From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #924 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, March 13 2003 Volume 01 : Number 924 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Alternator woes continued RE: Alternator woes continued - I Got an answer Re: Alternator woes continued RE: Alternator woes continued - I Got an answer Re: Blower woes Re: Blower woes Re: Looking for 300 TD wagon in Seattle Re: Alternator woes continued Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:56:48 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued Hmmmm, That makes sense.. Nadia my Volvo had a shorted cell in the battery and was doing some crazy stuff.... I had all sorts of warning indicators going off and error lights but the car started up and ran fine...... Robert. On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 03:56 PM, Jon Filina wrote: > Mike wrote: > >> Hi Jon. Thanks for the tips. I had the alternator rechecked last >> night - it's fine. I pulled the battery today and will have it >> checked. If that's not it, I'll start with the grounds, light switch, >> et al. Thanks!!! >> > I am the only one I know of who ever had the problem I had with the > 240D that was caused primarily by the light switch. My mechanic hadn't > seen the problem in years and asked me to leave the car with him. He > stayed up most of the night trying to figure it out. He finally went > to bed around 0400 (he's usually in the sack around 10...) and, about > an hour later, woke up with the solution. > > I'd bet your battery may be the other part of the problem. You didn't > mention if you had intermittant idiot lights turning on so I am > guessing you haven't. The MB's are real touchy when it comes to the > battery. A seemingly good one that actually has a dead cell or two > can cause electrical problems. If you haven't taken the battery in > for a load test, you might try to swap it with another good one, even > if it isn't the right size, and see if you show a charge. If not, have > the battery tested and go from there. > > If it turns out to be the light switch, you'll occupy the number two > position of those I know who've had that problem.... > > Good luck, our small world is awaiting the outcome. > > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:36:46 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Alternator woes continued - I Got an answer All, I had a similar problem. Long story short: If we are talking about a 126 chassis 300 SD - here is what happened to me. The alternator wires run from the alternator(duh!) to a little black box on the passenger frame rail. These little wires run through a plastic sheath. This sheath tends to get very stiff in cool weather. With less than perfect motor mounts the engine rocks back and forth - this tends to open the connectors. You'll get a charge light under acceleration but charging when coasting or charging when making right turns only. It drove me crazy(short trip) until I carefully took the 3 terminals out of the connector, squeezed them back together, re-installed in the connector. Lasts about 2-3 months. Problem does not occur in warm weather when the sheath is a little more flexible. It also explains the wire retainer I have seen on some MB alternators but not on the rebuilds(to help hold the connector?) The other thing I had is a wire came off the brushes for the regulator(rebuilt - came with the autozone alternator). I had a spare and just replaced it. Waylon -----Original Message----- From: Aimino, Michael [mailto:maimino-at-freemarkets.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:28 AM To: Jon Filina Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: RE: Alternator woes continued Hi Jon. Thanks for the tips. I had the alternator rechecked last night - it's fine. I pulled the battery today and will have it checked. If that's not it, I'll start with the grounds, light switch, et al. Thanks!!! - -----Original Message----- From: Jon Filina [mailto:jfilina-at-surfbest.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:14 PM To: Aimino, Michael Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued Mike, looking for his shotgun, wrote: >I had the alternator rebuilt for my 300SD. I put it in and I'm showing 12 >volts at the battery - should be 14.6v. Everything is hooked up, but no >juice. > >The rebuild man assures me it was working when it left his shop. Assuming that >the alternator is OK, what could the problem be? The rebuild man says to check >at the plug for voltage when it's off, and at a different spot on the plug for >voltage when the key is turned on. Any idea what to do if one of those >conditions aren't met, i.e., no voltage at the plug? Is there a fuse somewhere >in the circuit. > This is starting to sound awfully familiar... I went through the electrical gremlin maze with my '81 240D a few years ago. The problem started with the battery light coming on while driving. Replacing the alternator fixed that for about a month. Then, periodically, all the idiot lights would illuminate and various circuits would go dead-marker lights sometimes, other times windshield wipers, other times no heater/blower fan. Here's what we did: 1. Clean all grounds. The ones I did were the battery, main strap from the transmission to the frame, one located by the passenger side headlight and two in the trunk. 2. Replaced the battery. There was a dead cell. It held a charge, but not for long. 3. Replaced the ignition lock. The lock portion was on it's last legs. The electrical looked to be ok, but was replaced anyway. All of the above would return the car to working order for about 200 miles. Then the problem returned. What fixed it? My mechanic pulled the headlight switch. The power for the W123's, and probably most of the older MB's, goes through the light switch. I never had problems with the headlights, so we never suspected it. He removed the red hot lines, cleaned them, applied some dielectric grease and tightened them down. The were slightly loose when he first pulled the switch. The problem went away. Do you have any of the symptoms I describe? All of the above are cheap to do yourself. The battery was around $100. The one in my 240D was the wrong size, which didn't help. The ignition lock was expensive, and probably wasn't part of the problem. Check your battery and main grounds. Pull 'em, clean 'em and cinch 'em down. Take the