From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #977 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Saturday, April 19 2003 Volume 01 : Number 977 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: 300 CD value Fwd: honda commercial, from off-topic... ;) Re: 300 CD value Re: Fwd: honda commercial, from off-topic... ;) gas guzzler nondiesel Re: gas guzzler nondiesel More 300CD help Re: More 300CD help Re: More 300CD help Re: More 300CD help Re: gas guzzler nondiesel 300D Valve Adjustment? Re: gas guzzler nondiesel Re: 300D Valve Adjustment? RE: gas guzzler nondiesel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:40:30 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: 300 CD value Waylon, I'm sure John will agree.... It's a 123 body and you wouldn't be very happy with it.... where is it??? ;) Jim/ '83 240D > Saw a 300 CD near the house. Asking 2750. Car is a little rough but all > there. Odo shows 126K but has not been working for a while. Wheels have been > replaced with some chrome wire wheels. It looks like a 2 seater disguised as > a 4 seater. Not much leg room in the back. I may try to get it. Any > comments? What chassis is it? 1985 model with Euro lights. > > > Waylon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:31:49 -0700 From: john Subject: Fwd: honda commercial, from off-topic... ;) >To: offtopic-at-digest.net >From: Luca >Subject: honda commercial >Sender: owner-offtopic-at-digest.net http://www.oliversadie.com/b3ta/Honda%20-%20The%20Cog.swf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:35:13 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: 300 CD value At 12:40 PM 4/18/2003 -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: >Waylon, > > I'm sure John will agree.... It's a 123 body and you wouldn't >be very happy with it.... where is it??? yes, let's see who might be able to get there first... ;) fwiw, I was looking at trading that '85 300CD down in CA for a Z car I finally sold for about $2,300. The 300CD's have a bit more value then a regular 300D. Nonetheless, sounds like a lot of work to make nice. But parts are affordable for the 123 series, it's a good mix of ride comfort and handling... but I'm really liking my 190D and thinking that if I can find a 2.5L TD in the same color I might move up a notch in the 201 world... ;) john >;) > >Jim/ > >'83 240D > > > Saw a 300 CD near the house. Asking 2750. Car is a little rough but >all > > there. Odo shows 126K but has not been working for a while. Wheels >have been > > replaced with some chrome wire wheels. It looks like a 2 seater >disguised as > > a 4 seater. Not much leg room in the back. I may try to get it. Any > > comments? What chassis is it? 1985 model with Euro lights. > > > > > > Waylon - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:10:16 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Fwd: honda commercial, from off-topic... ;) At 10:54 AM 4/18/2003 -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >john wrote: > > > http://www.oliversadie.com/b3ta/Honda%20-%20The%20Cog.swf > > >*** Uh.... The new Honda is a Rube Goldberg machine? > - Jerry didn't think of it that way... I figured they showed the "after" shot first... you know, time lapsed photography in reverse... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:00:01 -0700 From: "Jeremy Bowne" Subject: gas guzzler nondiesel Sorry for the non-diesel post. A mechanic friend of mine is selling a 80 450 SEL with 147,000 miles for 600 dollars. I know to avoid the cheap Benz, but I couldnt resist looking into this, so I checked it out. Paint is perfect except for a minor chip on the bumper. Its missing the right tail-light assembly. Interior is flawless, except for a few cracks on the rear seat leather. Its missing the 450SEL emblem. Been sitting for 3 years, so it needs new tires. Starts first time, shifts, etc, but when pressure is applied to the pedal, it starts to go dead. He says it needs a new distributor, which costs about $1000, and he cant afford to get it fixed, but if I bought and paid for the part hed put it in for free. Any input on this? Jeremy Bowne 80 240D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: gas guzzler nondiesel Jeremy Bowne wrote: > > Sorry for the non-diesel post. > A mechanic friend of mine is selling a 80 450 SEL with 147,000 miles > for 600 dollars. > He says it needs a new distributor, *** Sounds like a "stumble off idle" problem. I'd personally be surprised to find that it was due to a bad distributor, but I guess anything's possible. I would do a compression check before even considering it. In my experience, such things are more often due to carburetion, air blockages, or engine mechanical problems - the expensive kind. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:49:50 PDT From: Kay Gheen Subject: More 300CD help Hi all. I've seen a little 300CD traffic the past day or so and have a little of my own to add. Three weeks ago I got in a wreck with my 300CD and at the same time my UNIX computer had a disk crash, so I haven't been able to get on the list. I could use some help in locating some body parts for my 1980 300 CD. I need the following: 1. Left-front fender 2. A hood and grill 3. The cross member that goes between the two front fenders and supports the radiator. Does anyone know a good source for body parts? At this point in time I am thinking about fixing the car, but that is probably more of an emotional tie to the car than rational thinking. Possibly I need a good shrink instead of the body parts. Anyone that can offer help in either area would be appreciated. Best Regards, Kay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:58:18 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: More 300CD help Kay, I think I have a page on my site... http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz otherwise, Aurora Autowrecking, Benz Friends and there's a place down in Portland near St. Johns. I'm heading down to Portland next friday to