From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1003 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Thursday, May 1 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1003 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... Re: Master Cylinder? Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... RE: 190D 2.5 turbo on ebay... Re: seven hundred ninety five bucks? Re: seven hundred ninety five bucks? Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... Re: Master Cylinder? Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... Re: Master Cylinder? Re: Master Cylinder? Re: Master Cylinder? RE: Master Cylinder? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:02:14 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... At 11:31 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, john wrote: >checked on '99 WJ prices... all over the place basically... decided >on $16,300. Need to get serious about selling it... still no job... :( >(but I am getting interviews... so there's hope) http://www.wagoneers.com/1999-WJ/ Oops, just noticed that the mileage is actually 69,250+... so decided to go with a lower price of $15,950. Hate to part with this thing, but not nearly as much as my wife does... still no job and all the prospects and interviews are for lower paying positions... :( Besides, the '85 190D is getting almost 35 mpg and the '87 xj with 243,000 miles is holding up well and gets decent mileage in town... soon (hopefully before the Lord returns or I leave this planet) my '83 J10 will be finished so we'll have a completely redone 0 mileage vehicle... Basically right now we need to find this 1999 Grand Cherokee Limited a good home... Nothing wrong with it... got 20 mpg driving it down to Portland last week. 100% amsoil synthetics and filters. just changed the oil even. :) this is one of the earlier versions on autotrader... not sure why the new price isn't showing: http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=129313013&dealer_id=&car_year=1999&make=JEEP&distance=10&max_price=&model=&advcd_on=n&end_year=1999&min_price=&address=98296&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1999&color=&cardist=9 john - ----------------------------------------------------- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside - superdawg (SJ) - 99 grand cherokee (WJ) (for sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) (243,000 miles) '75 J10 trailer http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J10-trailer/ '85 190D http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ john-at-wagoneers.com jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 06:44:33 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Master Cylinder? Thanks for the replies...here's what I've been able to figure out so far. First of all, opening the bleeders on the calipers will do nothing, the system is bone dry beyond the master cylinder. Second, there are definitely three chambers in this pump. The one towards the rear seems to be filling and pumping a bit, but the middle and forward chamber don't. When you press,the air in these chambers seems to compress and bounce back, so the master never gets primed. There is an allen screw which may be a bleed for the center chamber. I'm going to try bench bleeding the old master, and opening this screw. Hopefully, that's the ticket. Mike Frank At 12:14 AM 5/1/03, john wrote: >At 08:56 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, Rick Orr wrote: >>Maybe you have to "pressure bleed" this system? >> later, >> rick > >never seen one that required it... it sounds more >like the lines are blocked... > >john >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 09:22:32 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... Hmmm, Cars are moving slow right now for some reason. My Honda Accord should have already sold. I have the price listed at $18,995 now which honestly is way under book for a car with only 13k miles. On top of that my car is on the side of a really busy road and is a sought after coupe with a spoiler and good color scheme. Just got a call for my S-10 truck. Selling it for $900. Throwing on clothes now. Robert. john wrote: > At 11:31 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, john wrote: > >> checked on '99 WJ prices... all over the place basically... decided >> on $16,300. Need to get serious about selling it... still no job... :( >> (but I am getting interviews... so there's hope) > > http://www.wagoneers.com/1999-WJ/ > > Oops, just noticed that the mileage is actually 69,250+... so decided > to go with a lower price of $15,950. Hate to part with this > thing, but not nearly as much as my wife does... still no job and all > the prospects and interviews are for lower paying positions... :( > > Besides, the '85 190D is getting almost 35 mpg and the '87 xj with > 243,000 miles is holding up well and gets decent mileage in town... > soon (hopefully before the Lord returns or I leave this planet) > my '83 J10 will be finished so we'll have a completely redone 0 > mileage vehicle... > > Basically right now we need to find this 1999 Grand Cherokee Limited > a good home... Nothing wrong with it... got 20 mpg driving it down to > Portland last week. 100% amsoil synthetics and filters. just changed > the oil even. :) > > this is one of the earlier versions on autotrader... not sure why the > new price isn't showing: > http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=129313013&dealer_id=&car_year=1999&make=JEEP&distance=10&max_price=&model=&advcd_on=n&end_year=1999&min_price=&address=98296&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1999&color=&cardist=9 > > john > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside - superdawg (SJ) > - 99 grand cherokee (WJ) (for sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) (243,000 > miles) > '75 J10 trailer