From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #939 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 21 2003 Volume 01 : Number 939 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Willy's-ahaulic?? Re: Used cars Re: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent RE: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent Re: Used cars Re: Used cars Re: Used cars Re: Used cars Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:19:15 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Willy's-ahaulic?? arrrrghhhhhhhhh.... must resist... must resist... must resist... ;) john At 01:55 PM 3/21/2003 -0500, Jim Hoffman wrote: >Sorry John... I didn't know you were a *recovering* Willy's-ahaulic. > >I'll try to be more sensative in the future..... NOT!!! > >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com >www.willystech.com > >;) > >Jim/ > > > > I'm deleting this temptation, er, message... ;) > > > > shame on you... I was doing so well too... where's that delete key... >;) > > > > john > > > > At 01:33 PM 3/21/2003 -0500, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >If you haven't already found it... www.willystech.com. You'll find > > >any old Willys you want in the classifieds! Like you need another > > >project!! ;) > > > > > >Jim/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:43:38 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Used cars Generally, I drive my used cars until they won't move and then I donate them to a charity for the tax write-off. My last car, an Audi 4000, burst into flames while I was driving. That one got junked. One reason is I do a fair amount of my own work and in California there are liability issues when you sell a car like that. I really like this 240D I just bought. I just love that "I'm driving a tank" ride it has. This car suits me! I never buy collision insurance, but I carry liability--this saves me about $1000.00 - $2000.00 (US) a year. Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Aimino, Michael" ; Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: RE: Used cars > excellent! > > What I try to do is buy a troubled used car that no one in their > right mind would consider, make the repairs, fix the cosmetic stuff, > drive it until I'm tired of it, bored with it, find something better > or realize that I need to fix something else soon and decide to switch > projects. :) I keep track of what I "invest" and usually sell my > used cars for as much, or more then I paid for them initially. Of course > if you factor in my time I'm going backwards, but I'm only looking > at parts and repairs by others. > > I can count on one hand the vehicles I've "lost" money on in my life. > that's out of 86... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > > I think Ludwig will be one that I "loose" money on if I sell him. I'm > way over book value now in parts and purchase price. If the ignition > switch hadn't failed and I had troubleshot the injector problem more > carefully my repair costs would have been much less. Replacing all > the injectors and filters was just something I prefer to do on an > older Diesel anyway... give me a solid baseline to work from. :) > I also fixed things that could have been left unrepaired, like the > radio antenna.... it worked, it just didn't go up and down. ;) > > Used cars aren't a problem, they're a way of life. :) > > I've never owned a new vehicle. I've been very fortunate to find > a used vehicle that would have been what I would have ordered. So, > like I've said before... Someone out there is taking care of my > "new" car for me... ;) > > BTW, the 2.5L Turbo Diesel 190D does sound interesting... :) > > john > > At 10:35 AM 3/21/2003 -0500, Aimino, Michael wrote: > >Random thoughts on this, in no particular order: > > > >* New cars have problems, too. I won't buy new anymore assuming that I'm > >getting a problem-free ride. My experience has taught me otherwise. > > > >* People sell used cars for many reasons other than the car having a problem. > >I have a salesman friend who sells his car every other year because he feel he > >needs to maintain an image. His cars are low miles, low wear and would be an > >excellent buy. > > > >* I can run a report from Quicken and prove to anyone, in dollars and cents, > >that my used car cost me less, over any time period you want to measure, than > >my new cars. Factor in depreciation, interest, taxes, and you're way ahead. I > >bought a 1981 VW Rabbit diesel 4 years ago for $350. Total lifetime repairs > >were ~ $1500. I put over 50k miles on that car and sold it for $100. Show me a > >new car I can buy for $1750 (in the last 20 years) that'll go 50k miles and > >I'll buy it. > > > >Of course, I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but I get this argument all > >the time from people who love to give all their $$$ to various banks and > >S&Ls. > > > > > >_______________ > > > > > >"Every used car you buy is being sold for a reason. > >If there was nothing wrong with it, it wouldn't be for sale." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:44:28 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent Diesel used to more expensive than Regular gas, but after we "reformulated" the gasoline for clean air standards the price went up over the price of D2. But, this has more to do with the fact that we will pay it, rather than anything else. I believe that we can no longer sell new diesel cars in California, but we can import them from other states as used cars. Someone might correct me on that issue. Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Black, Waylon" To: "'Paul Schwartz'" Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: RE: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent > Wow - diesel was about the price of Super Unleaded. I bought Super for 1.70 > the other day. > > Last summer diesel was 1.18 - ahhh the good ole days. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Schwartz [mailto:pschw-at-earthlink.net] > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 12:24 PM > To: Black, Waylon > Subject: Re: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent > > Here in the "People's Republic of Kalifornia" I still see Diesel under two > bucks occasionally. But, Unleaded regular is about $2.15. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Black, Waylon" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 9:03 AM > Subject: RE: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent > > > > I always enjoy the emails that shed a little light onto MBs history. Being > a > > prior Chrysler man I NEVER considered anything else(gas or diesel). I > > 'awakened' in January 02. In addition to my Chrysler 'fleet' I have since > > added (2) 83 300 SDs, a Volvo 242 turbo, and a VW diesel trucklet. Diesels > > make more sense to me(in Texas). Emission exempt(inspection is $12.50 vs > > $42.50, durable(I drive 80-90 miles a workday), plus the wife likes > > them(super big plus). > > > > Oh and if you are close to McKinney, Texas - on 380, about 6 miles west of > > I-75, diesel is now................$1.49 per gallon. It is at 380 and > Custer > > Rd. Only station around. > > > > > > Waylon > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: acordova-at-texas.net [mailto:acordova-at-texas.net] > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 AM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: 300d vs 190d (long) > > > > > I was wondering, > > > > > > The 190 and the 300 in later vintages seem to be almost the same car > > > with the exception of the longer tail section of the 300. The interior > > > is almost completely different though. I would consider a 300d if I > > > > SNIP > > > > More than you wanted to know, but there it is. > > > > Regards, > > Alec Cordova > > Taylor, Texas > > 89 300CE, 155K as of yesterday, so I need to visit my dealer and get my > > 250,000 > > kilometer grill > > badge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:03:31 -0800 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent I thought one could still buy one of the new VW Jetta / Golf direct inject diesels...I sure see quite a few of them near San Jose. Randy '87 300 SDL - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schwartz [mailto:pschw-at-earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:44 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent Diesel used to more expensive than Regular gas, but after we "reformulated" the gasoline for clean air standards the price went up over the price of D2. But, this has more to do with the fact that we will pay it, rather than anything else. I believe that we can no longer sell new diesel cars in California, but we can import them from other states as used cars. Someone might correct me on that issue. Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Black, Waylon" To: "'Paul Schwartz'" Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: RE: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent > Wow - diesel was about the price of Super Unleaded. I bought Super for 1.70 > the other day. > > Last summer diesel was 1.18 - ahhh the good ole days. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Schwartz [mailto:pschw-at-earthlink.net] > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 12:24 PM > To: Black, Waylon > Subject: Re: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent > > Here in the "People's Republic of Kalifornia" I still see Diesel under two > bucks occasionally. But, Unleaded regular is about $2.15. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Black, Waylon" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 9:03 AM > Subject: RE: 300d vs 190d (long) - excellent > > > > I always enjoy the emails that shed a little light onto MBs history. Being > a > > prior Chrysler man I NEVER considered anything else(gas or diesel). I > > 'awakened' in January 02. In addition to my Chrysler 'fleet' I have since > > added (2) 83 300 SDs, a Volvo 242 turbo, and a VW diesel trucklet. Diesels > > make more sense to me(in Texas). Emission exempt(inspection is $12.50 vs > > $42.50, durable(I drive 80-90 miles a workday), plus the wife likes > > them(super big plus). > > > > Oh and if you are close to McKinney, Texas - on 380, about 6 miles west of > > I-75, diesel is now................