From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #963 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 14 2003 Volume 01 : Number 963 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Cruise Control Amp Observations (things not to do) Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Sunroof woes Re: Sunroof woes Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:05:05 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Cruise Control Amp Observations (things not to do) At 03:02 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >john wrote: > >>At 01:12 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >> >>>Its scary when your unemployed Unix Engineer tries to fix his Mercedes :) >>>R. >> >> >>:) I'm planning on fixing my sunroof and driveline... any suggestions >>on what not to do oh fellow UNIX geek? ;) > > >Hey John.... Did not forget about your request for photos :) Ill get you >some w126 sunroof closeups. sounds like a plan, I ain't opening my sunroof for a bit... it was downpouring here today... ;) >>BTW, I'm not "technically" unemployed, more "under"employed at this point, >>teaching two classes for City U and one for Everett Community College. Of >>course all three of those classes don't even pay the mortgage... :( > >Not good.... I have been seeing some slight improvement in tech >jobs.... The companies are still in their "cheap ass" mode though. yeah, I know, I know... >>Now, go tighten your A/C belt... oiling that clutch assembly is not >>recommended... Kind of like loading Windows on your Sparc Classic... :) >>Just ain't gonna work... > >Yes...... Thats does not even sound fun :) neither does tightening that belt... ;) john >R. > > >> >> >>john >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:32:28 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad At 02:58 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >Hmmm, >Ill take a look at that.. Its quite possible that the stench was burning >rubber..... >Thanks for the tip! >R. I went through the same thing when I converted both of my Diesel Benz's.... terrified me... thought I'd destroyed 'em... (my first experience with the r134 stuff... ;) Still need to figure out why my a/c doesn't cycle after my mechanic fixed my ignition lock... :( john >john wrote: > >>I remember this happening... my belt was loose! >> >>Tighten your belt dude! ; ) >> >>john >> >>At 12:50 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >> >>>So I went ahead and did my conversion today. My system luckilly was >>>devoid of R-12 so I went ahead and purchased the kit for the >>>conversion. I followed the instructions and got a somewhat good result >>>working A/C with some minor side affects :) >>> >>>When I started the first can Just a few seconds after I got the valve >>>completely open I heard a relay click and my compressor start up. At >>>first it was fine but then started squeeling. I was tempted to shut >>>down the engine but I had a can of R134 running into it and it was not >>>done and I had not planned for a mission abort so I continued to fill >>>the system. After I got the first can in the compressor stopped >>>squeeling. The squeel was more of a mechanical squeel like metal >>>against metal rather than a squeeling belt. >>>Second can went in and the A/C started getting cold. I was excited. >>>We finished the 3rd can and did a parial can of the 3rd. The system >>>takes 2.2lb so I guestimated and Im rather sure I got it close. >>>Capped everything off and went for a drive. >>> >>>A/C was nice and cold especially once I got it on the interstate. I >>>drove for about 5-7 miles and then stopped at a truck stop for some >>>fuel. When I got into the truck stop we noticed an offensive smell but >>>thought it was one of the trucks. When I got the car stopped we had >>>smoke pouring out of the front grille. I went straight for the fire >>>extinguisher in the trunk and cautiosly opened the hood. The compressor >>>seemed to be really hot and was burning off some crustyness on the >>>outside of it. Im not sure if perhaps the compressor shaft or the belt >>>might need some lubrication since it probably has not been run in quite >>>some time. It was really smoking pretty well but when I turned on the >>>engine the smoke seemed to go away. >>>Im guessing that the car probably has a small leak somewhere in the A/C >>>system and sitting all those years caused the freon to leak completely >>>out. The car seems to be holding the R-134 and the compressor (which >>>was replaced in 1991) seems to be working. Im wondering if there is a >>>way to lubricate the compressor clutch without greasing up the belt and >>>causing slippage. >>>Anybody got any ideas? Im about to put a skull and crossbones sticker >>>on my A/C button so the unknowing does not burn my car to a crisp in the >>>event someone else has to drive it :). >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:11:06 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Yes..... I was also horrified.... The click of the compressor coming to life was VERY promising but the screaming belt and noise was a bit on the horrific side.... For a moment I saw myself giving that belt a nice SNIP and just putting up with the A/C problem until I could get it to a professional :) Ill get under the w-126 beastie tomorrow and do some more work with her...... For some reason I have been really interested in working on the car... R. john wrote: > At 02:58 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >> Hmmm, >> Ill take a look at that.. Its quite possible that the stench was >> burning rubber..... >> Thanks for the tip! >> R. > > > > I went through the same thing when I converted both of my Diesel > Benz's.... terrified me... thought I'd destroyed 'em... (my > first experience with the r134 stuff... ;) > > Still need to figure out why my a/c doesn't cycle after my > mechanic fixed my ignition lock... :( > > john > > > > > > > >> john wrote: >> >>> I remember this happening... my