From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #964 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, April 15 2003 Volume 01 : Number 964 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: Sunroof woes Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Re: a/c belt Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Shameless promotion New Dodge/Mercedes diesel product!! Re: New Dodge/Mercedes diesel product!! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:37:27 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad > If this was an older system that had R-12, then it had older R-12 oil in > it. R-134 does not "aerosolize" the older oil like R-12 does and carry > it around the system lubricating the necessary parts... like your > compressor. > > I'm guessing that your conversion kit had a can of R-134 oil with it.Did > you inject it? Without R-134 oil in the system, the compressor will NOT > get lubricated, causing it to seize(making it hot) and causing your belt > to slip(making it hot too) > I was thinking the same thing! If your system has been "open" to the atmosphere all the oil might have been pumped out. When you make the R134a conversion those kits assume that there is a certain amount of mineral oil left in the system and the oil they give you is supposed to be added to it. On a new system--new pump--I think you're supposed to add a certain amount of the old style mineral oil and then add the special oil to that oil. You might investigate that. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad Eurowerks wrote: > > >From what I have been told about conversions, if you do not change every > o-ring in the system, you are destined for a leak. The R-12 o-rings are > synthetic, which means that they are porous vs. the R-134 o-rings being > natural virgin rubber, which means they are not porous. The oil is what > causes the problems. R-134 oil will seep through the R-12 synthetic > o-rings, eventually causing a leak. *** I've heard that even the old hoses will cause problems. R134a molecules are, apparently, much smaller than R12 molecules. My 300D leaks out about one can of R134a a year. > I have also heard of volatility issues with mixing even minute amount of > R-12 and R-134 compatible oils. *** There are apparently two kinds of R-134A oils, "Ester", and "PAG". One of them is compatible with R12 mineral oil, the other not. I used the compatible one. When I converted my 300D, I changed out the compressor ( the old one was frozen ), and one hose ( which was missing ). I installed a new receiver/drier. I put in a replacement condenser ( the one in the car was the wrong part ). I flushed out the condenser with a flush I bought at the AC store. I bought a charging manifold, and used it to load up the system with R134A and oil. It's been over three years, runs like a top. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:54:13 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad My Compressor was working on borrowed time to begin with. Service records indicate replacement in 1991. A/C "sorta" worked when it felt like it. If I can spend $40 on the kit and get another season out of the A/C system I would not mind a rip and replace of ever component in the entire system when I have more time and another car to drive in the blazing Atlanta sun. My 2002 Honda Accord is sitting on a car lot right now looking sexy to potential buyers :) Agreed the kits are somewhat questionable, however one has to realize that I'm not pumping this R134 into a brand new compressor or system and im willing to take the risk of blowing my compressor. The conversion kit I bought includes oil in the cans of 134. gary wrote: >I just can't help but wonder... > >If this was an older system that had R-12, then it had older R-12 oil in >it. R-134 does not "aerosolize" the older oil like R-12 does and carry >it around the system lubricating the necessary parts... like your >compressor. > >I'm guessing that your conversion kit had a can of R-134 oil with it.Did >you inject it? Without R-134 oil in the system, the compressor will NOT >get lubricated, causing it to seize(making it hot) and causing your belt >to slip(making it hot too) > >I'm no A/C engineer, but I have read enough in the various A/C >forums('cause sometime soon, I will be retro fitting my car too) to come >to the conclusion that these A/C retro fit kits like they sell at >WallyMart and such leave out alot of details and cut a lot of corners. > > >-Gary in Orlando > > >On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 00:50, Robert Chase wrote: > > >>So I went ahead and did my conversion today. My system luckilly was >>devoid of R-12 so I went ahead and purchased the kit for the >>conversion. I followed the instructions and got a somewhat good result >>working A/C with some minor side affects :) >> >>When I started the first can Just a few seconds after I got the valve >>completely open I heard a relay click and my compressor start up. At >>first it was fine but then started squeeling. I was tempted to shut >>down the engine but I had a can of R134 running into it and it was not >>done and I had not planned for a mission abort so I continued to fill >>the system. After I got the first can in the compressor stopped >>squeeling. The squeel was more of a mechanical squeel like metal >>against metal rather than a squeeling belt. >> >>Second can went in and the A/C started getting cold. I was excited. We >>finished the 3rd can and did a parial can of the 3rd. The system takes >>2.2lb so I guestimated and Im rather sure I got it close. Capped >>everything off and went for a drive. >> >>A/C was nice and cold especially once I got it on the interstate. I >>drove for about 5-7 miles and then stopped at a truck stop for some >>fuel. When I got into the truck stop we noticed an offensive smell but >>thought it was one of the trucks. When I got the car stopped we had >>smoke pouring out of the front grille. I went straight for the