From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #936 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 21 2003 Volume 01 : Number 936 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 190D Re: 190D 240 trannys Re: 190D Wecking yards RE: Ludwig lives! Re: 300SD Re: 300SD Re: Ludwig lives! RE: Ludwig lives! Re: Ludwig lives! Re: 190D RE: Ludwig lives! pressure washing... Re: 190D Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:22:31 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: 190D On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 12:09:12PM -0800, john wrote: > >Define zippy. > > well, if a crazed bicyclist were to challenge me I'm sure we'd win... > rofl... Had I known that a few years ago, I'd take that challenge. Unfortunate for me I haven't ridden in so long that I don't have quite the speed I used to - I could keep up with traffic on stretches of Hwy 1. :) > the off the line performance is better then the 300d/300sd, but it drops > off at about 20mph or so and goes flat for a bit... midrange speed is > acceptable... it'll cruise at 70mph without complaint... > > the 0 to 60 spec is 18 seconds... zippy feeling because it comes off > the line quickly... Good to know :) > >doesn't seem all that zippy to me. > > not compared to your police special ford... ;) I'd say off the line > would be comparable to your 6 cyl cherokee, until you hit about 15mph... ;) heheheheh. yeah, the crown vic moves out rather respectably, especially when you consider how big of a car it is. It's not all that powerful of a car - my 401 cherokee would beat it to 100 easily, and the 72 ambassador with the 360 in it has a little higher top speed and could also whoop the crown vic pretty respectably too... 100 in the crown vic is a lot saner than in the cherokee, and the ambassador needs some work. > it'll move around in traffic ok... The 240D/AT a friend of mine had for a while was almost scary sometimes. Was wondering how it rated against that, I guess. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:37:34 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: 190D > >I'm not expecting to win a top fuel race with one of these things, but I > >don't want something that my jeep with two spark plugs missing can outrun :) > > it'll move around in traffic ok... > > john > The slowest Benz I've lived with was a 1980 240D auto, but in my 5 Benzes (diesel and gas), I find that they tend to do a very nice job of selecting appropriately useful gearing. Then again, how souped up is your Jeep? ;-) Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:24:40 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: 240 trannys I notice in the shop manual they list a 5-speed manual tranny as an optional MBZ-Dsl transmission. Did these ever come on the 240? Will it fit in a 123/240D? It would be nice to have an overdrive, or closer ratio shifting. Paul 240D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:07:18 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: 190D On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 02:37:34PM +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > > >I'm not expecting to win a top fuel race with one of these things, but I > > >don't want something that my jeep with two spark plugs missing can outrun :) > > > > it'll move around in traffic ok... > > The slowest Benz I've lived with was a 1980 240D auto, but in my 5 Benzes > (diesel and gas), I find that they tend to do a very nice job of selecting > appropriately useful gearing. > > Then again, how souped up is your Jeep? ;-) There's actually two. The one I was referring to was an old six banger, something like john's truck was before he decided to take it apart. The other one is mostly stock also, same type of truck, but a 6.6L gas engine with 3.54 gears kinda jumps off the line with a little authority :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:35:20 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Wecking yards Does anyone have a recomendation on a wrecking yard that would have a good stock of old benzs in the San Francisco Bay Area? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:49:00 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: Ludwig lives! At 02:26 AM 3/18/2003 -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: >My mailbox was recently graced by a missive from john : > > drop a Wagoneer chassis underneath it... divorced xfr case and > > voila... the luxury of a Benz with the durability of a Jeep... plenty > > of ground clearance that way too... ;) > >Sad about the road-holding though ;-3( not necessarily... provided of course one first bolts the body to the wagoneer chassis... ;) An FSJ with good tires and good shocks handles quite well. john >Ron. >-- > Write a wise saying > and your name will live forever. > -- Anonymous > > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:50:20 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 300SD the manual for the 126 series is on CD, from the dealer for about $100 or on the web you might find a cheap copy... check ebay... :) the manual is pretty lame either way. john At 04:02 PM 3/20/2003 -0500, Bill Sinclair wrote: >Hi John, > >I'm from Richard's Alfa digest and have noticed from your postings on the >off-topic digest that you're on a Diesel Benz list as well. My cousin has >two 1980 300SD's, one with a rusty body but nice blue interior and the >other with a good body but trashed tan interior. Obviously we need to do >the old one good car from two maneuver. Can you or