From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #945 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 28 2003 Volume 01 : Number 945 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Questions on '87 300 SDL RE: Questions on '87 300 SDL RE: Questions on '87 300 SDL RE: Questions on '87 300 SDL Re: Questions on '87 300 SDL Re: Used cars Re: Used cars Re: Used cars Re: Used cars Re: Used cars W-126 grille insert Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:17:01 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Questions on '87 300 SDL It's been a couple of years since I had my 89 300CE properly aligned, but I think it was well under 200 bucks. With the weight stuff, it sounds like the alignment shop is on the right track, but you might check the local dealership just for reference. They may actually farm the work out, but it would be done correctly, including locking the steering box on center. That is the critical piece to an effective and long- lasting MB alignment. At this mileage, you may have worn rubber bits that may prevent the car fom achieving or maintaining proper alignment. A good and honest alignment shop should be able to tell you. On the center vents, I think an 87 SDL still uses vacuum to open and close vents. If you have any other symptoms of vacuum problems (slow motor shutoff, inappropriate promptness in transmission shifts, then start the hunt. If other vacuum systems seem to work well, it could simply be some diaphragms in vacuum actuators behind the dash. George_Murphy-at-compuserve.com is The Man for this. He can provide new actuators, possibly even just new diaphragms, and good instructions for diagnosis and repair. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 155K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:40:48 -0800 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: Questions on '87 300 SDL Alec Does intermittent function of the cruise control count for potential vacuum problems? Mine works well most of the time, then once in a while it decides to take a vacation... I have no shut off problems, nor does the transmission shift at what I consider inappropriate times (although it does shift rather hard from 2nd to 3rd...). Thanks again, Randy - -----Original Message----- From: acordova-at-texas.net [mailto:acordova-at-texas.net] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:17 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Questions on '87 300 SDL It's been a couple of years since I had my 89 300CE properly aligned, but I think it was well under 200 bucks. With the weight stuff, it sounds like the alignment shop is on the right track, but you might check the local dealership just for reference. They may actually farm the work out, but it would be done correctly, including locking the steering box on center. That is the critical piece to an effective and long- lasting MB alignment. At this mileage, you may have worn rubber bits that may prevent the car fom achieving or maintaining proper alignment. A good and honest alignment shop should be able to tell you. On the center vents, I think an 87 SDL still uses vacuum to open and close vents. If you have any other symptoms of vacuum problems (slow motor shutoff, inappropriate promptness in transmission shifts, then start the hunt. If other vacuum systems seem to work well, it could simply be some diaphragms in vacuum actuators behind the dash. George_Murphy-at-compuserve.com is The Man for this. He can provide new actuators, possibly even just new diaphragms, and good instructions for diagnosis and repair. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 155K ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:50:29 -0600 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Questions on '87 300 SDL The sandbags are(should be) standard procedure, BUT it is to simulate how the car is normally used. DO YOU normally drive around with a full tank and a car load of people? Try to have the car aligned with a half tank and maybe with 2 people(sandbags) in the car. This puts you 'in the middle' of the specs. The goal is to align the car (to specs) as it is used. I'm all for 'factory' procedures but have them put a little thought in it. Do you want the minimum tire wear, best mpg, and best handling only when your car has a fuel tank, 4-5 passengers, etc.... They had techs do this at a BMW dealership I worked at, and I gave them flak about it then, too. ;) Your shimmy is probably a loose tie rod or ball joint. You could always try driving the limit. ;) The vents will be bad vacuum and/or bad actuator. I have not gotten into finding a way to make the HVAC better/more reliable. Waylon Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com [mailto:REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:01 