belt was loose! >>> >>> Tighten your belt dude! ; ) >>> >>> john >>> >>> At 12:50 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >>> >>>> So I went ahead and did my conversion today. My system luckilly >>>> was devoid of R-12 so I went ahead and purchased the kit for the >>>> conversion. I followed the instructions and got a somewhat good >>>> result working A/C with some minor side affects :) >>>> >>>> When I started the first can Just a few seconds after I got the >>>> valve completely open I heard a relay click and my compressor start >>>> up. At first it was fine but then started squeeling. I was >>>> tempted to shut down the engine but I had a can of R134 running >>>> into it and it was not done and I had not planned for a mission >>>> abort so I continued to fill the system. After I got the first can >>>> in the compressor stopped squeeling. The squeel was more of a >>>> mechanical squeel like metal against metal rather than a squeeling >>>> belt. >>>> Second can went in and the A/C started getting cold. I was excited. >>>> We finished the 3rd can and did a parial can of the 3rd. The >>>> system takes 2.2lb so I guestimated and Im rather sure I got it close. >>>> Capped everything off and went for a drive. >>>> >>>> A/C was nice and cold especially once I got it on the interstate. >>>> I drove for about 5-7 miles and then stopped at a truck stop for >>>> some fuel. When I got into the truck stop we noticed an offensive >>>> smell but thought it was one of the trucks. When I got the car >>>> stopped we had smoke pouring out of the front grille. I went >>>> straight for the fire extinguisher in the trunk and cautiosly >>>> opened the hood. The compressor seemed to be really hot and was >>>> burning off some crustyness on the outside of it. Im not sure if >>>> perhaps the compressor shaft or the belt might need some >>>> lubrication since it probably has not been run in quite some time. >>>> It was really smoking pretty well but when I turned on the engine >>>> the smoke seemed to go away. >>>> Im guessing that the car probably has a small leak somewhere in the >>>> A/C system and sitting all those years caused the freon to leak >>>> completely out. The car seems to be holding the R-134 and the >>>> compressor (which was replaced in 1991) seems to be working. Im >>>> wondering if there is a way to lubricate the compressor clutch >>>> without greasing up the belt and causing slippage. >>>> Anybody got any ideas? Im about to put a skull and crossbones >>>> sticker on my A/C button so the unknowing does not burn my car to a >>>> crisp in the event someone else has to drive it :). >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:33:44 -0500 From: Subject: Sunroof woes I bought a used Audi A8 for the wife this weekend and I think my Mercedes is jealous. First the car refused to shut off and the doors won't lock so somewhere I have a vacume leak. Secondly I opened the sunroof and it refused to close. I'm getting power through the fuse but no power to the switch or to the sunroof motor. I managed to close it using a battery charger to the sunroof motor plug but would love to get the roof to work again. Thirdly I thought I'd wash her and I blew a molding strip off the car with the power washer. Any BTDT on the sunroof problem? By the way I received my grill emblem for 250,000 KM through Mercedes. All you need to do is go to the Mercedes website and request the form and have a local salesman sign it. I actually have over 250,000 miles which is well on its way to the 500,000KM mark. Joe Oliver 1985 300CD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:36:36 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Sunroof woes Hmmm, I have heard the switches are a common failure item. How did you check the power to the switch issue? I think there is a sunroof relay as well that you may want to check on. Ill have to look when I go under my car this morning to deal with my smoking A/C compressor :) Other than checking the switch and fuse your problem is probably wiring related. Wiring issues as you know are the most expensive and annoying ones. You "could" run some wiring directly from the fuse box to the sunroof switch. I would try to determine where your open circuit was and run some new wiring to the sunroof. I would suggest severing the original circuit though once you decide to do this wiring. In the event that you roll over a bump somewhere you might inadvertantly have your sunroof open by itself or redirect power to some other part of the car and do some damage. Not a great solution but a workable one that will save you the trouble of taking your whole car apart for the wiring harness. A friend of mine burned out his "memory" wire during the install of a car stereo once and we had to do a similar dirty trick so he would have memory presets and a working clock (not quite as dirty as his install job as he used wire nuts to wire the stereo into the car's harness and lost lots of electrical items after the 2nd or 3rd bump). The Vacuum issue my car has suffered from. My issue was a bad hose. You can double check this by locating your shut off vacuum element and applying direct vacuum with a vacuum pump. When the engine is running and you do this your engine will shut off if your vacuum element is functioning. If not thats your culprit. Although I do have to admit doing this test myself and having my car not shut off and then bringing it to my mechanic (did not want to deal with the 126's vacuum element under all the diesel injection stuff and transmission vacuum stuff) and having them find a failed vacuum line. I wish you the best of luck solving these issues. Joe.Oliver-at-alltel.com wrote: >I bought a used Audi A8 for the wife this weekend and I think my Mercedes is >jealous. First the car refused to shut off and the doors won't lock so >somewhere I have a vacume leak. Secondly I opened the sunroof and it refused >to close. I'm getting power through the fuse but no power