$1.49 per gallon. It is at 380 and > Custer > > Rd. Only station around. > > > > > > Waylon > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: acordova-at-texas.net [mailto:acordova-at-texas.net] > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 AM > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: 300d vs 190d (long) > > > > > I was wondering, > > > > > > The 190 and the 300 in later vintages seem to be almost the same car > > > with the exception of the longer tail section of the 300. The interior > > > is almost completely different though. I would consider a 300d if I > > > > SNIP > > > > More than you wanted to know, but there it is. > > > > Regards, > > Alec Cordova > > Taylor, Texas > > 89 300CE, 155K as of yesterday, so I need to visit my dealer and get my > > 250,000 > > kilometer grill > > badge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:08:59 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Used cars On Friday, March 21, 2003, at 02:18 PM, john wrote: > excellent! > > What I try to do is buy a troubled used car that no one in their > right mind would consider, make the repairs, fix the cosmetic stuff, > drive it until I'm tired of it, bored with it, find something better > or realize that I need to fix something else soon and decide to switch > projects. :) I keep track of what I "invest" and usually sell my > used cars for as much, or more then I paid for them initially. Of > course > if you factor in my time I'm going backwards, but I'm only looking > at parts and repairs by others. Yes... I too like the idea of "improving them" rather than watching them degrade over time. > > I can count on one hand the vehicles I've "lost" money on in my life. > that's out of 86... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > > I think Ludwig will be one that I "loose" money on if I sell him. I'm > way over book value now in parts and purchase price. If the ignition > switch hadn't failed and I had troubleshot the injector problem more > carefully my repair costs would have been much less. Replacing all > the injectors and filters was just something I prefer to do on an > older Diesel anyway... give me a solid baseline to work from. :) > I also fixed things that could have been left unrepaired, like the > radio antenna.... it worked, it just didn't go up and down. ;) > Hmmm.... I guess its a way of looking at things. You replaced injectors. You know you wont have an injector related issue with your engine for another 100k miles. Thats not a waste of money thats insurance. > Used cars aren't a problem, they're a way of life. :) > > I've never owned a new vehicle. I've been very fortunate to find > a used vehicle that would have been what I would have ordered. So, > like I've said before... Someone out there is taking care of my > "new" car for me... ;) > > BTW, the 2.5L Turbo Diesel 190D does sound interesting... :) > > john > > At 10:35 AM 3/21/2003 -0500, Aimino, Michael wrote: >> Random thoughts on this, in no particular order: >> >> * New cars have problems, too. I won't buy new anymore assuming that >> I'm >> getting a problem-free ride. My experience has taught me otherwise. >> >> * People sell used cars for many reasons other than the car having a >> problem. >> I have a salesman friend who sells his car every other year because he >> feel he >> needs to maintain an image. His cars are low miles, low wear and would >> be an >> excellent buy. >> >> * I can run a report from Quicken and prove to anyone, in dollars and >> cents, >> that my used car cost me less, over any time period you want to >> measure, than >> my new cars. Factor in depreciation, interest, taxes, and you're way >> ahead. I >> bought a 1981 VW Rabbit diesel 4 years ago for $350. Total lifetime >> repairs >> were ~ $1500. I put over 50k miles on that car and sold it for $100. >> Show me a >> new car I can buy for $1750 (in the last 20 years) that'll go 50k >> miles and >> I'll buy it. >> >> Of course, I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but I get this >> argument all >> the time from people who love to give all their $$$ to various banks >> and >> S&Ls. >> >> >> _______________ >> >> >> "Every used car you buy is being sold for a reason. >> If there was nothing wrong with it, it wouldn't be for sale." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:22:38 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Used cars On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 11:20:15AM -0500, Aimino, Michael wrote: > LOL. Yeah, that's a factor that I always fail to remember. Their loss, our > gain. And of all the stuff I've bought over the years, there's been at least one "not brand new car" malady that I've had to deal with in them. Granted, buying a 4x4 for $200, throwing a $150 slave cylinder in it and driving the nuts out of it for three years not needing anything else has happened more than once. I didn't necessarily mean that old cars are junk, or anything. In fact, it's quite the opposite. My 74 hornet wagon has been a FAR more reliable car with a LOT less wrong than the 98 buick in the family - that buick's been in the shop almost twice the number of times the hornet has needed work done SINCE 1974 (oil changes don't count, obviously). But, inertia is in full force in america. People believe the hype that new car automatically means rock solid reliable. I obviously don't. Most people out there don't have the money to frivolously drop on a new car because they want to. A lot decide that what they bought was wrong for them (have truck, but don't like parking it; have sports car, but family don't fit in it, etc), and those are definately bargains. The vast majority, however, are cars that started needing attention either more costly or with greater frequency than the owner intended. Where we come in, is they usually lose their patience when there really is only one thing left that needs fixing, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back. We fix the one thing, and we have a rock solid car for cheap, for a long time. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:34:04 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Used cars > I didn't necessarily mean that old cars are junk, or anything. In fact, it's > quite the opposite. My 74 hornet wagon has been a FAR more reliable car with > a LOT less wrong than the 98 buick in the family - that buick's been in the > shop almost twice the number of times the hornet has needed work done SINCE > 1974 (oil changes don't count, obviously). > > At least you don't own a Jaguar! Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:35:45 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Used cars On Friday, March 21, 2003, at 02:43 PM, Paul Schwartz wrote: > Generally, I drive my used cars until they won't move and then I donate > them > to a charity for the tax write-off. My last car, an Audi 4000, burst > into > flames while I was driving. That one got junked. One reason is I do a > fair > amount of my own work and in California there are liability issues when > you > sell a car like that. Your kidding right? In Georgia we have the 20 second 20 feet law. When you buy the car and are driving away if your driving for 20 seconds or get 20 feet (whichever comes first) your out of luck > > I really like this 240D I just bought. I just love that "I'm driving a > tank" > ride it has. This car suits me! > > I never buy collision insurance, but I carry liability--this saves me > about > $1000.00 - $2000.00 (US) a year. > > Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john" > To: "Aimino, Michael" ; benz-at-digest.net> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:18 AM > Subject: RE: Used cars > > >> excellent! >> >> What I try to do is buy a troubled used car that no one in their >> right mind would consider, make the repairs, fix the cosmetic stuff, >> drive it until I'm tired of it, bored with it, find something better >> or realize that I need to fix something else soon and decide to switch >> projects. :) I keep track of what I "invest" and usually sell my >> used cars for as much, or more then I paid for them initially. Of >> course >> if you factor in my time I'm going backwards, but I'm only looking >> at parts and repairs by others. >> >> I can count on one hand the vehicles I've "lost" money on in my life. >> that's out of 86... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html >> >> I think Ludwig will be one that I "loose" money on if I sell him. I'm >> way over book value now in parts and purchase price. If the ignition >> switch hadn't failed and I had troubleshot the injector problem more >> carefully my repair costs would have been much less. Replacing all >> the injectors and filters was just something I prefer to do on an >> older Diesel anyway... give me a solid baseline to work from. :) >> I also fixed things that could have been left unrepaired, like the >> radio antenna.... it worked, it just didn't go up and down. ;) >> >> Used cars aren't a problem, they're a way of life. :) >> >> I've never owned a new vehicle. I've been very fortunate to find >> a used vehicle that would have been what I would have ordered. So, >> like I've said before... Someone out there is taking care of my >> "new" car for me... ;) >> >> BTW, the 2.5L Turbo Diesel 190D does sound interesting... :) >> >> john >> >> At 10:35 AM 3/21/2003 -0500, Aimino, Michael wrote: >>> Random thoughts on this, in no particular order: >>> >>> * New cars have problems, too. I won't buy new anymore assuming that >>> I'm >>> getting a problem-free ride. My experience has taught me otherwise. >>> >>> * People sell used cars for many reasons other than the car having a > problem. >>> I have a salesman friend who sells his car every other year because he > feel he >>> needs to maintain an image. His cars are low miles, low wear and >>> would be > an >>> excellent buy. >>> >>> * I can run a report from Quicken and prove to anyone, in dollars and > cents, >>> that my used car cost me less, over any time period you want to >>> measure, > than >>> my new cars. Factor in depreciation, interest, taxes, and you're way > ahead. I >>> bought a 1981 VW Rabbit diesel 4 years ago for $350. Total lifetime > repairs >>> were ~ $1500. I put over 50k miles on that car and sold it for $100. >>> Show > me a >>> new car I can buy for $1750 (in the last 20 years) that'll go 50k >>> miles > and >>> I'll buy it. >>> >>> Of course, I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but I get this > argument all >>> the time from people who love to give all their $$$ to various banks >>> and >>> S&Ls. >>> >>> >>> _______________ >>> >>> >>> "Every used car you buy is being sold for a reason. >>> If there was nothing wrong with it, it wouldn't be for sale." >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #939 *********************************