PM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Questions on '87 300 SDL Fellow Listers I have a 1987 300 SDL with about 293k miles on it. Two things that need attention; one is a must fix, the other is an annoyance. Must fix: I have a shimmy at higher speeds (typically higher than posted limits). The shimmy appears to be (by the wear pattern on the tire) localized to the left front tire. My first though was an unbalanced tire, so I had the tires replaced (originals have had several repairs each). New tires (with balancing, etc) did not seem to fix the problem. I now suspect mis-alignment, although the car does not seem to pull to one side or the other. I do not want to ruin the recent $400 investment in new tires. I have been to a local shop. They estimate about $245 for an alignment, based on the fact that they say the car must be fully loaded with fuel (seems reasonable) as well as sand bags in the car seats to mimic a full load at speed. Questions: Does this estimate seem reasonable for the work to be done, or should I consider an alternate shop? Does mis-alignment seem like it may be the cause, or should I look elsewhere? Annoyance: my middle vents do not open. All climate controls operate correctly, AC comes on when it is supposed to, heater comes on when it is supposed to. However, when the AC is running, all air is diverted to the defrost vents. AC air still flows to the side vents, but on a hot day, having the air flow to the defrost vents makes cool down time an extended experience. Any thoughts on where/what I should investigate? Thanks in advance for any and all help, Randy Eisenhardt Alien TechnologyTM Corporation 18410 Butterfield Boulevard Suite 150 Morgan Hill, CA 95037 408.782.3971 (direct) 408.782.3910 (FAX) reisenhardt-at-alientechnology.com www.alientechnology.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:02:25 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: RE: Questions on '87 300 SDL > Alec > > Does intermittent function of the cruise control count for potential vacuum > problems? Mine works well most of the time, then once in a while it decides > to take a vacation... I have no shut off problems, nor does the transmission > shift at what I consider inappropriate times (although it does shift rather > hard from 2nd to 3rd...). > > Thanks again, > > Randy Sorry, but the cruise control is the other weak point on 80's MB longevity in addition to the automatic climate control. You simply have encountered them both. Their only relation is that George can also provide tremendous help with the cruise. Two common causes for cruise control flakiness are solder joints that didn't hold up to the environment under the hood, which can often be resolved be carefully remelting every single solder connection inside the cruise control amp, and wearing through a carbon arc that is used for electrical connections. I think the carbon thing is also in the cc amp, but it's less conducive to fixing. George sells well-rebuilt parts, but they ain't cheap, unless you're comparing them to dealer prices. One possible and cheap, but less likely, solution to the cruise issue is to replace all the fuses you can find, unless they have been replaced within the last five years or so. Don't judge old MB fuses by appearance. If they're old, just replace them. It's cheap, can be done at home, and has frequently been known to resolve a wide variety of strange symptoms. Sounds like your vacuum system is in reasonable shape. That leaves the vacuum- controlled air flow actuators or more costly climate control pieces. Good luck, Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:35:28 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Questions on '87 300 SDL On Thursday, March 27, 2003, at 01:01 PM, REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com wrote: > Fellow Listers > > I have a 1987 300 SDL with about 293k miles on it. Two things that need > attention; one is a must fix, the other is an annoyance. > > Must fix: I have a shimmy at higher speeds (typically higher than posted > limits). The shimmy appears to be (by the wear pattern on the tire) > localized to the left front tire. My first though was an unbalanced > tire, so > I had the tires replaced (originals have had several repairs each). New > tires (with balancing, etc) did not seem to fix the problem. I now > suspect > mis-alignment, although the car does not seem to pull to one side or the > other. I do not want to ruin the recent $400 investment in new tires. I > have > been to a local shop. They estimate about $245 for an alignment, based > on > the fact that they say the car must be fully loaded with fuel (seems > reasonable) as well as sand bags in the car seats to mimic a full load > at > speed. > I paid a lot