battery in an do a load test. It should be a type 49, I think (It fills up the battery tray). If it's marginal, replace it. For grins, you could check the light switch. I don't remember seeing any fuses that would contribute to the problem, but I did replace all of them during that period, also. On the plus side, you are driving a diesel. You don't need no stinking charging system. I work nights. During my 3 month ordeal, the battery was on the charger almost nightly. That's my 2 cents... Jon '84 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:36:09 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued Well, for now the battery is the primary suspect. I had it tested and it failed miserably. Amazing. It was working fine last week, even during the way sub freezing temps we've had here (western PA) of late. I'll put the battery in tomorrow and see how it goes. That makes 3 alternators and 4 batteries I've replaced (out of 5 cars) in the last 30 days. My wife is beginning to wonder about me... On 12 Mar 03, at 17:56, Robert Chase wrote: > Hmmmm, > > That makes sense.. Nadia my Volvo had a shorted cell in the battery > and was doing some crazy stuff.... I had all sorts of warning > indicators going off and error lights but the car started up and ran > fine...... > > Robert. > > > On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 03:56 PM, Jon Filina wrote: > > > Mike wrote: > > > >> Hi Jon. Thanks for the tips. I had the alternator rechecked last > >> night - it's fine. I pulled the battery today and will have it > >> checked. If that's not it, I'll start with the grounds, light > >> switch, et al. Thanks!!! > >> > > I am the only one I know of who ever had the problem I had with the > > 240D that was caused primarily by the light switch. My mechanic > > hadn't seen the problem in years and asked me to leave the car with > > him. He stayed up most of the night trying to figure it out. He > > finally went to bed around 0400 (he's usually in the sack around > > 10...) and, about an hour later, woke up with the solution. > > > > I'd bet your battery may be the other part of the problem. You > > didn't mention if you had intermittant idiot lights turning on so I > > am guessing you haven't. The MB's are real touchy when it comes to > > the battery. A seemingly good one that actually has a dead cell or > > two can cause electrical problems. If you haven't taken the > > battery in for a load test, you might try to swap it with another > > good one, even if it isn't the right size, and see if you show a > > charge. If not, have the battery tested and go from there. > > > > If it turns out to be the light switch, you'll occupy the number two > > position of those I know who've had that problem.... > > > > Good luck, our small world is awaiting the outcome. > > > > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:39:26 -0500 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: RE: Alternator woes continued - I Got an answer Hi. Thanks for the tip. I just went down and checked those wires out, and thankfully they were fine. I saw that box there while wrestling with the alternator and never made the connection (da dum da). :) A friend of mine suggested I check the "fusible links." I never heard of 'em. Do the older Benzes use fusible links? On 12 Mar 03, at 17:36, Black, Waylon wrote: > All, > > I had a similar problem. Long story short: > > If we are talking about a 126 chassis 300 SD - here is what happened > to me. > > The alternator wires run from the alternator(duh!) to a little black > box on the passenger frame rail. These little wires run through a > plastic sheath. This sheath tends to get very stiff in cool weather. > With less than perfect motor mounts the engine rocks back and forth - > this tends to open the connectors. You'll get a charge light under > acceleration but charging when coasting or charging when making right > turns only. It drove me crazy(short trip) until I carefully took the 3 > terminals out of the connector, squeezed them back together, > re-installed in the connector. Lasts about 2-3 months. Problem does > not occur in warm weather when the sheath is a little more flexible. > It also explains the wire retainer I have seen on some MB alternators > but not on the rebuilds(to help hold the connector?) > > The other thing I had is a wire came off the brushes for the > regulator(rebuilt - came with the autozone alternator). I had a spare > and just replaced it. > > > Waylon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aimino, Michael [mailto:maimino-at-freemarkets.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:28 AM > To: Jon Filina > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: Alternator woes continued > > Hi Jon. Thanks for the tips. I had the alternator rechecked last night > - it's fine. I pulled the battery today and will have it checked. If > that's not it, I'll start with the grounds, light switch, et al. > Thanks!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Filina [mailto:jfilina-at-surfbest.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 4:14 PM > To: Aimino, Michael > Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued > > > Mike, looking for his shotgun, wrote: > > >I had the alternator rebuilt for my 300SD. I put it in and I'm > >showing 12 volts at the battery - should be 14.6v. Everything is > >hooked up, but no juice. > > > >The rebuild man assures me it was working when it left his shop. > >Assuming > that > >the alternator is OK, what could the problem be? The rebuild man says > >to > check > >at the plug for voltage when it's off, and at a different spot on the > >plug > for > >voltage when the key is turned on. Any idea what to do if one of > >those conditions aren't met, i.e., no voltage at the plug? Is there a > >fuse > somewhere > >in the circuit. > > > > This is starting to sound awfully familiar... > > I went through the electrical gremlin maze with my '81 240D a few > years ago. The problem started with the battery light coming on > while driving. Replacing the alternator fixed that for about a month. > Then, periodically, all the idiot lights would illuminate and various > circuits would go dead-marker lights sometimes, other times windshield > wipers, other times no heater/blower fan. > > Here's what we did: > > 1. Clean all grounds. The ones I did were the battery, main strap > from the transmission to the