From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #951 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, March 31 2003 Volume 01 : Number 951 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 32 mpg Re: 32 mpg Clip vs. peened Re: Clip vs. peened Re: Clip vs. peened Re: Fwd: Re: 32 mpg Re: Fwd: Re: 32 mpg Time to make a decision Re: Time to make a decision Re: Time to make a decision RE: Time to make a decision OM603 300SDL vs. OM617 300SD WAS: Time to make a decision Re: OM603 300SDL vs. OM617 300SD WAS: Time to make a decision Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:35:01 -0800 From: Lee or RK Rossi Subject: Re: 32 mpg The truth is that it smells good, causes uphoria, and is highly addictive that is why we con't live without at least one on them in the garage or at the dock. Lee john wrote: > > At 12:21 PM 3/30/2003 -0800, hue wong wrote: > >Don't they tax diesel higher becuase it pollutes more? > > that's blasphemy... no, it pollutes LESS then a gas engine, > it's just that all those tree huggers think it smells bad so > it "MUST" pollute more. But Diesel produces less toxic emissions > then a gas engine... you can run a Diesel inside and live... don't > try that with a gas engine though... ;) > > john > > >--- Michael Frank wrote: > > > A few flawed assumptions here. > > > - Business will write off ALL their fuel costs, not > > > just road use taxes. > > > It's an expense item. > > > > > > - You have to spend money to write it off, nothing > > > comes free. > > > > > > - The overwhelming majority of over the road Diesel > > > users are truckers. > > > Trucks tear up the highways more than cars do, so > > > truckers pay more tax. > > > What you are really asking for is a separate pump > > > and tax rate for > > > automotive users. Don't worry about convincing the > > > gov't. Worry about > > > convincing your service station. > > > > > > - Stationary Diesels and farm Diesels don't have to > > > pay road use tax, their > > > fuel is dyed red. They still get to write off their > > > fuel costs. > > > > > > Mike Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:27 PM 3/29/03, Gary, Orlando wrote: > > > >Concerning cost of fuel... > > > > > > > >So, in essence, the feds are actually taxing the > > > 'private' consumer more > > > >than gas users. What is the proportion of 'private' > > > gas users to > > > >'private' diesel users. It has to be a HUGE number. > > > So, what real > > > >benefit do the federallies have by a higher diesel > >tax? > >Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! > >http://platinum.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:40:28 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: 32 mpg At 04:35 PM 3/30/2003 -0800, Lee or RK Rossi wrote: >The truth is that it smells good, causes uphoria, and is highly >addictive that is why we con't live without at least one on them in the >garage or at the dock. >Lee that's right... if Diesel's weren't safer would they put 'em on boats? ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:18:50 -0800 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Clip vs. peened In my wanderings on the net, I did find one tool for peening the master links. In fact, I found several made by the same manufacture.. These are designed for O-ring style chains on high-performance motorcycles, but one of them ought to work fine for timeing chains of our oil burners. http://www.motionpro.com/chaintools.html There are several on this page. If the one at the bottom of the page works, it's a winner. I'll check it out. More later. Paul 240D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:25:10 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Clip vs. peened There is a company I found on the web which sells this tool along with a complete line of other Beemer and MB specialty tools. Search yahoo for "mercedes benz specialty tool" and you should find it. Failing that, check back with me and I'll try to find the information. I bought the swaging tool but haven't used it yet. VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Schwartz" To: Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: Clip vs. peened > In my wanderings on the net, I did find one tool for peening the master > links. In fact, I found several made by the same manufacture.. These are > designed for O-ring style chains on high-performance motorcycles, but one of > them ought to work fine for timeing chains of our oil burners. > > http://www.motionpro.com/chaintools.html > > There are several on this page. If the one at the bottom of the page works, > it's a winner. I'll check it out. More later. > > Paul > 240D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:31:51 -0600 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Clip vs. peened Also, I forgot to mention that the said tools come in different versions depending on how many "layers" the timing chain has (for lack of a better word). I would personally hesitate to use one made for a m/c chain although it might work. It also might work to put the face of a large sledge hammer against the back side of the chain and then whack the dickens out of the front pin in order to swage it. However, the ramifications of failure would be ugly indeed... I believe the tool cost about a hundred abdullahs. Cheaper than an engine rebuild by far. VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Tuck" To: "Paul Schwartz" ; Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Clip vs. peened > There is a company I found on the web which sells this tool along with a > complete line of other Beemer and MB specialty tools. > > Search yahoo for "mercedes benz specialty tool" and you should find it. > Failing that, check back with me and I'll try to find the information. > > I bought the swaging tool but haven't used it yet. > > VT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Schwartz" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:18 PM > Subject: Clip vs. peened > > > > In my wanderings on the net, I did find one tool for peening the master > > links. In fact, I found several made by the same manufacture.. These are > > designed for O-ring style chains on high-performance motorcycles, but one > of > > them ought to work fine for timeing chains of our oil burners. > > > > http://www.motionpro.com/chaintools.html > > > > There are several on this page. If the one at the bottom of the page > works, > > it's a winner. I'll check it out. More later. > > > > Paul > > 240D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:32:44 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 32 mpg Did you have any indication that the chain was going out? Or is this PM? Mike Frank At 05:31 PM 3/30/03, john wrote: >the new timing chain was purchased with a new master link... clip style... >getting installed tomorrow... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:54:30 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 32 mpg PM. the guy that bought Fritz changed the timing chain and he's getting 31.5 out of my old '81 300D. :) My mechanic friend also agrees that swapping this chain out will improve the economy of the 190D... has close to 214k on it. john At 08:32 PM 3/30/2003 -0500, Michael Frank wrote: >Did you have any indication that the chain was going out? Or is this PM? > >Mike Frank > > > >At 05:31 PM 3/30/03, john wrote: >>the new timing chain was purchased with a new master link... clip style... >>getting installed tomorrow... - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:11:10 -0700 From: "JC Jones" Subject: Time to make a decision It's about time to make a decision on buying a car. Owning my 78 300D has got me hooked on not only Mercedes, but Diesels at that. I am looking at an 87 300SDL, 140k miles, in what I would rate as excellent condition. It has 1 crack in the dashboard, a BB sized ding in the passenger rear door (literally it looks like it was shot with a BB), and the woodgrain around the climate controls and the floor console is beginning to show it's age (not cracked, but the surface is not perfectly smooth any more). It has new tires, new brakes, new headlights, new visors, new windshield, new glow plugs, new A/C compressor, and about 3 dozen other small new parts and repairs. Other than the dashboard and woodgrain panels, the interior is in perfect condition, the body is great, great paint, no rust or previous body repairs, glass is all perfect, etc. The A/C and heater work perfectly, the car starts easily and runs great, everything works. The engine was just rebuilt with a new (used) crankshaft, due to a hole in the oil pan causing the engine to sieze. The transmission was serviced when the engine was rebuilt. What is a fair ballpark price for this car? What weaknesses does this year/model have? What are the strengths of this year/model? How much is electronically controlled on this year/model? Can I reasonably expect to get 100k out of this car (250k total miles) without any major service (barring any unforseen problems it may currently have). I have heard that the head may be prone to overheating under load, but that a later model head will cure this problem. Should I worry about removing the Trap Oxidizer? Any information will be greatly appreciated, I am looking to buy this car in the next 2 weeks if there are not any substantial reasons not to. Thanks, JC Jones ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:53:54 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: Time to make a decision At 09:11 PM 3/30/2003 -0700, JC Jones wrote: >It's about time to make a decision on buying a car. > >Owning my 78 300D has got me hooked on not only Mercedes, but Diesels at >that. > >I am looking at an 87 300SDL, 140k miles, did you look at http://www.kbb.com and