less for the alignment on my 300SD. I would say that you probably have some suspension problems. I talked to the tech while he was aligning my car (I was under the car with him) and he mentioned that the older Mercedes were somtimes tricky to align due to the alignment controls getting stiff with age. Right when he said that he had a wrench on one of my adjustments and pulled it with a huge CREAK!. My suspension has some issues as well however. I do get a small vibration at certain speeds in the steering wheel. Not a biggie really and I know where its coming from since my suspension sometimes creaks while braking. Im planning on having an "overhaul" done sometime in the future where all the rubber in my suspension and rear end are replaced. Ill probably have them find out whats creaking at the same time. > Questions: Does this estimate seem reasonable for the work to be done, > or > should I consider an alternate shop? Does mis-alignment seem like it > may be > the cause, or should I look elsewhere? > > I dunno. I would research the suspension a little before plunking down non refundable money like that. If they "guarantee" that they can fix it I would jump on the chance for them to give me a free painstaking alignment > > Annoyance: my middle vents do not open. All climate controls operate > correctly, AC comes on when it is supposed to, heater comes on when it > is > supposed to. However, when the AC is running, all air is diverted to the > defrost vents. AC air still flows to the side vents, but on a hot day, > having the air flow to the defrost vents makes cool down time an > extended > experience. > > Any thoughts on where/what I should investigate? > > My car does the same thing. I think that the car "defaults" to defrost as a "limp home mode" in the event of a system failure. My electrical stuff on the front switches work as well as the thermostat but I don't get vent switching. Im guessing mine has a loose vacuum line or a failed vacuum module in the dash. > > > > Thanks in advance for any and all help, > > Even with alll my car's problems its probably the best car I have ever owned. > > Randy Eisenhardt > Alien TechnologyTM Corporation > 18410 Butterfield Boulevard > Suite 150 > Morgan Hill, CA 95037 > 408.782.3971 (direct) > 408.782.3910 (FAX) > reisenhardt-at-alientechnology.com > www.alientechnology.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:20:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Used cars Robert Chase wrote: > > Jerry Perhaps you should "borrow" her car and forget to set the parking > brake near a large drop off? Sorry honey with the insurance money we > can buy you a Mercedes > *** You must be thinking of some other, richer Jerry. Some Jerry who buys comprehensive insurance for his old cars :). - Jerry p.s. Did I forget to mention the malfunctioning windshield wipers and headlights? Yeah, guess I did.... > R. > > > On Sunday, March 23, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > > Paul Schwartz wrote: > >> > >>> I didn't necessarily mean that old cars are junk, or anything. In > >>> fact, > >> it's > >>> quite the opposite. My 74 hornet wagon has been a FAR more reliable > >>> car > >> with > >>> a LOT less wrong than the 98 buick in the family - that buick's been > >>> in > >> the > >>> shop almost twice the number of times the hornet has needed work done > >> SINCE > >>> 1974 (oil changes don't count, obviously). > >>> > >>> > >> At least you don't own a Jaguar! > >> > > *** Yes, I do. At least, my wife does. Since buying this turkey last > > year, it has required > > > > * New brake pads > > * New front brake rotors > > * New oil cooler hoses > > * New thermostatic fan clutch > > * Radiator rodding > > * New water temperature sender > > * Transmission rebuild > > * New spark plug wires, spark plugs, rotor cap > > * Miscellaneous electrical fixes > > * New ball joints > > * Tires > > > > This is exacerbated by my having tendinitis in both hands, so I can't > > do much work myself. The money in the car has FAR exceeded any possible > > value that it could have on the open market. > > > > ...I tried to get her to buy a Mercedes.... > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:33:00 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Used cars Heh heh, Whell..... One would think a new policy might come in handy..... Actually I would get rid of the car..... A friend of mine is dealing with some of the same issues with his sister's 745 BMW. Seems that the dealer cant keep the car running for any period of time. New engine and 2 new transmissions and a LOAD of other problems that keep it in the shop.... I had problems like these with my Volvo... I loved the car but ultimately my sanity was more important to me. Robert... On Thursday, March 27, 2003, at 