From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #973 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, April 16 2003 Volume 01 : Number 973 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Diesel engine! Re: A/C Compressor help Re: Diesel engine! Re: A/C Compressor help Becker Radio Questions RE: Becker Radio Questions RE: A/C Compressor info Re: A/C Compressor info Re: Diesel Lists want to put Cummins B4 in FSJ Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:06:18 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Diesel engine! heh heh I love the line. "exquisite piece of junk" describes most of the disposable cars today well :) R. Vernon Tuck wrote: >I can contribute something to this discussion... > >Late last November, on ebay, I bought an '89 Dodge one ton dually with a >Cummins engine. I flew out to Colorado Springs on Continental Puddle Jumper >for $134 and drove it home. > >The truck itself is an exquisite piece of junk. But the engine is a sublime >work of art. > >VT >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Fiorentino" >To: "john" ; "Robert Chase" ; >"Diesel Benz" >Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:21 PM >Subject: Re: Diesel engine! > > > > >>Everything I have ever heard about Dodge trucks is that the only good >> >> >thing > > >>about them was if they had the Cummins Diesel engine. The bodies in >>particular (old power wagons from the early 50's excluded) are reputed to >>be terrible. >> >>Greg >> >>At 09:26 AM 4/15/03 , john wrote: >> >> >>>who said anything about a dodge body being tough???? >>> >>>I had a dodge 4x4 pickup... all the 4x4 rags referred to the >>>frame/body setup something along the lines of "spaghetti". >>>I've looked at the Durangos... cheap, cheap, cheap... I don't >>>see strength, or quality... >>> >>>Out of all the 4x4's I've had the dodge was about the worst >>>off-road... (it was not an old powerwagon, I know they have >>>a great reputation). >>> >>>john >>> >>>At 08:29 AM 4/15/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Sheesh even the dodge lies! >>>> >>>>"The words "Mercedes-Benz" and "high resale" go hand-in-hand. Always >>>>have, always will. Sprinter's Mercedes-Benz engine and tough, durable >>>>Dodge body combine to make a vehicle sure to have strong resale value. " >>>> >>>>Ok so like "dodge body"? That vehicle is a Mercedes Benz probably >>>>shipped without a grille. Im sure thats the ONLY difference between the >>>>Sprinter and its MB counterpart sold in europe. >>>>I love the way that they take credit for something they slapped a grille >>>> >>>> >on. > > >>>>R. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>john wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>now, if they'd put this in a Jeep, or at least offer a 4x4 version... >>>>> >>>>> >;) > > >>>>http://www.dodge.com/sprinter/low_operating_cost.html?context=sprinter-co >>>> >>>> >>>>>nfigurations&type=left >>>>> >>>>>john >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>>>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>>>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>Greg Fiorentino >>Vancouver USA >>gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net >> >>'84 300D Turbo >>'79 300TD >>'85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:39:40 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: A/C Compressor help At 08:07 PM 4/15/2003 -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: >I think for 1200 dollars I'd sell him the pump out of my car. >Paul actually, I've had cars that I'd include with the pump... ;) john > > sounds like he needs to start looking for a different mechanic... > > > > john > > > > At 11:01 AM 4/15/2003 -0400, Eurowerks wrote: > > >A brand new compressor (GM R4) lists for $352.00 and would cost you >$262.69 > > >shipped to your door. I am sure that you can find a comparable or better > > >price if you look around. These are very easy to come by. > > >This is also one of the easiest compressors ever on a Mercedes. I don't > > >know why your mechanic didn't want to do this. The 123 chassis is one of > > >the easiest A/C cars to repair! > > >Good Luck! > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:13:41 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Diesel engine! At 07:57 PM 4/15/2003 -0500, Vernon Tuck wrote: >I can contribute something to this discussion... > >Late last November, on ebay, I bought an '89 Dodge one ton dually with a >Cummins engine. I flew out to Colorado Springs on Continental Puddle Jumper >for $134 and drove it home. > >The truck itself is an exquisite piece of junk. But the engine is a sublime >work of art. >VT well put. an "exquisite piece of junk". :) Someone up here in Seattle put that engine into a Grand Wagoneer... it was a very tight fit... I think the CDI would be a much better candidate, but we'll have to see how tall it is... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:22:59 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: A/C Compressor help Dang!! And my pump is siezed too! Otherwise I'd sell the pump in a pretty white metal case ;) Jim/ > At 08:07 PM 4/15/2003 -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: > >I think for 1200 dollars I'd sell him the pump out of my car. > >Paul > > actually, I've had cars that I'd include with the pump... ;) > > john > > > > > > sounds like he needs to start looking for a different mechanic... > > > > > > john > > > > > > At 11:01 AM 4/15/2003 -0400, Eurowerks wrote: > > > >A brand new compressor (GM R4) lists for $352.00 and would cost you > >$262.69 > > > >shipped to your door. I am sure that you can find a comparable or better > > > >price if you look around. These are very easy to come by. > > > >This is also one of the easiest compressors ever on a Mercedes. I don't > > > >know why your mechanic didn't want to do this. The 123 chassis is one of > > > >the easiest A/C cars to repair! > > > >Good Luck! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:55:02 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Becker Radio Questions Ok so finally years of driving late model cars has caught up to me. I dont think I can deal with a cassette player anymore. I have been bringing my Ipod with me for music in the car but unfortunatly I have been forgetting to bring it at times and my tape collection is limited. Im going to do the CD player plunge :( I dont really want to change the radio but I cant stand cd changers and even then my radio is too old to support one. I have a friend in Germany that can buy me one of these and either ship it or put it in his suitcase for his next visit. http://www.becker.de/beckerCC21/www_root/ar03/templates/xxxxxAr03Produktdarstellung.jsp?language=En&doFlash=no&organisation=001&navSeq=87&navParent= Does anybody have any experience with late model becker radios? I could not locate any US dealers that carried this radio. I want to do a Becker radio because they are common in our cars and as well the illumination would match the dash well (it switches from red/yellow and is dimmable/tiltable to match the dull glow of my instrumentation). Im wondering about the following - -will the german model be a negative ground 12v? - -does any body know where to get the wiring harness to plug into the factory wiring harness without slicing and dicing? - -hopefully the display will be in english ? - -anybody got one of these in their dash already? - -anybody have a suggestion of a current model radio that will work in a 300SD and match the dash illumination without looking "rice esque" - -have I completely lost my mind? R. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:20:09 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: Becker Radio Questions While on this subject. Anyone have the radio harness for a 1983 300 SD. Previous owner hacked mine. It currently has no radio and the wife wants me to install one. Or a copy of the wiring schematic would be great - at least I could figure out which wires are which. WB - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Chase [mailto:beostar-at-sdf.lonestar.org] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:55 AM To: Diesel Benz Subject: Becker Radio Questions Ok so finally years of driving late model cars has caught up to me. I dont think I can deal with a cassette player anymore. I have been bringing my Ipod with me for music in the car but unfortunatly I have been forgetting to bring it at times and my tape collection is limited. Im going to do the CD player plunge :( I dont really want to change the radio but I cant stand cd changers and even then my radio is too old to support one. I have a friend in Germany that can buy me one of these and either ship it or put it in his suitcase for his next visit. http://www.becker.de/beckerCC21/www_root/ar03/templates/xxxxxAr03Produktdars tellung.jsp?language=En&doFlash=no&organisation=001&navSeq=87&navParent= Does anybody have any experience with late model becker radios? I could not locate any US dealers that carried this radio. I want to do a Becker radio because they are common in our cars and as well the illumination would match the dash well (it switches from red/yellow and is dimmable/tiltable to match the dull glow of my instrumentation). Im wondering about the following - -will the german model be a negative ground 12v? - -does any body know where to get the wiring harness to plug into the factory wiring harness without slicing and dicing? - -hopefully the display will be in english ? - -anybody got one of these in their dash already? - -anybody have a suggestion of a current model radio that will work in a 300SD and match the dash illumination without looking "rice esque" - -have I completely lost my mind? R. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:11:15 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: RE: A/C Compressor info Last year, I checked on a reman. I think it was $120 and included the clutch. That is for the GM/Harrison style(radial?). I ended up getting a used one from a family member(it was a freebie). It came off a, get this, A CHEVETTE! LOL - no kidding. A GM part on my MB - eeeewwww! Compressor/clutch was the same style. He he. You might try a GM dealer Dallas European - 972-242-1111 WB - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hoffman [mailto:jslash-at-execpc.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:23 AM To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: A/C Compressor help Dang!! And my pump is siezed too! Otherwise I'd sell the pump in a pretty white metal case ;) Jim/ > At 08:07 PM 4/15/2003 -0700, Paul Schwartz wrote: > >I think for 1200 dollars I'd sell him the pump out of my car. > >Paul > > actually, I've had cars that I'd include with the pump... ;) > > john > > > > > > sounds like he needs to start looking for a different mechanic... > > > > > > john > > > > > > At 11:01 AM 4/15/2003 -0400, Eurowerks wrote: > > > >A brand new compressor (GM R4) lists for $352.00 and would cost you > >$262.69 > > > >shipped to your door. I am sure that you can find a comparable or better > > > >price if you look around. These are very easy to come by. > > > >This is also one of the easiest compressors ever on a Mercedes. I don't > > > >know why your mechanic didn't want to do this. The 123 chassis is one of > > > >the easiest A/C cars to repair! > > > >Good Luck! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:50:03 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: A/C Compressor info > Last year, I checked on a reman. I think it was $120 and included the > clutch. That is for the GM/Harrison style(radial?). I ended up getting a > used one from a family member(it was a freebie). It came off a, get this, A > CHEVETTE! LOL - no kidding. I am not all that familiar with MBZ Climate controls as this is my first MBZ. But, for years I drove Audi 5000s ; they are very cheap, comfortable and fast. The 5000 has a long list of gremlins in its climate control system. That system is a Delco design and many parts came off various GM cars. I believe the controller was off a Cadillac. I suspected that GM made sure that Audi would get a bad rap by selling them a design that would fail frequently, or maybe that's just how GM designs things. I seem to recall the controller for the Audi 5000 climate control was 400 dollars from Audi and 50 bucks from GM. It costs a lot to ship the parts to Germany, pay duties, put the Audi label on it, put it in an Audi box and ship it back to the USA and pay duties again. The truth is that most car companies don't make all their parts, so MBZ buys an A/C pump from Sanyo and so does GM. It's just more efficient that way. I suspect if I really got down into the nitty-gritty of the MBZ climate control systems (at least the 80's vintage) I'd find similar parts to those in other cars. They were all designed with the same methodology and there are just so many ways to "skin a cat." When I was young--back before the invention of dirt--I spent a great deal of time pouring over a manual, I believe it was called the Hollanders manual, which cross indexed parts from one make and model to another. I believe that, for example, certain Jaguars used a Chevy differentials. Does this manual still exist? Even if an exact parts match is not available, I also suspect that parts from other manufactures could be modified to suit. Has anyone looked at this issue? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:19:15 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Diesel Lists want to put Cummins B4 in FSJ At 01:04 PM 4/16/2003 -0500, Jack B. Slack wrote: >John, >I've been thinking about putting a Cummins B motor (4 cylinder of course) >in to a FSJ. I thought you might be able to point me in the right >direction. Is there a list out there that deals with diesel tech and >retrofit tech? I thought you might know. Or does any body else have any >ideas on who to contact or where to go to start learning and researching. >Thanks, >Jack Jack, I think the smaller Cummins, the 3.9L 4 cylinder, I believe, is a nice motor, they use that in the UPS trucks. I looked at that a few years back when I did my first conversion from a 327 to a Buick 3.8L in my '67 Wagoneer. The problem with the Cummins TD's is manifold: weight, height, COSTS and noise. They are industrial strength units. Because they are direct injection units they are more efficient, but also much noisier! I think that the 3.9L would fit with less trouble in an FSJ then the 5.9L. However, I think you're asking for a lot of work, mods to the oil pan might be needed to clear the axle. I had brochures on the engines, not sure where they're at, if I can find them I'll take some pix and put 'em on my server. I think that with the right gearing we could use a Mercedes 3.0L I-5 Turbo Diesel or with existing gearing, a Chevy 6.5L TD or the 6.2L. I'd also look at some of the Ford (IH) Diesels as well. Weight isn't a big concern with a solid front axle and a frame, but height is. Take a look under the hood of a Dodge with that 5.9L, shoot, I've seen buildings that were shorter. ;) The issue really will be in selecting the correct torque, power band, gearing and tire size to move the FSJ around efficiently. If you get one of the V8 Diesels I think performance will be acceptable. The Mercedes or Cummins will work, but the performance might be less then spectacular. The new Dodge Sprinter has the new Mercedes CDI in it. The common rail direct injection Diesel technology might be the answer in a few years, after dumb americans tip those things over and total 'em. ;) I don't have the specs handy for the 6.5L TD or any of the Ford Diesels, but wouldn't mind looking at them. Anyone have the specs for them? ENGINE Specs year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm - -------------------------------------- 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp -at- 4,800 - 295 ft lbs -at- 3,200 <-- WJ 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp -at- 4,600 - 230 ft lbs -at- 3,000 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp -at- 3,700 - 245 ft lbs -at- 1,600 <-- Old Blue 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp -at- 4,500 - 224 ft lbs -at- 2,500 <-- little wag 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp -at- 4,400 - 320 ft lbs -at- 2,800 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp -at- 3,600 - 240 ft lbs -at- 2,000 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp -at- 4,000 - 300 ft lbs -at- 2,800 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp -at- 3,400 - 270 ft lbs -at- 2,400 Mercedes Diesels - ----------------------------- 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) (Ludwig) 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp -at- 4,400 - 97 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp -at- 4,600 - 168 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp -at- 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated)(Fritz) 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO)(sold) Good stuff... Love my Diesels... and love my Jeeps, want to combine the two (again) at some point... (had an '85 XJ with the 2.1L TD, 85 hp/115 ft lbs of torque, couldn't pull it's own shadow, but got 26/32 mpg... ;) My little 190D is doing pretty well, gets around ok despite the small engine, but the car is light... Putting a MB Diesel into an XJ might work better, they're about 1,000 lbs lighter then the SJ. :) later, john (dieseljohn) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #973 *********************************