http://www.nada.com to get some ideas? is this the same one that is owned by a mechanic that also owns one? ;) After driving this '85 190D 2.2L around I'm thinking that a later model 2.5L TD would be pretty slick. I'm taking mine to a mechanic friend to have the timing chain changed tomorrow morning... I'm pretty buried in this thing now... into it way over book value... On the 300SDL if you don't need anything and you can get into it within book range and the feedback is favorable you will probably be fine. The ignition switch and injector line on mine wasn't expected... guess that comes from a car sitting for a long time... is the 300SDL driven much? john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:48:18 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Time to make a decision > It's about time to make a decision on buying a car. > > Owning my 78 300D has got me hooked on not only Mercedes, but Diesels at > that. > > I am looking at an 87 300SDL, 140k miles, There were a lot fewer of these sold in the US than the older OM617 motor, so there will be fewer stories, but from what I have heard, they can be very nice cars. Moving up from a 78 non-turbo, the 87 should be a wonderful improvement in power, even better than a turbo 5 cylinder. My understanding is that the motor uses an iron block and an aluminum or alloy head, so if it overheats, it is easy to damage. I have not heard that they are more likely to overheat than the older motor, just that it is easier to damage the newer motor if it does overheat. And yes, I have also heard that replacement heads were redesigned to improve this risk. The fact that even the visors were replaced sounds good to me. Those aren't cheap, and if a previous owner spent the money to replace them, they probably took good care of the car in general. I would be curious about the extent of the motor repairs, though, and whether they were done by someone familiar with these motors. The 6 cylinder turbodiesel is more technically advanced than our beloved old OM617 5 banger, and that could affect DIY capabilities. Other than that, the W126 chassis is another gloriously-engineered design that should hold up well and be reasonably maintainable. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 155K, but I miss the sweet diesel smell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:54:54 -0800 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: Time to make a decision Alex My 87 300 SDL is by far the best car I have owned. Comfortable, quick enough, great mileage for such a large car, and it has been reliable. It is very stable at high speeds, even fully loaded with 3 passengers. I bought mine with 275k on the car, and other than minor annoyances (see my previous post about shimmy and air vents), I have experienced no problems with the car. Go for it! Randy '87 300 SDL (Big Ben) 293k - -----Original Message----- From: acordova-at-texas.net [mailto:acordova-at-texas.net] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:48 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: Time to make a decision > It's about time to make a decision on buying a car. > > Owning my 78 300D has got me hooked on not only Mercedes, but Diesels at > that. > > I am looking at an 87 300SDL, 140k miles, There were a lot fewer of these sold in the US than the older OM617 motor, so there will be fewer stories, but from what I have heard, they can be very nice cars. Moving up from a 78 non-turbo, the 87 should be a wonderful improvement in power, even better than a turbo 5 cylinder. My understanding is that the motor uses an iron block and an aluminum or alloy head, so if it overheats, it is easy to damage. I have not heard that they are more likely to overheat than the older motor, just that it is easier to damage the newer motor if it does overheat. And yes, I have also heard that replacement heads were redesigned to improve this risk. The fact that even the visors were replaced sounds good to me. Those aren't cheap, and if a previous owner spent the money to replace them, they probably took good care of the car in general. I would be curious about the extent of the motor repairs, though, and whether they were done by someone familiar with these motors. The 6 cylinder turbodiesel is more technically advanced than our beloved old OM617 5 banger, and that could affect DIY capabilities. Other than that, the W126 chassis is another gloriously-engineered design that should hold up well and be reasonably maintainable. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 155K, but I miss the sweet diesel smell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:47:36 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: OM603 300SDL vs. OM617 300SD WAS: Time to make a decision > My 87 300 SDL is by far the best car I have owned. Comfortable, quick > enough, great mileage for such a large car, and it has been reliable. It is > very stable at high speeds, even fully loaded with 3 passengers. I bought > mine with 275k on the car, and other than minor annoyances (see my previous > post about shimmy and air vents), I have experienced no problems with the > car. Go for it! > > Randy > '87 300 SDL (Big Ben) > 293k > All right. Although I'm still happy with my 89 300CE, I'm pretty sure I'm going back to diesel for my next one. So let's gather some opinions here. I'm suspecting that I may miss the performance of my M103 gasser. I'm hoping to hear from anyone that has direct experience with both the pre-86 300SD with the 5 cylinder and the post-86 300SDL with the 3.0 liter 6 cylinder. I expect the later model to be a better driver, given the power characteristics of the motor. Any significant reliability or maintainability differences? I'm gonna go check autotrader and cars.com for availability and pricing. Thanks, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 155K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:38:43 -0500 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: OM603 300SDL vs. OM617 300SD WAS: Time to make a decision Randy, Love my 82 300SD. To compare my last two cars have been a 1998 Volvo S70 and a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe (currently for sale if anyone is interested ). Going this afternoon to talk to the dealer I bought my Benz from about consigning the Damn Accord :). So far I have had no major problems out of it other than pulling it out of the unkept condition it was in when I bought it..... Seems to get better every time I drive it... :) The Diesel engines are a bit of a different type driving situation than a gas model. The gas model has quick power and the diesel has much slower power. Much like flying a jet actually :) Your typical combustion engine aircraft has quick power where as a Jet has a little bit of "spool time" before you get your power. I actually like the diesel better than the gas engine because there is power where you really need it rather than power to show off. While your not going to leave anybody at a light you are probably going to annoy people on the highway going up hills because the diesel will leave them in the dust without even changing gears or even really changing engine rpm's much. I have seen a couple of figures on my car HP wise. I have seen 125hp somewhere. Seems ok for most practical driving. There is enough power to pull the car. If your one for quick starts and performance driving the diesel is probably not going to be for you. While the SD's will "get up and move" their 0-60 time is probably pretty bad. Try and find one with the european lamps. Mine has the Euro Lamps and looks newer than some of the 90-91 models. People are always shocked to find out my car is a 1982. Price is not much different. I don't really care for the w-126's with the sealed beam headlights. Kinda beastly lookin :) Good luck hopefully you will find a good deal. P.S. The existing w-126's are getting a little long in the tooth. Your driving a really nice late model Benz. Be prepared for some cosmetics and other issues that you won't see on your car. Lots of "typical" issues with this car are cheap fixes. Lots of Vacuum problems and other stuff. I would try to find one that has some issues on it already and get a good deal and repair them. Doing that will make sure that your pretty Benz that you paid a pretty penny for wont suffer the same malfunction and cost you that much more for the repair :) R. On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 12:47 PM, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >> My 87 300 SDL is by far the best car I have owned. Comfortable, quick >> enough, great mileage for such a large car, and it has been reliable. >> It is >> very stable at high speeds, even fully loaded with 3 passengers. I >> bought >> mine with 275k on the car, and other than minor annoyances (see my >> previous >> post about shimmy and air vents), I have experienced no problems with >> the >> car. Go for it! >> >> Randy >> '87 300 SDL (Big Ben) >> 293k >> > > All right. Although I'm still happy with my 89 300CE, I'm pretty sure > I'm going > back to diesel for my next one. So let's gather some opinions here. I'm > suspecting that I may miss the performance of my M103 gasser. > > I'm hoping to hear from anyone that has direct experience with both the > pre-86 > 300SD with the 5 cylinder and the post-86 300SDL with the 3.0 liter 6 > cylinder. > I expect the later model to be a better driver, given the power > characteristics > of the motor. Any significant reliability or maintainability > differences? > > I'm gonna go check autotrader and cars.com for availability and pricing. > > Thanks, > Alec Cordova > Taylor, Texas > 89 300CE, > 155K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #951 *********************************