anyone on your list >recommend a good manual or resource that explains how to remove the >interiors from these cars? It looks pretty straightforward except for the >pillars and connecting trim that extends from the top of the back seat to >the roof. I'd prefer not to do destructive removal on the tan interior in >order to learn how it goes together if that can be avoided. Thanks for >any help that you or your fellow Benz buffs can offer. I can be emailed >at bills-at-linkelectric.com > >Bill Sinclair >Hampton, VA - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:55:03 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: 300SD Hmmmm, One might suggest making the mistakes and breaking the interior on the car with the bad interior. You will learn the "correct" way to remove the panels once you do this :) R. On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 06:50 PM, john wrote: > the manual for the 126 series is on CD, from the dealer > for about $100 or on the web you might find a cheap copy... > check ebay... :) the manual is pretty lame either way. > > john > > At 04:02 PM 3/20/2003 -0500, Bill Sinclair wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> I'm from Richard's Alfa digest and have noticed from your postings on >> the off-topic digest that you're on a Diesel Benz list as well. My >> cousin has two 1980 300SD's, one with a rusty body but nice blue >> interior and the other with a good body but trashed tan interior. >> Obviously we need to do the old one good car from two maneuver. Can >> you or anyone on your list recommend a good manual or resource that >> explains how to remove the interiors from these cars? It looks pretty >> straightforward except for the pillars and connecting trim that >> extends from the top of the back seat to the roof. I'd prefer not to >> do destructive removal on the tan interior in order to learn how it >> goes together if that can be avoided. Thanks for any help that you or >> your fellow Benz buffs can offer. I can be emailed at >> bills-at-linkelectric.com >> >> Bill Sinclair >> Hampton, VA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:04:03 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Ludwig lives! On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 03:49:00PM -0800, john wrote: > >Sad about the road-holding though ;-3( > > not necessarily... provided of course one first bolts the > body to the wagoneer chassis... ;) An FSJ with good tires > and good shocks handles quite well. um, no. the absolute crappiest handling post 1960 benz will easily outhandle the best handling fsj. fsjs have straight axles and leaf springs at all four corners. They have soft springs and high centers of gravity. when you take a benz up to 100 mph, it feels like fun. When you take a fsj up to 100 mph, you see god. when you take a benz through the twisties, it feels like fun. When you take a fsj through the twisties, you hold on for dear life to the steering wheel and wonder why you didn't drive your benz on the road instead. when you nail the brakes in a benz, you stop so hard and so fast that your dental work comes out and hits the windshield. when you hit the brakes in a fsj, you thank god you're not driving one of the older ones with manual drums at the corners, and eventually, when it is convenient for the truck to do so, you come to a stop. Then the smell of burnt oil from the factory jeep leaky rear main seal dripping oil on your exhaust y-pipe catches up with you, and reminds you that you are definately in a fsj. If you want to offroad in a benz, get a unimog or a G-glass. If you want to offroad in a jeep, get a jeep. If you want to blast down a windy road in a jeep, have your head examined. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:22:53 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: Ludwig lives! > On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 03:49:00PM -0800, john wrote: > > >Sad about the road-holding though ;-3( > > > > not necessarily... provided of course one first bolts the > > body to the wagoneer chassis... ;) An FSJ with good tires > > and good shocks handles quite well. > > um, no. the absolute crappiest handling post 1960 benz will > easily outhandle > the best handling fsj. > > K > With all due respect to John and his ability to make Jeepensteins, THANK YOU, KEVIN! Lotsa good chuckles out of that short message. Although I did wince at the mention of leaks. $260 worth of front timing cover seal work finally seems to have tamed my M103's oil appetite down to a respectable level, but she still is leaking tranny fluid on something rather warm, enough that she frequently generates enough smoke at a stop light to embarass me. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 155K, going to synthetic with her next change first MB was a 63 190c gas sedan that most likely would still outhandle an FSJ, even with that swing axle rear end ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:34:38 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Ludwig lives! rofl... Kevin, this was great... :) Obviously your FSJ doesn't have the sway bars and Michelin's... ;) Of course I'm thinking of my J10 which is lighter then a Wagoneer... and I doubt it'd get up to 100mph... we'll see after the 4.0L... ;) My '67 Wagoneer with no sway bars and drum brakes was definitely not a good handling vehicle at all... :) BTW, took Ludwig to Seattle for dinner... it made it there and back, didn't spring any more leaks and the fuel gauge appears to be moving in the right direction... :) john