to the switch or to >the sunroof motor. I managed to close it using a battery charger to the >sunroof motor plug but would love to get the roof to work again. Thirdly I >thought I'd wash her and I blew a molding strip off the car with the power >washer. > Any BTDT on the sunroof problem? > By the way I received my grill emblem for 250,000 KM through Mercedes. All >you need to do is go to the Mercedes website and request the form and have a >local salesman sign it. I actually have over 250,000 miles which is well on >its way to the 500,000KM mark. > >Joe Oliver >1985 300CD ------------------------------ Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:03:36 -0400 From: gary Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad I just can't help but wonder... If this was an older system that had R-12, then it had older R-12 oil in it. R-134 does not "aerosolize" the older oil like R-12 does and carry it around the system lubricating the necessary parts... like your compressor. I'm guessing that your conversion kit had a can of R-134 oil with it.Did you inject it? Without R-134 oil in the system, the compressor will NOT get lubricated, causing it to seize(making it hot) and causing your belt to slip(making it hot too) I'm no A/C engineer, but I have read enough in the various A/C forums('cause sometime soon, I will be retro fitting my car too) to come to the conclusion that these A/C retro fit kits like they sell at WallyMart and such leave out alot of details and cut a lot of corners. - -Gary in Orlando On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 00:50, Robert Chase wrote: > So I went ahead and did my conversion today. My system luckilly was > devoid of R-12 so I went ahead and purchased the kit for the > conversion. I followed the instructions and got a somewhat good result > working A/C with some minor side affects :) > > When I started the first can Just a few seconds after I got the valve > completely open I heard a relay click and my compressor start up. At > first it was fine but then started squeeling. I was tempted to shut > down the engine but I had a can of R134 running into it and it was not > done and I had not planned for a mission abort so I continued to fill > the system. After I got the first can in the compressor stopped > squeeling. The squeel was more of a mechanical squeel like metal > against metal rather than a squeeling belt. > > Second can went in and the A/C started getting cold. I was excited. We > finished the 3rd can and did a parial can of the 3rd. The system takes > 2.2lb so I guestimated and Im rather sure I got it close. Capped > everything off and went for a drive. > > A/C was nice and cold especially once I got it on the interstate. I > drove for about 5-7 miles and then stopped at a truck stop for some > fuel. When I got into the truck stop we noticed an offensive smell but > thought it was one of the trucks. When I got the car stopped we had > smoke pouring out of the front grille. I went straight for the fire > extinguisher in the trunk and cautiosly opened the hood. The compressor > seemed to be really hot and was burning off some crustyness on the > outside of it. Im not sure if perhaps the compressor shaft or the belt > might need some lubrication since it probably has not been run in quite > some time. It was really smoking pretty well but when I turned on the > engine the smoke seemed to go away. > > Im guessing that the car probably has a small leak somewhere in the A/C > system and sitting all those years caused the freon to leak completely > out. The car seems to be holding the R-134 and the compressor (which > was replaced in 1991) seems to be working. Im wondering if there is a > way to lubricate the compressor clutch without greasing up the belt and > causing slippage. > > Anybody got any ideas? Im about to put a skull and crossbones sticker > on my A/C button so the unknowing does not burn my car to a crisp in the > event someone else has to drive it :). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:37:59 -0400 From: "Eurowerks" Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad From what I have been told about conversions, if you do not change every o-ring in the system, you are destined for a leak. The R-12 o-rings are synthetic, which means that they are porous vs. the R-134 o-rings being natural virgin rubber, which means they are not porous. The oil is what causes the problems. R-134 oil will seep through the R-12 synthetic o-rings, eventually causing a leak. I have also heard of volatility issues with mixing even minute amount of R-12 and R-134 compatible oils. I know that the new oils will retrofit with the old R-12 systems but not vice-versa. I have also read that lots of people have just put on the fittings and filled the system up with R-134. From what I have been told by a local rebuilder, it probably will work, only for a limited time. He says he has even seen a system that had been charged like that work for almost three years. Then the compressor locked up! Completely draining and flushing the system is the only way to avoid this, and to enhance the life of an old compressor. Professionally, having to back up my work with a warranty, I cannot just put on the fittings, I have to remove the compressor and flush it and all of the lines and evap. core and condenser out, replace the receiver drier and expansion valve, fill the system with the proper oil and then fully vacuum (the most important part) and then charge the new system with (80% of the recommended R-12 fill) R-134. If I were doing it in the backyard or at home and didn't care about compressor longevity, I would just do it like the retro kits say to.... Just a thought---especially since the thread is talking about squealing compressors! Kirk A. Gilchrist EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 eurowerks-at-qx.net / 888-522-0271 toll free ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #963 *********************************