From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #984 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, April 24 2003 Volume 01 : Number 984 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: late 80s/early 90s diesel comments NYTimes.com Article: Recipe for Car Power: Heat Vegetable Oil, Flip Switch and Go. Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... Re: Blue fuel filter? Re: Blue fuel filter? Re: Blue fuel filter? Re: late 80s/early 90s diesel comments RE: Blue fuel filter? RE: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... what is rare? (was)Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... Re: late 80s/early 90s diesel comments Re: Blue fuel filter? Re: what is rare? (was)Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:55:55 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: late 80s/early 90s diesel comments Tripped over a what looks like early 90s what-preceded-the-E-class diesel sedan, pissload of miles, but maintained well. Aside from being plagued with inexpensive electronics (as opposed to inexpensive vaccuum) and aluminum-head-syndrome, anything else I should be aware of with this model? The comments on the 190D I looked at were very helpful. Lots of things on that car didn't line up, and I didn't get a warm feeling from it, but still want a diesel benz... TIA, K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: mfrank-at-westnet.com Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Recipe for Car Power: Heat Vegetable Oil, Flip Switch and Go. This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by mfrank-at-westnet.com. Those of you in NY may have seen this in the Times. It's good that bio-Diesel is hitting prime time! mfrank-at-westnet.com /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Explore more of Starbucks at Starbucks.com. http://www.starbucks.com/default.asp?ci=1015 \----------------------------------------------------------/ Recipe for Car Power: Heat Vegetable Oil, Flip Switch and Go. April 22, 2003 By CHRIS DIXON LOS ANGELES, April 21 - "I wouldn't do this to a $30,000 car unless I was confident that it would work." With that, John Lin, owner of a Los Angeles fast-food franchise, opened the door of an opulent white Ford Excursion. Powered by a seven-liter turbo-diesel engine that delivers just 13 miles a gallon, this oversize S.U.V. seemed the quintessential environmentalist's target. Yet soon, Mr. Lin will be paying less to fuel it than he would pay if he owned a Toyota Prius, which supplements gasoline with electricity. As an added benefit, he will sharply reduce the pollution. Mr. Lin will not use a radical new mileage-boosting technology, but rather he will use simple vegetable oil, the same cheap, plentiful and clean-burning fuel that Rudolf Diesel used to power his first engine at the 1900 Paris World's Fair. Normally, a restaurateur like Mr. Lin would have to pay someone to haul off the 10 gallons of vegetable oil used each day in his fryers. The oil would be dumped in a landfill, or perhaps used in animal feed. Instead, Mr. Lin will filter his oil and pour it into a heated auxiliary tank on the Excursion. He will then start the vehicle on regular diesel, and after a few minutes, when the vegetable oil becomes more viscous in the heater, a manual switch will direct it to the diesel engine. From there, the only detectable difference will be the faint odor of French fries, and a noticeable lack of diesel stench. The change in odor, however, is not the only benefit to be gained. In 1998, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory released a study on a fuel called biodiesel. Essentially vegetable oil with methanol and lye added to aid cold-weather flow and remove glycerin, biodiesel results in fewer harmful emissions than petroleum-based diesel. Carbon monoxide emissions are reduced by 43 percent, hydrocarbons by 56 percent, particulates by 55 percent and sulfurs, a particular problem with petroleum diesel, are reduced by 100 percent. Typically, biodiesel fuel costs at least as much as regular diesel. But straight vegetable oil is essentially free; Mr. Lin says most restaurant owners are more than happy to get rid of it. And unlike biodiesel, it does not require methanol and lye. It does, however, require a fairly simple conversion system that consists of a vegetable oil tank and a fuel heater. A couple of years ago, after much online research, Mr. Lin bought a 1983 Mercedes 300SD Turbodiesel for $3,000 and got in touch with a diesel enthusiast, Charlie Anderson. Mr. Anderson, a farmer in Drury, Mo., had just founded a company called Greasel. For $500, Mr. Anderson sold Mr. Lin one of his first vegetable-oil-to-diesel conversion