fire >>extinguisher in the trunk and cautiosly opened the hood. The compressor >>seemed to be really hot and was burning off some crustyness on the >>outside of it. Im not sure if perhaps the compressor shaft or the belt >>might need some lubrication since it probably has not been run in quite >>some time. It was really smoking pretty well but when I turned on the >>engine the smoke seemed to go away. >> >>Im guessing that the car probably has a small leak somewhere in the A/C >>system and sitting all those years caused the freon to leak completely >>out. The car seems to be holding the R-134 and the compressor (which >>was replaced in 1991) seems to be working. Im wondering if there is a >>way to lubricate the compressor clutch without greasing up the belt and >>causing slippage. >> >>Anybody got any ideas? Im about to put a skull and crossbones sticker >>on my A/C button so the unknowing does not burn my car to a crisp in the >>event someone else has to drive it :). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:19:18 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Sunroof woes Joe wrote: >I bought a used Audi A8 for the wife this weekend and I think my Mercedes is >jealous. > >Any BTDT on the sunroof problem? > Chances are that the switch is the problem. Pull it and open it up. You'll most likely find that the contacts are badly burnt. Clean them up and put it back together. You may have to swap out the fuse, even if it looks good, to get it working. Make sure, when you take it apart, you are in an area where you can find the tiny parts that may come flying out. Do not take the switch apart while sitting in the car or you'll be sorry... At the base of the rocker switch are two ball bearings. Those are the parts that will end up on the floor. If you find yourself cleaning the switch every month or so, or the ball bearings end up in the carpet, the switch only costs around $25. As for the Audi. You might consider renting a garage to park it in that is located at least a block away. Then your CD might think you got rid of the A8 and return to normal. ;-) Jon '84 300SD 156,000+ "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:20:21 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad > If I were doing it in the backyard or at home and didn't care about > compressor longevity, I would just do it like the retro kits say to.... > Just a thought---especially since the thread is talking about squealing > compressors! If the pump disintegrates you may have a hell of a time getting all the metal bits out of the system. When I was looking to purchase a D-Benz I wouldn't consider a car that didn't have a functioning climate control system. It can cost more than the car is worth to fix one. One thing I noticed on my 240D, if the A/C idler pulley is misadjusted the belt will hit the vacuum pump. When adjusting the pulley, rotate it clock-wise, not counter clock-wise. At least, that's the way it is on mine. If the back of the belt is shiny then you've made this mistake! Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:23:42 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad > My Compressor was working on borrowed time to begin with. Service > records indicate replacement in 1991. A/C "sorta" worked when it felt > like it. If I can spend $40 on the kit and get another season out of > the A/C system I would not mind a rip and replace of ever component in If your pump disintegrates you'll regret that decision!! Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:26:54 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: a/c belt can't remember where the adjustment is for it... wasn't terribly hard if I recall correctly... john At 04:08 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >Heh heh, > >Tell me about it..... The A/C Belt is on the bottom of the engine..... >Looked tonight..... Ill wait until tomorrow and pull it into the sun and >put the hood into "engine removal mode" for more light and get under the >beastie to find the tightening mechanism...... I looked tonight and the >belt was looser than all the rest...... Im sure a loose belt with an old >compressor that has not been run in years is not a good combination..... > >Ill also get her a good wash and take some photos as well...... >R. > > > > > >john wrote: > >>At 03:02 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >> >>>john wrote: >>> >>>>At 01:12 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >>>> >>>>>Its scary when your unemployed Unix Engineer tries to fix his Mercedes :) >>>>>R. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>:) I'm planning on fixing my sunroof and driveline... any suggestions >>>>on what not to do oh fellow UNIX geek? ;) >>> >>> >>> >>>Hey John.... Did not forget about your request for photos :) Ill get >>>you some w126 sunroof closeups. >> >> >> >>sounds like a plan, I ain't opening my sunroof for a bit... it was >>downpouring >>here today... ;) >> >> >>>>BTW, I'm not "technically" unemployed, more "under"employed at this point, >>>>teaching two classes for City U and one for Everett Community College. Of >>>>course all three of those classes don't even pay the mortgage... :( >>> >>> >>>Not good.... I have been seeing some slight improvement in tech >>>jobs.... The companies are still in their "cheap ass" mode though. >> >> >> >>yeah, I know, I know... >> >>>>Now, go tighten your A/C belt... oiling that clutch assembly is not >>>>recommended... Kind of like loading Windows on your Sparc Classic... :) >>>>Just ain't gonna work... >>> >>> >>>Yes...... Thats does not even sound fun :) >> >> >>neither does tightening that belt... ;) >> >>john >> >> >> >>>R. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>john >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:30:26 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Smokin!! R134 conversion gone bad the kits have you install the compatible oil first... then the r134... the belts slipping have been the biggest issue for me.... john At 11:03 AM 4/14/2003 -0400, gary wrote: >I just can't help but wonder... > >If this was an older system that had R-12, then it had older R-12 oil in >it. R-134 does not "aerosolize" the older oil like R-12 does and carry >it around the system lubricating the necessary parts... like your >compressor. > >I'm guessing that your conversion kit had a can of R-134 oil with it.Did >you inject it? Without R-134 oil in the system, the compressor will NOT >get lubricated, causing it to seize(making it hot) and causing your belt >to slip(making it hot too) > >I'm no A/C engineer, but I have read enough in the various A/C >forums('cause sometime soon, I will be retro fitting my car too) to come >to the conclusion that these A/C retro fit kits like they sell at >WallyMart and such leave out alot of details and cut a lot of corners. > > >-Gary in Orlando > > >On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 00:50, Robert Chase wrote: > > So I went ahead and did my conversion today. My system luckilly was > > devoid of R-12 so I went ahead and purchased the kit for the > > conversion. I followed the instructions and got a somewhat good result > > working A/C with some minor side affects :) > > > > When I started the first can Just a few seconds after I got the valve > > completely open I heard a relay click and my compressor start up. At > > first it was fine but then started squeeling. I was tempted to shut > > down the engine but I had a can of R134 running into it and it was not > > done and I had not planned for a mission abort so I continued to fill > > the system. After I got the first can in the compressor stopped > > squeeling. The squeel was more of a mechanical squeel like metal > > against metal rather than a squeeling belt. > > > > Second can went in and the A/C started getting cold. I was excited. We > > finished the 3rd can and did a parial can of the 3rd. The system takes > > 2.2lb so I guestimated and Im rather sure I got it close. Capped > > everything off and went for a drive. > > > > A/C was nice and cold especially once I got it on the interstate. I > > drove for about 5-7 miles and then stopped at a truck stop for some > > fuel. When I got into the truck stop we noticed an offensive smell but > > thought it was one of the trucks. When I got the car stopped we had > > smoke pouring out of the front grille. I went straight for the fire > > extinguisher in the trunk and cautiosly opened the hood. The compressor > > seemed to be really hot and was burning off some crustyness on the > > outside of it. Im not sure if perhaps the compressor shaft or the belt > > might need some lubrication since it probably has not been run in quite > > some time. It was really smoking pretty well but when I turned on the > > engine the smoke seemed to go away. > > > > Im guessing that the car probably has a small leak somewhere in the A/C > > system and sitting all those years caused the freon to leak completely > > out. The car seems to be holding the R-134 and the compressor (which > > was replaced in 1991) seems to be working. Im wondering if there is a > > way to lubricate the compressor clutch without greasing up the belt and > > causing slippage. > > > > Anybody got any ideas? Im about to put a skull and crossbones sticker > > on my A/C button so the unknowing does not burn my car to a crisp in the > > event someone else has to drive it :). - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:15:39 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Shameless promotion Ok I really want rid of this thing. Will consider partial trades of any Mercedes that one might have lying around :) http://www.cars.com/search/used/cc/standard/results/single/ld/detail.jhtml?paId=123519108&aff=national&sellerView=true&src=&cid= John.... You might want to consider putting an ad here..... Its $35 and it runs until you sell. A friend of mine just listed his car and has already gotten 6 responses in 1 day..... Sold me :) R. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:27:21 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: New Dodge/Mercedes diesel product!! Well guys!!! I'm suprised that no one has mentioned this yet.... Am I on the cutting edge of news?!?! I doubt it.... Dodge has finaly marketed a Mercedes Diesel product here in the states. It's my dream vehicle!! Diesel Mini-Van! Why did they hit it so hard with the "ugly stick"?!?!! :( The new Sprinter from Dodge is here!! Check out www.dodge.com/sprinter I visited one of my local Dodge dealers that actually had two on the lot! One panel edition, one passenger edition... Pics at: http://my.execpc.com/~jslash/Sprinter/Sprinter.htm What do you guys think?!?! Jim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:27:36 -0500 From: Jan Guthrie Subject: Re: New Dodge/Mercedes diesel product!! Jim, The amazing news is that if you have ordered and had anything delivered by FedEx recently, this very vehicle has probably been to your house. They are using these for delivery vans ..... Pretty cool ... I wish they would allow the same engine in a car. Jan Jim Hoffman wrote: > Well guys!!! I'm suprised that no one has mentioned this yet.... > Am I on the cutting edge of news?!?! I doubt it.... > > Dodge has finaly marketed a Mercedes Diesel product here in the > states. It's my dream vehicle!! Diesel Mini-Van! > > Why did they hit it so hard with the "ugly stick"?!?!! :( > > The new Sprinter from Dodge is here!! > > Check out www.dodge.com/sprinter > > I visited one of my local Dodge dealers that actually had two on > the lot! One panel edition, one passenger edition... > > Pics at: http://my.execpc.com/~jslash/Sprinter/Sprinter.htm > > What do you guys think?!?! > > Jim/ - -- $:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x,88,x$:0^0:$x$:0^0:$x,88,x$: Jan Jan Guthrie Yacht Brokerage jan-at-buy-a-boat.com 262-553-1998 http://www.buy-a-boat.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #964 *********************************