From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #923 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, March 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 923 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: Mileage of 190D RE: Alternator woes continued temp sensor update Blower woes Re: Blower woes Re: Blower woes Looking for 300 TD wagon in Seattle Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack Re: Looking for 300 TD wagon in Seattle Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack Re: Alternator woes continued Re: Blower woes Re: Blower woes Re: temp sensor update Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Mar 2003 05:25:47 -0500 From: "Gary, Orlando" Subject: RE: Mileage of 190D Easy! <=1985 2.2 >1986 2.5 Slots in fender just behind the turn flasher => Turbo They should have; 2.2, or 2.5, or 2.5Turbo on the rear deck lid respectively. My understanding, only the '87 had the turbo option. - -Gary, Orlando 1986 MB 190D 2.5 On Tue, 2003-03-11 at 17:59, Black, Waylon wrote: > So how do you identify the diesel models - I thought there were additional > slots in the front fenders. I'll try any MB 190 diesel. I see them all time. > Do I look for a 2.2/2.5 on the decklid or ? I wonder if the mpg is from a > taller ring gear and/or OD. Does the auto trans have OD. I bet a 300 SD > would get better mpg if it had a taller gear(and/or OD) than the 3.07. > Probably set up that way for the national 55 mph limit(max torque -at- 2600 rpm > = max efficiency - thats about 55 mph). > > > Waylon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Frank [mailto:mfrank-at-westnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:40 PM > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: Mileage of 190D > > I just took possession of my '87 2.5 Turbo It be fassst.....don't know the > fuel mileage, though. Like John, my tank runneth well above empty. > > Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:28:01 -0500 From: "Aimino, Michael" Subject: RE: Alternator woes continued Hi Jon. Thanks for the tips. I had the alternator rechecked last night - it's fine. I pulled the battery today and will have it checked. If that's not it, I'll start with the grounds, light switch, et al. Thanks!!! - -----Original Message----- From: Jon Filina [mailto:jfilina-at-surfbest.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:14 PM To: Aimino, Michael Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued Mike, looking for his shotgun, wrote: >I had the alternator rebuilt for my 300SD. I put it in and I'm showing 12 >volts at the battery - should be 14.6v. Everything is hooked up, but no >juice. > >The rebuild man assures me it was working when it left his shop. Assuming that >the alternator is OK, what could the problem be? The rebuild man says to check >at the plug for voltage when it's off, and at a different spot on the plug for >voltage when the key is turned on. Any idea what to do if one of those >conditions aren't met, i.e., no voltage at the plug? Is there a fuse somewhere >in the circuit. > This is starting to sound awfully familiar... I went through the electrical gremlin maze with my '81 240D a few years ago. The problem started with the battery light coming on while driving. Replacing the alternator fixed that for about a month. Then, periodically, all the idiot lights would illuminate and various circuits would go dead-marker lights sometimes, other times windshield wipers, other times no heater/blower fan. Here's what we did: 1. Clean all grounds. The ones I did were the battery, main strap from the transmission to the frame, one located by the passenger side headlight and two in the trunk. 2. Replaced the battery. There was a dead cell. It held a charge, but not for long. 3. Replaced the ignition lock. The lock portion was on it's last legs. The electrical looked to be ok, but was replaced anyway. All of the above would return the car to working order for about 200 miles. Then the problem returned. What fixed it? My mechanic pulled the headlight switch. The power for the W123's, and probably most of the older MB's, goes through the light switch. I never had problems with the headlights, so we never suspected it. He removed the red hot lines, cleaned them, applied some dielectric grease and tightened them down. The were slightly loose when he first pulled the switch. The problem went away. Do you have any of the symptoms I describe? All of the above are cheap to do yourself. The battery was around $100. The one in my 240D was the wrong size, which didn't help. The ignition lock was expensive, and probably wasn't part of the problem. Check your battery and main grounds. Pull 'em, clean 'em and cinch 'em down. Take the battery in an do a load test. It should be a type 49, I think (It fills up the battery tray). If it's marginal, replace it. For grins, you could check the light switch. I don't remember seeing any fuses that would contribute to the problem, but I did replace all of them during that period, also. On the plus side, you are driving a diesel. You don't need no stinking charging system. I work nights. During my 3 month ordeal, the battery was on the charger almost nightly. That's my 2 cents... Jon '84 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:38:12 -0800 From: jack tavares Subject: temp sensor update Some may remember that I posted that the heat in my girlfriends 300d wasn't working properly. it would blow hot air no matter what position the temp dial was in. Additionally, her horn stopped working. So saturday came along and I took it for a test drive to warm it up and test the heat. Well, somebody cut me off and I got to use the horn and that worked fine. hmmm. then the heat test: it worked perfectly. hot when set to hot, cold when set to cold. So I came home and declared it fix. so until it breaks and stays broke i;m gonna leave it alone. thanks - -- jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:46:12 -0600 From: "Robert L. Bell Jr." Subject: Blower woes I just bought a 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD that I am going to restore. The climate control system works but the blower does not seem to come on, has anyone else had this problem? Where is the blower motor located? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:50:00 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Blower woes Hmmm, Mine sounds like its coming from the passengers side footwell... I have a bearing on its way out and get a nice whine from time to time when my blower is blowing.... My SD is a 1982.... I love mine... Great car.. R. On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 10:46 AM, Robert L. Bell Jr. wrote: > I just bought a 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD that I am going to restore. > The > climate control system works but the blower does not seem to come on, > has > anyone else had this problem? Where is the blower motor located? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: Blower woes yep, the blower for both the 123 and 126 are under the passenger side dash... pretty easy... john On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Robert Chase wrote: >-->Hmmm, >--> >-->Mine sounds like its coming from the passengers side footwell... I have >-->a bearing on its way out and get a nice whine from time to time when my >-->blower is blowing.... >--> >-->My SD is a 1982.... I love mine... Great car.. >--> >-->R. >--> >-->On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 10:46 AM, Robert L. Bell Jr. wrote: >--> >-->> I just bought a 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD that I am going to restore. >-->> The >-->> climate control system works but the blower does not seem to come on, >-->> has >-->> anyone else had this problem? Where is the blower motor located? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:23:15 -0800 From: Kit Redwine Subject: Looking for 300 TD wagon in Seattle Hi, I recently joined the list b/c I'm looking for an early/mid '80s 300 series wagon. Besides the usual sources of the local paper, ebay, and AutoTrader can anyone recommend local specialists who might have cars for sale or who can point me in the right direction? Also, are there any owner websites with buying and maintenance tips? Thanks! Kit Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:31:15 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack Sure your floorboards aren't going!?!?! ;) My 240D is still sitting in the drive covered with snow waiting for decision on new floorboards. :( Jim/ > still dealing with a couple gauges not working right and a driver's > seat that lists to port... ;) > > john > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:07:01 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Sure your floorboards aren't going!?!?! ;) My 240D is still >-->sitting in the drive covered with snow waiting for decision on new >-->floorboards. :( why would they be going? this car has lived in Washington State it's entire life... there is not a single spot of rust on this car... I couldn't move back east again... not after living in this paradise... sure, sun is overrated... :) later, john >--> >-->Jim/ >--> >--> >-->> still dealing with a couple gauges not working right and a driver's >-->> seat that lists to port... ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >-->> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >-->> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> >-->-- >-->Jim Hoffman >-->Oconomowoc WI >-->'39 Allis Model B >-->'53 Ford Golden Jubilee >-->'?? Bolens Huskie Gardener >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:23:29 -0800 (PST) From: hue wong Subject: Re: Looking for 300 TD wagon in Seattle Maharaja Motors up on lake city way (and 148th). They deal in older benzs. Also aurora classic coach on auruoa av deals in used benzes, a bit more newer models though...! Anyone know where a good 190d or 240d is for sale in Seattle? One of those two will be my next since the 280sel takes about 10 bucks in gas a day!!!!! Zoiks! - --- Kit Redwine wrote: > Hi, > > I recently joined the list b/c I'm looking for an > early/mid '80s 300 series > wagon. Besides the usual sources of the local > paper, ebay, and AutoTrader > can anyone recommend local specialists who might > have cars for sale or who > can point me in the right direction? > > Also, are there any owner websites with buying and > maintenance tips? > > > Thanks! > > Kit > Seattle Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:19:13 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Past 190 woes and Lock attack On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 11:08:54PM -0800, Derickam AA wrote: > I have not had any head problems on my 190's as of this date. In my > opinion, the aluminum timing chain cover is the achilles heal of the beast. > If you have any timing chain slap at all you are going to bust the lower > casted support, that will punch a hole in the cover giving you a shower of > oil in your engine compartment. Also, if your belt tensioner has excess > slop the vibrations will fatigue the aluminum. Then the tensioner > separates from the cover taking a chunk out of it (this happened to a > coworker of mine). This part should have been made out of cast iron or > something more robust. I have made preventive parts replacements and take > annual measurements. New timing chain guides, timing chain and tensioner as > soon as I get another in the fleet and I check timing chain stretch every > year when I change the brake fluid and coolant. If I am over 4 degree's the > timing chain gets replaced (and