06:20 PM, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > Robert Chase wrote: >> >> Jerry Perhaps you should "borrow" her car and forget to set the parking >> brake near a large drop off? Sorry honey with the insurance money we >> can buy you a Mercedes >> > *** You must be thinking of some other, richer Jerry. Some Jerry who > buys > comprehensive insurance for his old cars :). > > - Jerry > > p.s. Did I forget to mention the malfunctioning windshield wipers and > headlights? Yeah, guess I did.... > >> R. > >> >> >> On Sunday, March 23, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >> >>> Paul Schwartz wrote: >>>> >>>>> I didn't necessarily mean that old cars are junk, or anything. In >>>>> fact, >>>> it's >>>>> quite the opposite. My 74 hornet wagon has been a FAR more reliable >>>>> car >>>> with >>>>> a LOT less wrong than the 98 buick in the family - that buick's been >>>>> in >>>> the >>>>> shop almost twice the number of times the hornet has needed work >>>>> done >>>> SINCE >>>>> 1974 (oil changes don't count, obviously). >>>>> >>>>> >>>> At least you don't own a Jaguar! >>>> >>> *** Yes, I do. At least, my wife does. Since buying this turkey last >>> year, it has required >>> >>> * New brake pads >>> * New front brake rotors >>> * New oil cooler hoses >>> * New thermostatic fan clutch >>> * Radiator rodding >>> * New water temperature sender >>> * Transmission rebuild >>> * New spark plug wires, spark plugs, rotor cap >>> * Miscellaneous electrical fixes >>> * New ball joints >>> * Tires >>> >>> This is exacerbated by my having tendinitis in both hands, so I >>> can't >>> do much work myself. The money in the car has FAR exceeded any >>> possible >>> value that it could have on the open market. >>> >>> ...I tried to get her to buy a Mercedes.... >>> >>> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:59:50 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Used cars On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 03:20:46PM -0800, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > p.s. Did I forget to mention the malfunctioning windshield wipers and > headlights? Yeah, guess I did.... Windshield wipers are ornamental on a jag. Hell, I'm surprised the lucas electronics actually allow that bloody thing to turn over in the rain, much less start, much less run long enough to justify wipers. Headlights? Strap two maglites to the front bumper. :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:05:31 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: Used cars On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 06:33:00PM -0500, Robert Chase wrote: > Actually I would get rid of the car..... A friend of mine is dealing > with some of the same issues with his sister's 745 BMW. Seems that the > dealer cant keep the car running for any period of time. New engine and > 2 new transmissions and a LOAD of other problems that keep it in the > shop.... It's really sad what has become of cars these days. My supervisor's subaru has 58k on it, second transmission, second passenger side head gasket, and it's using coolant. And he babies it. > I had problems like these with my Volvo... I loved the car but > ultimately my sanity was more important to me. One of these days, car manufacturers will remember that they have to build a car that will keep the customers happy for a few thousand miles, otherwise they won't be selling many cars for long. Who cares how much cash your service organization brings in if people aren't buying the cars. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:08:18 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Used cars > Windshield wipers are ornamental on a jag. > > Hell, I'm surprised the lucas electronics actually allow that bloody thing to > turn over in the rain, much less start, much less run long enough to justify > wipers. > > Headlights? Strap two maglites to the front bumper. :) > I went to a show of old English sports cars and some guy had a tee-shirt that said: Lucas three position light switch, off, dim and flicker. I used to own a BSA motorcycle and I know the truth of that. Paul PS: Does it bother anyone that Lucas won the bid to wire the Space Shuttle? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:10:42 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: W-126 grille insert Hey, Just got my new grille insert in the mail. Going to replace it soon. Anybody have any helpful hints that will save me some problems? Its a little more involved than I thought.... Ill have to remove the entire grille assembly (the instructions say at least) and I will have to cut the chrome strips. Cant wait to get rid of my dirty/cracked/dented grille... R. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #945 *********************************