frame, one located by the passenger side > headlight and two in the trunk. > > 2. Replaced the battery. There was a dead cell. It held a charge, > but not for long. > > 3. Replaced the ignition lock. The lock portion was on it's last > legs. > The electrical looked to be ok, but was replaced anyway. > > All of the above would return the car to working order for about 200 > miles. Then the problem returned. > > What fixed it? My mechanic pulled the headlight switch. The power > for the W123's, and probably most of the older MB's, goes through the > light switch. I never had problems with the headlights, so we never > suspected it. He removed the red hot lines, cleaned them, applied > some dielectric grease and tightened them down. The were slightly > loose when he first pulled the switch. The problem went away. > > Do you have any of the symptoms I describe? All of the above are > cheap to do yourself. The battery was around $100. The one in my > 240D was the wrong size, which didn't help. The ignition lock was > expensive, and probably wasn't part of the problem. > > Check your battery and main grounds. Pull 'em, clean 'em and cinch > 'em down. Take the battery in an do a load test. It should be a type > 49, I think (It fills up the battery tray). If it's marginal, replace > it. > For grins, you could check the light switch. > > I don't remember seeing any fuses that would contribute to the > problem, but I did replace all of them during that period, also. > > On the plus side, you are driving a diesel. You don't need no > stinking charging system. I work nights. During my 3 month ordeal, > the battery was on the charger almost nightly. > > That's my 2 cents... > > Jon > '84 300SD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:29:20 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: Blower woes hey, I just realized that my 190D has a fan control!!!! coolness, also found out that the center vents blow cold when the heat is on! It may not be correct, but I like it... :) wife always has the heat cranked up... ;) just got back from Centralia (about 100 miles south of here) to get the fenders off my J10 to have copies made... had to bring the '99 WJ, the fenders wouldn't fit in the benz... ;) john On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jon Filina wrote: >-->Robert wrote: >--> >-->>I just bought a 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD that I am going to restore. The >-->>climate control system works but the blower does not seem to come on, has >-->>anyone else had this problem? Where is the blower motor located? >-->> >-->As you read, the blower is under the dash on the passenger's side. >--> You'll have to remove a few panels to get to it. >--> >-->Will the blower motor come to life when you press the defrost button? >--> It should, almost immediately, jump to high speed and blow hot air, >-->provided the engine is warmed up. If so, the motor is probably ok. >--> >-->I hate two things about my '84 300SD - the automatic transmission and >-->the climate control. I'm getting used to the transmission, but don't >-->think I'll ever like the climate control. If I could manually set the >-->fan speed, I could live with it. >--> >-->If the defroster works, you are dealing more with the push button unit >-->or the temperature sensor. John can give you more insight on the system >-->than I can. I am having problems with my climate control and will dive >-->into it in the next month or so. >--> >-->Jon >-->'84 300SD >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:57:36 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: Blower woes On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Derickam AA wrote: >-->The center vent blows cold, this is normal. >-->It is nice to have a manual mix instead of automatic sometimes. yes! it's also good to know that it's normal! :) >-->Put my order in for the steering column lock today maybe have it on my next >-->day off. drove down to centralia today to get the fenders from my J10 stepside, heading up to BC on Friday to get fiberglass molds made for them... won't fit in the benz so we're taking the '99 WJ. john >--> ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:20:19 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Looking for 300 TD wagon in Seattle there was one for sale down in West Seattle... it was a few weeks back though... I thought the guys was asking too much for it... If they weren't so ugly it'd make a great rig... I had to take the '99 Grand Cherokee down to Centralia to pick up my Jeep Fenders, they wouldn't fit in my '85 190D. ;) john On 3/12/03 9:23 AM, "Kit Redwine" wrote: > Hi, > > I recently joined the list b/c I'm looking for an early/mid '80s 300 series > wagon. Besides the usual sources of the local paper, ebay, and AutoTrader > can anyone recommend local specialists who might have cars for sale or who > can point me in the right direction? > > Also, are there any owner websites with buying and maintenance tips? > > > Thanks! > > Kit > Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 02:25:03 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Alternator woes continued Mike reported: >Well, for now the battery is the primary suspect. I had it tested and >it failed miserably. Amazing. It was working fine last week, even >during the way sub freezing temps we've had here (western PA) of >late. I'll put the battery in tomorrow and see how it goes. > I'm bettin' you've found the final piece of the puzzle. My track record with bets is not the best, though... If you are a Pittsburgh area type of guy, and root for the Steelers, you're not done yet. If you are closer to Erie, and root for the Browns, you should be home free! If you're a Bills fan, you need to buy a Ford.... ;-P In case you haven't guessed, I was born and raised in Cleveland (Berea, to be exact). If you are, or want to be, a part of the Dog Pound, you've GOT to be an optimist... ;-) >That makes 3 alternators and 4 batteries I've replaced (out of 5 >cars) in the last 30 days. My wife is beginning to wonder about me... > > My wife thinks I'm crazy for driving diesels. "They're noisey and smelly and slow and...." To which I answer "don't be so hard on yourself." The bruises go away after a while.... ;-O Here's hoping your battery fixes everything. Jon '84 300SD ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #924 *********************************