timing adjusted), I believe the spec allows > 5. Interesting. Does that problem also exist for 240s? Most of the 240s I've seen around here over the years lost an engine due to timing chain failure, but I never seem to hear of anyone killing a five banger that way. Is this because virtually ALL of the 240s I've heard of around here were manual trannies (and someone just ran the RPMs too high, which will toss a chain on an american gas motor), or is there something inherent to the design I should be aware of? How difficult is it to check the timing chain to make sure it is within spec? Is this something that does not require major surgery? Is replacement overly difficult? K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:56:23 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued Mike wrote: >Hi Jon. Thanks for the tips. I had the alternator rechecked last night - it's fine. I pulled the battery today and will have it checked. If that's not it, I'll start with the grounds, light switch, et al. Thanks!!! > I am the only one I know of who ever had the problem I had with the 240D that was caused primarily by the light switch. My mechanic hadn't seen the problem in years and asked me to leave the car with him. He stayed up most of the night trying to figure it out. He finally went to bed around 0400 (he's usually in the sack around 10...) and, about an hour later, woke up with the solution. I'd bet your battery may be the other part of the problem. You didn't mention if you had intermittant idiot lights turning on so I am guessing you haven't. The MB's are real touchy when it comes to the battery. A seemingly good one that actually has a dead cell or two can cause electrical problems. If you haven't taken the battery in for a load test, you might try to swap it with another good one, even if it isn't the right size, and see if you show a charge. If not, have the battery tested and go from there. If it turns out to be the light switch, you'll occupy the number two position of those I know who've had that problem.... Good luck, our small world is awaiting the outcome. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:08:12 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Blower woes Robert wrote: >I just bought a 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD that I am going to restore. The >climate control system works but the blower does not seem to come on, has >anyone else had this problem? Where is the blower motor located? > As you read, the blower is under the dash on the passenger's side. You'll have to remove a few panels to get to it. Will the blower motor come to life when you press the defrost button? It should, almost immediately, jump to high speed and blow hot air, provided the engine is warmed up. If so, the motor is probably ok. I hate two things about my '84 300SD - the automatic transmission and the climate control. I'm getting used to the transmission, but don't think I'll ever like the climate control. If I could manually set the fan speed, I could live with it. If the defroster works, you are dealing more with the push button unit or the temperature sensor. John can give you more insight on the system than I can. I am having problems with my climate control and will dive into it in the next month or so. Jon '84 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:20:24 -0600 From: "Robert L. Bell Jr." Subject: Re: Blower woes No the blower doesn't come to life when you press the defrost but you can feel air coming through. It is almost as if the blower is on it's lowest setting... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Filina" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:08 PM Subject: Re: Blower woes > Robert wrote: > > >I just bought a 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD that I am going to restore. The > >climate control system works but the blower does not seem to come on, has > >anyone else had this problem? Where is the blower motor located? > > > As you read, the blower is under the dash on the passenger's side. > You'll have to remove a few panels to get to it. > > Will the blower motor come to life when you press the defrost button? > It should, almost immediately, jump to high speed and blow hot air, > provided the engine is warmed up. If so, the motor is probably ok. > > I hate two things about my '84 300SD - the automatic transmission and > the climate control. I'm getting used to the transmission, but don't > think I'll ever like the climate control. If I could manually set the > fan speed, I could live with it. > > If the defroster works, you are dealing more with the push button unit > or the temperature sensor. John can give you more insight on the system > than I can. I am having problems with my climate control and will dive > into it in the next month or so. > > Jon > '84 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:47:09 +1000 From: Guy Carpenter Subject: Re: temp sensor update A bus book I have calls that the "stare repair". Open the engine bay, stare blankly for a while, close it up, and drive away. At 07:38 AM 12/03/2003 -0800, jack tavares wrote: >Some may remember that I posted that the heat in >my girlfriends 300d wasn't working properly. >it would blow hot air no matter what position the >temp dial was in. > >Additionally, her horn stopped working. > >So saturday came along and I took it for a test >drive to warm it up and test the heat. > >Well, somebody cut me off and I got to use the >horn and that worked fine. hmmm. > >then the heat test: it worked perfectly. >hot when set to hot, cold when set to cold. > >So I came home and declared it fix. > >so until it breaks and stays broke i;m gonna >leave it alone. > >thanks >-- >jack ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #923 *********************************