install a server, if you want I can bring any parts back that you need... you call 'em, pay for 'em and I can haul 'em back up for ya. john At 03:49 PM 4/18/2003 -0700, Kay Gheen wrote: >Hi all. I've seen a little 300CD traffic the past day or so and have >a little of my own to add. Three weeks ago I got in a wreck with my 300CD >and at the same time my UNIX computer had a disk crash, so I haven't been >able to get on the list. > >I could use some help in locating some body parts for my 1980 300 CD. I >need the following: > >1. Left-front fender >2. A hood and grill >3. The cross member that goes between the two front fenders and supports > the radiator. > >Does anyone know a good source for body parts? > >At this point in time I am thinking about fixing the car, but that is >probably more of an emotional tie to the car than rational thinking. >Possibly I need a good shrink instead of the body parts. Anyone that can >offer help in either area would be appreciated. > >Best Regards, >Kay - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:27:25 -0400 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: More 300CD help I have all these parts from a '81 300D - does anyone know if they would fit? On 18 Apr 03, at 15:49, Kay Gheen wrote: > Hi all. I've seen a little 300CD traffic the past day or so and have > a little of my own to add. Three weeks ago I got in a wreck with my > 300CD and at the same time my UNIX computer had a disk crash, so I > haven't been able to get on the list. > > I could use some help in locating some body parts for my 1980 300 CD. > I need the following: > > 1. Left-front fender > 2. A hood and grill > 3. The cross member that goes between the two front fenders and > supports > the radiator. > > Does anyone know a good source for body parts? > > At this point in time I am thinking about fixing the car, but that is > probably more of an emotional tie to the car than rational thinking. > Possibly I need a good shrink instead of the body parts. Anyone that > can offer help in either area would be appreciated. > > Best Regards, > Kay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:17:43 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: More 300CD help shouldn't be a problem.... john At 08:27 PM 4/18/2003 -0400, Michael Aimino wrote: >I have all these parts from a '81 300D - does anyone know if they >would fit? > >On 18 Apr 03, at 15:49, Kay Gheen wrote: > > > Hi all. I've seen a little 300CD traffic the past day or so and have > > a little of my own to add. Three weeks ago I got in a wreck with my > > 300CD and at the same time my UNIX computer had a disk crash, so I > > haven't been able to get on the list. > > > > I could use some help in locating some body parts for my 1980 300 CD. > > I need the following: > > > > 1. Left-front fender > > 2. A hood and grill > > 3. The cross member that goes between the two front fenders and > > supports > > the radiator. > > > > Does anyone know a good source for body parts? > > > > At this point in time I am thinking about fixing the car, but that is > > probably more of an emotional tie to the car than rational thinking. > > Possibly I need a good shrink instead of the body parts. Anyone that > > can offer help in either area would be appreciated. > > > > Best Regards, > > Kay - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:06:01 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: gas guzzler nondiesel Jeremy wrote: >>Sorry for the non-diesel post. >>A mechanic friend of mine is selling a 80 450 SEL with 147,000 miles >>for 600 dollars. >> >> >>He says it needs a new distributor, >> Jerry replied that he doubted it was the distributor and I agree. However, they may be talking "fuel" distributor. Is your engine fuel injected? If so, that's probably it. I don't have your original message available, but I believe you mentioned a dollar figure of $1000. Those parts are expensive . The last fuel injected (gas) car I bought new was a '76 VW Dasher. Although I never had problems with the Bosch fuel injection on it, I did notice the price of the fuel distributor was over $700. That amazed me because the unit appeared to be just a "plenum", floating plate and a valve. $700 looked to be pretty exorbitant to me. I don't know how robust these parts are, but you may be able to get one from a boneyard for much less. In keeping with the spirit of our list, if you were driving a diesel, you'd have no need for a fuel distributor. ;-P Jon '84 300SD 156,900 mi. (or so) "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:27:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: 300D Valve Adjustment? Hi folks, My 300D is way overdue for a valve adjustment. I'd like to do it myself. I know that the job requires a couple of bent wrenches. My welding torch, big vise, and hammer are ready and waiting to produce the required tools. Does anybody know what size wrenches are needed? It'd be nice if I could have the modified wrenches on hand BEFORE taking the valve cover off. Thanks in advance, - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 08:37:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: gas guzzler nondiesel Jon Filina wrote: > > Jerry replied that he doubted it was the distributor and I agree. > However, they may be talking "fuel" distributor. Is your engine fuel > injected? If so, that's probably it. I don't have your original > message available, but I believe you mentioned a dollar figure of $1000. > Those parts are expensive . *** According to web data, the '80 450SEL used Bosch K-jetronic fuel injection. Here's an article I found: - ------------------ snip ------------------------------------------- C.I.S., or in Australia and USA, known as K-JETRONIC, is a constant injection system. This means that instead of injectors being pulsed by electric current, they are pressurised from the fuel distributor head. On idle there is small pressure with constant flow to the injectors. The spray is only to describe a dribble