kits and coached Mr. Lin on installing it. "I said, If it blows up, it blows up," Mr. Lin said, "and I'm only out $3,000. But I installed the system, flipped the switch, and sure enough, the thing works." Mr. Lin found that vegetable oil led to no noticeable loss in power or mileage. In fact, he said, it smoothed the engine's idle. This came as no surprise to Mr. Anderson, who has now installed hundreds of systems in a variety of diesel vehicles - Volkswagen TDI's, tractors, large Dodge four-by-fours and even a used Greyhound bus. In addition, Greasel has sold hundreds more of its units to do-it-yourselfers. "Even if people are paying the same for this as diesel," he said, "it's just so much better for the environment. A dog can lick this stuff right off the ground." If biodiesel or straight vegetable oil are so much better as fuels, why aren't they in widespread use? Simple economics is how Russ Teall, a biodiesel refiner and president of Biodiesel Industries, sees it. "Basically the cost of virgin vegetable oil is too high," he said. "It costs from $1.65 to $2 a gallon. At the wholesale level, petroleum diesel varies from 60 cents to $1.20 in California." Mr. Teall also says a lack of transportation and refining infrastructure have discouraged a shift to biofuel. But Joe Jobe, president of the National Biodiesel Board, said this was changing rapidly as a result of smaller refining plants and a worldwide glut of vegetable oil. "The price of vegetable oils and diesels are beginning to come closer because of the growing demand for soy protein for food," Mr. Jobe said. "When you grind up soybeans, you get 80 percent soy meal and 20 percent oil." Furthermore, he said, biodiesel can also be made easily from waste restaurant oil. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/22/science/earth/22FUEL.html?ex=1052144625&ei=1&en=3dab58cb527eca8d HOW TO ADVERTISE - --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales-at-nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help-at-nytimes.com. Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:22:37 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... Dunno, If it runs and looks halfway presentable its worth at least $1000. The three pointed star on the hood only increases that value. Then again I have 3 cars right now that I am trying to sell that arent selling so what do I know :) Robert. 2002 Honda Accord EX Coupe 13k miles $18,995 make offer PLEASE SOMEONE ANYONE!!!!!!!! :) 1992 Plymouth Sundance Coupe 85k miles $1,200 1989 Chevy S10 Pickup Truck 173k miles $900 Jeremy Bowne wrote: >12k!? And I was going to sell my 80' 240D for $800. . . .. .well since >it has a three-pointed-star I should crack that up a few thousand >myself. >;) > >Jeremy Bowne >80' 240D 300,000+ >80' 450SEL 147,000+ > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] >On Behalf Of Robert Chase >Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 4:48 PM >Cc: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... > >YEP! > >Its a nice car. I looked at the photos. But not worth 12k. The engine > >compartment looks dirty the clock does not work and there is a tiny flaw > >in the paint. As well the color is not highly desireable. > >Some people see the three pointed star and go crazy :). Some of the SL >crowd is just as guilty. Personally I dont think the SL's are worth >what some of these people are able to get for them. They were extremely > >common and have nothing terribly special about their engineering. I >eventually want one but I wont pay some of the outrageous prices some of > >these people ask :). > >Robert > >Paul Schwartz wrote: > > > >>>*** Yeah, that's a little steep. Also, there wasn't much info on the >>> >>> >car. > > >>>The TD's OTOH, _ARE_ getting a bit rare. There's a low mileage one >>> >>> >>> >>> >>locally >> >> >> >> >>>that the guy is asking $13K for! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>And that car will not be sold at that price. Locally I've seen some >> >> >nice > > >>TD's for under 4K. >> >>Paul ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 2003 22:47:39 -0400 From: gary Subject: Re: Blue fuel filter? Ack! Let's not do that! That's all we need for some ignorant politicians to solve that eye-sore. With a wave of their Gucci pens, our beloved, older diesel cars and trucks could be instantaneously declared illegal. Illegal until we have some God-awful retrofit device installed which of course would be prohibitively expensive. Me, I would rather be the quiet and inconspicuous and not thought of. Generally(and hopefully always) we older diesel car folk are grandfathered from any such draconian laws. - -Gary in Orlando On Wed, 2003-04-23 at 10:05, Robert Chase wrote: > Hmmmmm, > If Bush's plan for clean diesel cars takes off and they eventually start > emissions testing diesel cars that will also be a complete clusterfuck. > I say we all intentionally modify our cars to belch out plumes of > disgusting smoke and drive in circles around our state capitols in > protest if that happens :). > > Robert.... ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 2003 22:58:58 -0400 From: gary Subject: Re: Blue fuel filter? Not outright banned, just legislatively muscled out. It was done by the use of "fleet" emission standards. You see, a car not only has to meet individual emission standards, the the whole mix of cars a manufacturer sells has to meet a fleet standard as well. Though a diesel is cleaner in many respects to a gasser, for particulates and NOx, it is higher. Now, this is stupid... Yes, a diesel produces more NOx, and particulates. It is also known that a diesel produces a constant level throughout it design life. Sure, a gasser produces less(for the first couple of years or so) Then it gradually produces more and more over it's life, well eclipsing that of the diesel. I read somewhere, though I can't say where off the top of my head, that over the design life of a gasser and diesel, the gasser will have produced something like 3x the measured pollutants. Even when a diesel will out live 3 gasser cars! - -Gary in Orlando On Wed, 2003-04-23 at 17:43, Paul Schwartz wrote: > > Yeah, > > > > I hope the laws don't end up changing and they end up finding some > > backwards ass way of testing diesel vehicles. > > Someone may want to correct me, but didn't California ban the sale of new > diesel cars? I don't see many newer diesels and I don't recall any new one > at the VW dealership. I don't know the answer to this question. > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 2003 23:10:08 -0400 From: gary Subject: Re: Blue fuel filter? Yep, The answer to Kalifornias air pollution woes! MTBE will create cleaner burning gas! Too bad it polluted something like 75% of all public water wells in the process. Sure that's bad, but what really pissed me off is that they(the politicians) know that this stuff pollutes ground water, but they won't bottom line the cessation of this stuff because "It will cause dirty air" Supposedly they can use Ethanol to give the same results, but are fighting over providers and cost. Huh? - -Gary in Orlando PS, other states/cities that use it are having the same problems, Chicago comes to mind. On Wed, 2003-04-23 at 19:40, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 07:29:06PM -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > > Do these emissions natzi's actually have some data that shows their > > stupidity works or is this just some lame theroy. > > For some reason, MTBE comes to mind. Thank you, environazis. > > K ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 2003 23:15:11 -0400 From: gary Subject: Re: late 80s/early 90s diesel comments I too am in the market for a 87-94 300D w124. I want to upgrade to something bigger/faster/better from my '86 190D 2.5 I haven't heard of any gotcha's for this body/engine. The aluminum head thing is a non-issue as long as you keep the cooling system in good repair. But I have heard to stand well away from the 3.5 603 engine. - -Gary in Orlando On Wed, 2003-04-23 at 19:55, Kevin Pekarek wrote: > Tripped over a what looks like early 90s what-preceded-the-E-class diesel > sedan, pissload of miles, but maintained well. > > Aside from being plagued with inexpensive electronics (as opposed to > inexpensive vaccuum) and aluminum-head-syndrome, anything else I should be > aware of with this model? > > The comments on the 190D I looked at were very helpful. Lots of things on > that car didn't line up, and I didn't get a warm feeling from it, but still > want a diesel benz... > > TIA, > > K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:07:35 -0500 From: "Richard Arnold" Subject: RE: Blue fuel filter? Robert wrote: > Hmmm, > > If some car > companies just said "screw you guys" and stopped selling certain models > in California the consumer pressure would be so great that eventually > the tree hugging hippies that control things over there would get a > clue. > > Robert. Most of the tree hugging hippies drive 1970's and '80's gasoline Volvos, which spew way more harmful stuff than any diesel. However, one of my very good friends in San Francisco, also a tree hugger, drives an '85 300D turbo because it "pollutes less". Honestly, he sold his Volvo to buy it! He is right you know. RAA '87 300SDL '73 Alfa Spider ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:17:37 -0500 From: "Richard