 48197 (734) 487-0020 x2033 jack-at-emunix.emich.edu ===================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:06:01 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 12:23:57PM -0800, DerickAA wrote: > My running 190d's (1985's) the auto tranny is getting between 36-38 MPG the > 5-speed is getting 38-40 mpg. > I have no data on my 84 as it is still being restored. Interesting. Aside from the key malady, what other issues are there with the smaller ones? I was on the lookout for an old 300SD, but the mileage difference between the two is pretty staggering. Are those 190s turbos, or normally aspirated? Thanks. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:13:11 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D At 02:06 PM 3/11/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >Interesting. Aside from the key malady, what other issues are there with >the smaller ones? >I was on the lookout for an old 300SD, but the mileage difference between the >two is pretty staggering. Are those 190s turbos, or normally aspirated? >Thanks. >K the 2.2 is naturally aspirated... while the later models had a 2.5L Turbo Diesel... :) price difference is significant too... early 190D's supposedly had head issues... the list expert (derrick) seems to think it's a non-issue... :) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:30:16 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D > At 02:06 PM 3/11/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > >Interesting. Aside from the key malady, what other issues are there with > >the smaller ones? > >I was on the lookout for an old 300SD, but the mileage difference between the > >two is pretty staggering. Are those 190s turbos, or normally aspirated? > >Thanks. > >K > > the 2.2 is naturally aspirated... while the later models had > a 2.5L Turbo Diesel... :) price difference is significant too... > > early 190D's supposedly had head issues... the list expert (derrick) > seems to think it's a non-issue... :) > > later, > john > According to http://home.hiwaay.net/~gbf/mbmodels.html (which admittedly is not perfect), the 2.2 was only available in the US in non-turbo. the 2.5 was available in both turbo and non in various years. I'm thinking if you can find a 2.5 turbo with a manual transmission... Alec ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:40:15 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D I just took possession of my '87 2.5 Turbo It be fassst.....don't know the fuel mileage, though. Like John, my tank runneth well above empty. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:59:30 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D So how do you identify the diesel models - I thought there were additional slots in the front fenders. I'll try any MB 190 diesel. I see them all time. Do I look for a 2.2/2.5 on the decklid or ? I wonder if the mpg is from a taller ring gear and/or OD. Does the auto trans have OD. I bet a 300 SD would get better mpg if it had a taller gear(and/or OD) than the 3.07. Probably set up that way for the national 55 mph limit(max torque -at- 2600 rpm = max efficiency - thats about 55 mph). Waylon -----Original Message----- From: Michael Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:40 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D I just took possession of my '87 2.5 Turbo It be fassst.....don't know the fuel mileage, though. Like John, my tank runneth well above empty. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:12:00 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D my mileage dropped radially on my '84 Ford Ranger Diesel... it was less at 65-70mph then in town... wound it up pretty tight... ;) john At 04:59 PM 3/11/2003 -0600, Black, Waylon wrote: >So how do you identify the diesel models - I thought there were additional >slots in the front fenders. I'll try any MB 190 diesel. I see them all time. >Do I look for a 2.2/2.5 on the decklid or ? I wonder if the mpg is from a >taller ring gear and/or OD. Does the auto trans have OD. I bet a 300 SD >would get better mpg if it had a taller gear(and/or OD) than the 3.07. >Probably set up that way for the national 55 mph limit(max torque -at- 2600 rpm >= max efficiency - thats about 55 mph). > > >Waylon > > > -----Original Message----- >From: Michael Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:40 PM >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D > >I just took possession of my '87 2.5 Turbo It be fassst.....don't know the >fuel mileage, though. Like John, my tank runneth well above empty. > >Mike Frank - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:31:00 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D At 05:59 PM 3/11/03, you wrote: >So how do you identify the diesel models - I thought there were additional >slots in the front fenders. That's correct, there are slots in the front fenders of the turbo models....shades of Harley Earl, or Hardly Oil > I'll try any MB 190 diesel. I see them all time. >Do I look for a 2.2/2.5 on the decklid or ? Says 190D on one side, Turbo on the other. >I wonder if the mpg is from a >taller ring gear and/or OD. Does the auto trans have OD. Fours speed auto, same as the 123 series. >I bet a 300 SD >would get better mpg if it had a taller gear(and/or OD) than the 3.07. I bet that a 300SD wouldn't move at all with anything higher than 3.07. If I had one of these, I'd be tempted to go to 3.54 or thereabouts, to make it a little quicker off the line. The 190DT weighs in at 2900lbs...that's the whole secret...make the car lighter, it's faster and more fuel efficient. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:44:13 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D A non-turbo will have 2.2 & 2.5 on the right side of the decklid? I think that the later 126 300 SDs came with a 2.86 gear. I know that there is a 2.60 gear in a 126 chassis but for a gas model. I don't think acceleration would suffer much with the converter and additional low gear. 3500 rpms -at- 75 mph sucks the fuel. 2600 mph -at- 55 mph will get you shot, ran of the road, or rear - ended around Dallas. Waylon -----Original Message----- From: Michael Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:31 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D At 05:59 PM 3/11/03, you wrote: >So how do you identify the diesel models - I thought there were additional >slots in the front fenders. That's correct, there are slots in the front fenders of the turbo models....shades of Harley Earl, or Hardly Oil > I'll try any MB 190 diesel. I see them all time. >Do I look for a 2.2/2.5 on the decklid or ? Says 190D on one side, Turbo on the other. >I wonder if the mpg is from a >taller ring gear and/or OD. Does the auto trans have OD. Fours speed auto, same as the 123 series. >I bet a 300 SD >would get better mpg if it had a taller gear(and/or OD) than the 3.07. I bet that a 300SD wouldn't move at all with anything higher than 3.07. If I had one of these, I'd be tempted to go to 3.54 or thereabouts, to make it a little quicker off the line. The 190DT weighs in at 2900lbs...that's the whole secret...make the car lighter, it's faster and more fuel efficient. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:53:13 -0500 From: "Eurowerks" Subject: Re: 190D cracked heads/SDL cracked heads Supposedly? I have replaced more than 20 of these in the past five years! I know that they had cylinder head problems, just like the 300 SDL's. I only know of a couple of SDL's that do not have or have not had cracked heads. Kirk A. Gilchrist EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Kevin Pekarek" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D > At 02:06 PM 3/11/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > >Interesting. Aside from the key malady, what other issues are there with > >the smaller ones? > >I was on the lookout for an old 300SD, but the mileage difference between the > >two is pretty staggering. Are those 190s turbos, or normally aspirated? > >Thanks. > >K > > the 2.2 is naturally aspirated... while the later models had > a 2.5L Turbo Diesel... :) price difference is significant too... > > early 190D's supposedly had head issues... the list expert (derrick) > seems to think it's a non-issue... :) > > later, > john > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:27:26 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D > So how do you identify the diesel models - I thought there were additional > slots in the front fenders. I'll try any MB 190 diesel. I see > them all time. Easy. You identify the diesels by the D on the trunk lid, as in 190D instead of 190E for gas models. Then for all US models of the W201, whether gas or diesel, the motor size in liters is on the right side of the trunk lid, e.g., 190E 2.3 (gas), 190D 2.2, 190D 2.5. On the W201, I'm not sure how to distinguish the turbodiesel 2.5. I thought the "gills" on the front right fender were only used on the larger W124 sedan, aka, 300D 2.5. And the majority of the fuel economy is from putting a small diesel in a relatively light car. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:28:03 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 190D cracked heads/SDL cracked heads At 07:53 PM 3/11/2003 -0500, Eurowerks wrote: >Supposedly? I have replaced more than 20 of these in the past five years! >I know that they had cylinder head problems, just like the 300 SDL's. I >only know of a couple of SDL's that do not have or have not had cracked >heads. so when does the head problem occur? what are the signs? what can we do to prevent problems? wanna buy a nice clean 190D? ;) just kidding... I'm not worried, if it fails I'll swap in something else... have torch, duct tape and JB weld, anything is possible... ;) john >Kirk A. Gilchrist >EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair >8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 >eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: "Kevin Pekarek" ; >Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:13 PM >Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D > > > > At 02:06 PM 3/11/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > > >Interesting. Aside from the key malady, what other issues are there with > > >the smaller ones? > > >I was on the lookout for an old 300SD, but the mileage difference between >the > > >two is pretty staggering. Are those 190s turbos, or normally aspirated? > > >Thanks. > > >K > > > > the 2.2 is naturally aspirated... while the later models had > > a 2.5L Turbo Diesel... :) price difference is significant too... > > > > early 190D's supposedly had head issues... the list expert (derrick) > > seems to think it's a non-issue... :) > > > > later, > > john > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:08:54 -0800 From: "Derickam AA" Subject: Past 190 woes and Lock attack Hey fellow listers, I have not had any head problems on my 190's as of this date. In my opinion, the aluminum timing chain cover is the achilles heal of the beast. If you have any timing chain slap at all you are going to bust the lower casted support, that will punch a hole in the cover giving you a shower of oil in your engine compartment. Also, if your belt tensioner has excess slop the vibrations will fatigue the aluminum. Then the tensioner separates from the cover taking a chunk out of it (this happened to a coworker of mine). This part should have been made out of cast iron or something more robust. I have made preventive parts replacements and take annual measurements. New timing chain guides, timing chain and tensioner as soon as I get another in the fleet and I check timing chain stretch every year when I change the brake fluid and coolant. If I am over 4 degree's the timing chain gets replaced (and timing adjusted), I believe the spec allows 5. Well, I started the attack on "Tuti's" steering lock. I could not get the blasted key to turn one more time. Thanks to the wealth of information on several message boards. I planned and executed the attack. It went really quick I had the steering column out and the offending part removed in about an hour. I need to get more parts else it would be finished. Details and pictures to follow when I get time on my web site. YES A SAWZALL was used to remove the offending device from the steering column. I have been happy with my 190d's they have names because they have personalities. :) Every once in a while they throw a fit and need attention. I hope John does not sell his car because I do not want to be forced to buy it..... ;) TTFN (Toot Toot for now) Derick Amburgey Automated Control Specialist Port Of Seattle/SeaTac Airport/Satellite Train System Amateur Radio Callsign: K7DXX List "Mom" of Diesel-Benz reflector 1985 Mercedes 190D "Tuti" 280,000 Mi 1985 Mercedes 190D "Red" 175,000 Mi 1984 Mercedes 190D "Charity" 160,000 Mi _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:57:28 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack At 11:08 PM 3/11/2003 -0800, Derickam AA wrote: >I hope John does not sell his car because I do not want to be forced to >buy it..... ;) well, it's good to know I won't have to advertise if I should decide to bail... ;) BTW, called benz friends, no seat or instrument cluster... still dealing with a couple gauges not working right and a driver's seat that lists to port... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #922 *********************************