from the injectors. It is wrong if other mechanics tell you the spray pattern must be atomised. No, it is just continuously DRIBBLING fuel into the manifold regardless of ignition timing while the engine is idling. If the RPM of this engine is increased, then more air will be drawn into the combustion chamber, which lifts the air sensor plate higher up, or on other engine models, down. The sensor plate moves a metering pin in the fuel distributor upwards which allows more fuel to pass through the micro slit. The pressure and FLOW in the top cavity of the fuel distributor will rise automatically, where by, the thin stainless steel separation plate bends downwards. More fuel FLOW can enter into the injector lines and the injectors spray constantly the exact amount of fuel required to the engine. The injectors make a sound, similar to resonating pressure and flow discharge on a power steering pump. Depending on how high the sensor plate is being lifted, the discharge sound will change its pitch. At this point the atomisation of the fuel which has been discharged from the injectors is not very critical. I'm saying you can have a cone spray or 3,2 or even 1 way spray. What is critical on K-Jetronic is the VOLUME of fuel. Measured in test beakers, there must be as close as possible to an equal amount of fuel in all the other test beakers. - ----------------------------- endsnip ------------------------------------ Yup, that fuel distributor sounds like an expensive piece. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 11:47:07 -0400 From: "Michael Aimino" Subject: Re: 300D Valve Adjustment? 14mm. On 19 Apr 03, at 8:27, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > Hi folks, > > My 300D is way overdue for a valve adjustment. I'd like to do it > myself. > I know that the job requires a couple of bent wrenches. My welding > torch, big vise, and hammer are ready and waiting to produce the > required tools. > > Does anybody know what size wrenches are needed? It'd be nice if I > > could have the modified wrenches on hand BEFORE taking the valve cover > off. > > Thanks in advance, > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:14:12 -0700 From: "Jeremy Bowne" Subject: RE: gas guzzler nondiesel I do believe he was talking fuel distributor now, he showed an object under the air filter assembly, that he said was the faulty part, he also slightly revved the engine, while pressing down on the air plate (to draw in more air) and it revved higher... but without pressing down, the motor would almost go dead... he said that he replaced the distributor once, from another car, but the used one seemed to be bad too, "but at least the motor was able to idle". He's willing to put the part in for me for free, so it appears he's pretty confident in what's wrong. I just hope to hell, that he's right. Then again- $600 (for the car) $900 (fuel dist from Rusty) $179 (used taillight) $~100 (emissions, title, registration) $400 (tires) == $2179 www.nadaguides.com value is around $8650 (my opinion of the car, looks-wise) http://www.nadaguides.com/Values/ValueCategoryReport.asp?UserID=55071A33 23278&DID=37730&wSec=2&wPg=1207&CategoryId=12&MakeId=1115&VehicleId=3679 5&Year=1980&ColorId= (You'll probably have to piece that together) The investment seems worthwhile.. as long as everything goes smoothly ;) but then again, we're talking about cars.. so add another $1000 dollars. Jeremy Bowne 80' 240D - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 8:37 AM To: Jon Filina Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: gas guzzler nondiesel Jon Filina wrote: > > Jerry replied that he doubted it was the distributor and I agree. > However, they may be talking "fuel" distributor. Is your engine fuel > injected? If so, that's probably it. I don't have your original > message available, but I believe you mentioned a dollar figure of $1000. > Those parts are expensive . *** According to web data, the '80 450SEL used Bosch K-jetronic fuel injection. Here's an article I found: - ------------------ snip ------------------------------------------- C.I.S., or in Australia and USA, known as K-JETRONIC, is a constant injection system. This means that instead of injectors being pulsed by electric current, they are pressurised from the fuel distributor head. On idle there is small pressure with constant flow to the injectors. The spray is only to describe a dribble from the injectors. It is wrong if other mechanics tell you the spray pattern must be atomised. No, it is just continuously DRIBBLING fuel into the manifold regardless of ignition timing while the engine is idling. If the RPM of this engine is increased, then more air will be drawn into the combustion chamber, which lifts the air sensor plate higher up, or on other engine models, down. The sensor plate moves a metering pin in the fuel distributor upwards which allows more fuel to pass through the micro slit. The pressure and FLOW in the top cavity of the fuel distributor will rise automatically, where by, the thin stainless steel separation plate bends downwards. More fuel FLOW can enter into the injector lines and the injectors spray constantly the exact amount of fuel required to the engine. The injectors make a sound, similar to resonating pressure and flow discharge on a power steering pump. Depending on how high the sensor plate is being lifted, the discharge sound will change its pitch. At this point the atomisation of the fuel which has been discharged from the injectors is not very critical. I'm saying you can have a cone spray or 3,2 or even 1 way spray. What is critical on K-Jetronic is the VOLUME of fuel. Measured in test beakers, there must be as close as possible to an equal amount of fuel in all the other test beakers. - ----------------------------- endsnip - ------------------------------------ Yup, that fuel distributor sounds like an expensive piece. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #977 *********************************