Arnold" Subject: RE: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... When I was growing up, my dad had a 1955 220 with Euro lamps. Those things would melt the deck paint off the car in front. Cool thing though, they cut off right before the top of the trunk. On coming traffic never knew they were that bright. Too bad these are not standard on American issue cars. I know it's getting better here, but it's still not right yet. By the way Robert, your lamps and wipers look great! I saw your pics on John's site. RAA '87 300SDL '73 Alfa Spider > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > On Behalf Of Robert Chase > > Hey maybee I should ask $27k for my 82 300SD. Because as you know I am > the second owner of my car and it does have rare european lamps and > wipers that you dont find on any other 82 SD's > > Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:10:07 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: what is rare? (was)Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... > Hey maybee I should ask $27k for my 82 300SD. Because as you know I am > the second owner of my car and it does have rare european lamps and > wipers that you dont find on any other 82 SD's > > Robert. I always cracks me up when I see a car that is fairly common advertised as "rare." In truth there are very few "rare" cars in this world; to be rare there has to be fewer that 100 in the world, in my opinion. To be rare a car has to be so uncommon that when you see one you remark about it--hey, look at that. I have (half interest in it that is) a '66 Lincoln Continental 4-door convertible in very good condition and I don't think of it as rare--there were 3000 made. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:23:57 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: late 80s/early 90s diesel comments At 11:15 PM 4/23/2003 -0400, gary wrote: >I want to upgrade to something bigger/faster/better from my '86 190D 2.5 hey, I'd like to try out the 2.5L over the 2.2L 190D, is yours a turbo? too bad you're way down there in Orlando... :( john (on the other side of the continent, opposite corner... ;( - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:26:39 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Blue fuel filter? > That's all we need for some ignorant politicians to solve that eye-sore. > With a wave of their Gucci pens, our beloved, older diesel cars and > trucks could be instantaneously declared illegal. Illegal until we have > some God-awful retrofit device installed which of course would be > prohibitively expensive. We Kalifornians practically live in our cars. Actually, in SF many really do! Vintage, classic and hot rod cars have such a following in this state that there is a limit to what the pols can do. Our current smog laws exempt any car over twenty-five years old. There are bills in the legislature to change this and they are receiving tremendous opposition from the car community. They found out that gear-heads aren't pimply faced brats and assorted low-life's, but folks like me who make a fair amount of money. I once had someone seriously ask why I worked on my on my own car--"Paul, you make more than the shop rate, why don't you have them do it?" They just don't get it. If I hit the lotto I'd just have better tools and possibly (but, maybe not) a slightly better car(s) to work on and my own lift in the garage. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:29:42 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: what is rare? (was)Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... Hear hear as to overuse of "rare". Just like "elite" as in the "elite" Republican Guard. Now those are rare... ;o) VT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Schwartz" To: "Diesel Benz" Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 11:10 PM Subject: what is rare? (was)Re: on eBay -- 300TD for sale, Virginia... > > Hey maybee I should ask $27k for my 82 300SD. Because as you know I am > > the second owner of my car and it does have rare european lamps and > > wipers that you dont find on any other 82 SD's > > > > Robert. > > I always cracks me up when I see a car that is fairly common advertised as > "rare." In truth there are very few "rare" cars in this world; to be rare > there has to be fewer that 100 in the world, in my opinion. To be rare a > car has to be so uncommon that when you see one you remark about it--hey, > look at that. I have (half interest in it that is) a '66 Lincoln > Continental 4-door convertible in very good condition and I don't think of > it as rare--there were 3000 made. > > Paul ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #984 *********************************