http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J10-trailer/ > '85 190D http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ > john-at-wagoneers.com > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:13:59 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: 190D 2.5 turbo on ebay... Heck, at the price it's at now I'd be interested... How difficult would it be for you to check it out? Give it a good kick. See how the turbo works, etc.?? Thanks Jeff! Jim/ '83 240D > That's funny, I live in Windham, NH... about 30 minutes away. If anyone's > seriously interested I can probably go take a look and make sure it's > "genuine". > > Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:44 PM > To: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: 190D 2.5 turbo on ebay... > > > why do these always show up on the wrong side of the country? :) > > john > > At 10:44 AM 4/30/2003 -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > >Yo John! > > > > Here's your machine! Too bad it's on the other side of the > >continent!! ;) > > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=241276074 2 > >&category=6328 > > > >Jim/ > > > >-- > >Jim Hoffman > >Oconomowoc WI > >'39 Allis Model B > >'53 Ford Golden Jubilee > >'?? Bolens Huskie Gardener > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 11:31:11 -0400 From: Don Campbell Subject: Re: seven hundred ninety five bucks? Greasel has an economy kit for $400. http://www.greasel.com Although you can build your own system for less, I really like the 3 in 1 hose setup they run.. http://www.greasel.com/online-store/scstore/graphics/3b.jpg Systems like GreaseCar and Greasel use SVO in the tank, although you could probably run bio-diesel in there too. The biggest thing about running SVO is you need to filter it before putting it in the car. - -don On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 05:26:13PM -0700, john wrote: > heater, filter, a few valves and a tank... hmmm... > let's see what I have out in my carport... ;) > > http://www.greasecar.com/products.cfm > > a 5 gallon tank should fit ok in the trunk... splice > into the fuel system, a valve... not sure if I need a > heater here... filter will cost the most... > > question is, are they talking about straight used veggie oil, > or home brewed bio-diesel type? > > If I were to plumb in right after the primary filter and filter > it real well, this might not be that hard to do... :) maybe > get fancy and set it up with a powered relay, shut the car off > and it drops to the main fuel line... power up, have it time out, > then engage... maybe would need to set it up for a shutdown sequence > to switch back to diesel before cutting the power to prevent coking... > > am I onto something here or am I missing something? :) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:55:17 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: seven hundred ninety five bucks? > Esterified bio-diesel is a direct replacement for petro-diesel. It does > not require separate tanks or complex plumbing. There is one caveat: > it can damage some fuel lines and seals in injection pumps. Mercedes has > always used materials that can handle it but some manufacturers have not. I might argue with that point. Old Mercedes' use a certain amount of natural rubber in their seals, o-rings and tubing. The residual methanol in bio-diesel will attack this natural rubber and destroy it. Commercially made bio-diesel doesn't have much methanol in it because they have the equipment to recover it--it's cost effective. Home made bio-diesel may not be so pure. Your mileage may vary . . . WVO/SVO is a better way to go on old Benz's Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 10:01:28 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... At 09:22 AM 5/1/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: >Throwing on clothes now. >Robert. please do that before answering the door... or email... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 10:03:01 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Master Cylinder? still sounds like a blocked line... john At 06:44 AM 5/1/2003 -0400, Michael Frank wrote: >Thanks for the replies...here's what I've been able to figure out so far. > >First of all, opening the bleeders on the calipers will do nothing, the >system is bone dry beyond the master cylinder. > >Second, there are definitely three chambers in this pump. The one towards >the rear seems to be filling and pumping a bit, but the middle and forward >chamber don't. When you press,the air in these chambers seems to compress >and bounce back, so the master never gets primed. > >There is an allen screw which may be a bleed for the center chamber. I'm >going to try bench bleeding the old master, and opening this screw. >Hopefully, that's the ticket. > > >Mike Frank > >At 12:14 AM 5/1/03, john wrote: >>At 08:56 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, Rick Orr wrote: >>>Maybe you have to "pressure bleed" this system? >>> later, >>> rick >> >>never seen one that required it... it sounds more >>like the lines are blocked... >> >>john >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >>------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 13:21:30 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... heh heh, Im trying for that full body tan. Although some people think im asking a little much from the sun :) R. john wrote: > At 09:22 AM 5/1/2003 -0400, Robert Chase wrote: > >> Throwing on clothes now. >> Robert. > > > please do that before answering the door... or email... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:20:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: Master Cylinder? john wrote: > > still sounds like a blocked line... > *** I had similar problems once, bleeding the system on my TR2. I seem to remember taking the master out and dunking it in brake fluid to get it pumping. It was a long time ago - maybe I just took it apart ( 1 circlip ) and filled it up on the bench. - Jerry > john > > At 06:44 AM 5/1/2003 -0400, Michael Frank wrote: > >Thanks for the replies...here's what I've been able to figure out so far. > > > >First of all, opening the bleeders on the calipers will do nothing, the > >system is bone dry beyond the master cylinder. > > > >Second, there are definitely three chambers in this pump. The one towards > >the rear seems to be filling and pumping a bit, but the middle and forward > >chamber don't. When you press,the air in these chambers seems to compress > >and bounce back, so the master never gets primed. > > > >There is an allen screw which may be a bleed for the center chamber. I'm > >going to try bench bleeding the old master, and opening this screw. > >Hopefully, that's the ticket. > > > > > >Mike Frank > > > >At 12:14 AM 5/1/03, john wrote: > >>At 08:56 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, Rick Orr wrote: > >>>Maybe you have to "pressure bleed" this system? > >>> later, > >>> rick > >> > >>never seen one that required it... it sounds more > >>like the lines are blocked... > >> > >>john > >>------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >>------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 13:23:18 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Master Cylinder? Well, it's not a blocked line. Here's what I've done. I bench bled the original master cylinder. It was just fine. I did have to bleed the port that's sealed with an allen screw. On the original, it's a 3/8" thread with a 10mm head, just for grins and giggles (remember that these are British cylinders). After having success on the bench with the original, I decided to try the same routine with the new cylinder already on the car...I installed a standard brake bleed fitting in place of the Allen screw, and did the deed. I now had some braking power, but very anemic. So I bled the wheels, and I made a discovery. Since the day I did my first brake job on my brother's Chrysler, I've always done the same routine...start bleeding from the right rear, the one that's farthest from the master. Well, doesn't work that way on a 190. If you start with the right rear, you can pump and pump, and nothing will happen. You have to start with the front brakes. Right front, left front, left rear, right rear. Makes no sense, but now I have brakes. I'm going to let everything settle, and go around one more time for good measure, but I think I'm done. Mike Frank At 01:03 PM 5/1/03, you wrote: >still sounds like a blocked line... > >john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:10:08 -0500 From: "Vernon Tuck" Subject: Re: Master Cylinder? I haven't been following this thread closely so my comment may be of little or no value... But many cars have a doo-dad called a brake pressure proportioning valve. A clogged one of these can cause all kinds of grief getting a system to bleed down, even if every other part in the system is new. You have been warned... bwa ha ha ha... Vernon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Frank" To: Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Master Cylinder? > Well, it's not a blocked line. Here's what I've done. I bench bled the > original master cylinder. It was just fine. I did have to bleed the port > that's sealed with an allen screw. On the original, it's a 3/8" thread with > a 10mm head, just for grins and giggles (remember that these are British > cylinders). After having success on the bench with the original, I decided > to try the same routine with the new cylinder already on the car...I > installed a standard brake bleed fitting in place of the Allen screw, and > did the deed. I now had some braking power, but very anemic. So I bled the > wheels, and I made a discovery. Since the day I did my first brake job on > my brother's Chrysler, I've always done the same routine...start bleeding > from the right rear, the one that's farthest from the master. Well, doesn't > work that way on a 190. If you start with the right rear, you can pump and > pump, and nothing will happen. You have to start with the front brakes. > Right front, left front, left rear, right rear. Makes no sense, but now I > have brakes. I'm going to let everything settle, and go around one more > time for good measure, but I think I'm done. > > Mike Frank > > At 01:03 PM 5/1/03, you wrote: > > >still sounds like a blocked line... > > > >john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:21:15 -0500 From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> Subject: RE: Master Cylinder? Mike, Helped a friend with his 190 brakes. We never could get them bled by pumping pedal or by vacuuming from caliper bleed valve. Local garage pressure bled them and told us that was the only method that works with ABS (or maybe just 190 or MB versions of ABS). There are tools that use spare tire air (at reduced pressure) to pressurize the reservoir. From what I hear, they can get messy but do the job if used carefully. Good luck! Sam - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Michael Frank Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:27 PM To: Diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Master Cylinder? Ok. I need some help here. I simply changed the brake hoses on the 190D. Well and good. Went to bleed the brakes, and no pressure. Didn't matter how much pumping I did, nothing was getting to the calipers. Did everything I could think of to prime the master, but no dice. Bought a new master. Put it in. Looks nice. No brake pressure. What gives? Is there some secret to bleeding these brakes? Or am I going to have a new vacuum booster in my future? Mike Frank ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1003 **********************************