At 04:04 PM 3/20/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 03:49:00PM -0800, john wrote: > > >Sad about the road-holding though ;-3( > > > > not necessarily... provided of course one first bolts the > > body to the wagoneer chassis... ;) An FSJ with good tires > > and good shocks handles quite well. > >um, no. the absolute crappiest handling post 1960 benz will easily outhandle >the best handling fsj. > >fsjs have straight axles and leaf springs at all four corners. They have soft >springs and high centers of gravity. > >when you take a benz up to 100 mph, it feels like fun. When you take a fsj up >to 100 mph, you see god. > >when you take a benz through the twisties, it feels like fun. When you take a >fsj through the twisties, you hold on for dear life to the steering wheel >and wonder why you didn't drive your benz on the road instead. > >when you nail the brakes in a benz, you stop so hard and so fast that your >dental work comes out and hits the windshield. when you hit the brakes in a >fsj, you thank god you're not driving one of the older ones with manual drums >at the corners, and eventually, when it is convenient for the truck to do so, >you come to a stop. Then the smell of burnt oil from the factory jeep leaky >rear main seal dripping oil on your exhaust y-pipe catches up with you, and >reminds you that you are definately in a fsj. > >If you want to offroad in a benz, get a unimog or a G-glass. If you want to >offroad in a jeep, get a jeep. If you want to blast down a windy road in a >jeep, >have your head examined. >K - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:07:07 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: 190D On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:40:14AM -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 11:23:21AM -0800, john wrote: > > Ludwig is doing great... been zipping up and down Hwy 9 today > > chasing HP and Jeep parts... > > > > Need to fix the fuel sending unit and seat... otherwise it's a > > nice little ride... much zippier then when I test drove it... guess > > the AMSOIL air filter and new injectors gave it a new lease on life. :) > > Define zippy. I ran into one up here for sale for a good deal, little light > quarter panel damage, interior a bit used, but it's a NA 4 banger auto, which > doesn't seem all that zippy to me. So I might be going to look at this thing. I should have my head examined. She's a 190D automatic, light quarter panel damage, and looks like it's missing some trim. I've never really been interested in the 190E, so I haven't spent a lot of time looking at them. I do like the lines of them, and the size (even though I don't like small cars) is somewhat attractive. There are times that parking a crown victoria with push bumpers can be a bit of a pain. Asked the seller, and apparently the driver's seat doesn't match the rest of them (original comes with the car, has broken spring), and when I asked him if the ignition key matched the door, he said it had two separate keys, one for door, one for ignition. I'm starting to wonder, with the discussion on this list and with him telling me these things, that the ignition and seat are the weak links of the 190. (yes, I saved the message telling about the timing chain stretch and problems from timing chains launching themselves). I'd probably get the spring replaced in the original seat, then put it back into the car to have a same-colored interior. He also mentioned the tranny tended to shift a little rough. Don't know whether he means slip-shift like a few 123s I've driven did, or what. He mentioned he thought it might be motor mount related (!), I'll just have to drive it and see what I think. I don't generally like cars this small, but the w123s I've driven (even a really worn out one) all felt more solid than my 4700 lb crown victoria. That, and I don't have to worry about getting rear ended and having my trunk explode (damn fords). Since I've never actually driven a 190, gas or diesel, is there anything I should be checking for? I know to be wary of a benz that appears to be a good deal, so I'm gonna be careful with this one. From the sounds of it, it sounds like the price is down because of the quarter panel damage and the interior issues. Thanks in advance... K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:10:50 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: Ludwig lives! At 09:22 PM 3/20/2003 -0600, Alec Cordova wrote: > > > >With all due respect to John and his ability to make Jeepensteins, thank you... ;) I think... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:35:02 -0800 From: john Subject: pressure washing... amazing how much better these things look after you remove several years of the Pacific Northwest from them. :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6146&item=2407883183&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2407889897 john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:42:08 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 190D what is the price? john At 11:07 PM 3/20/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >Since I've never actually driven a 190, gas or diesel, is there anything I >should be checking for? I know to be wary of a benz that appears to be a good >deal, so I'm gonna be careful with this one. From the sounds of it, it sounds >like the price is down because of the quarter panel damage and the interior >issues. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #936 *********************************