From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1005 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Friday, May 2 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1005 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Hot stuff RE: The Eureka Moment, was, Re: Master Cylinder? Re: seven hundred ninety five bucks? Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... Re: Hot stuff RE: seven hundred ninety five bucks? Re: Hot stuff My 190d is spoken for Re: Hot stuff Re: we need a petrochemical engineer... Re: Hot stuff Abreviations clearified... RE: [Mercedes] 123 seat 84 300td Re: Hot stuff Re: Hot stuff Re: Hot stuff Re: Hot stuff Re: Hot stuff Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 18:54:45 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Hot stuff You are correct to be concerned. Like a gasoline car, a Diesel is temperature regulated by the thermostat. If it runs too cool, you will get a lot of undesirable carbonization. 60C is too cool. Assuming your gauge and sending unit are correct (check them with a thermometer or infra-red gun), you need a new thermostat. As for the electric fan, I've never seen it come on in any of my Benz's. I think it's tied into the air conditioner somehow, but it may well be a placebo. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:06:28 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: The Eureka Moment, was, Re: Master Cylinder? > I don't know if your master cylinders are set up the same way, > but doesn't the Benz engine look nice in the sunset? > > Mike Frank > And isn't that really what this whole lesson was about, Grasshopper? ;-) Glad you resolved your brake fluid issue, too. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:34:18 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: seven hundred ninety five bucks? I am considering an Elsbeth system; while they are more expensive, I think they are better engineered. With the Elsbeth system you only need one tank and can run anything from D2 to WVO. There's going to be a seminar in the East Bay (Oakland-SF East Bay) in June and one of the engineers from Elsbeth will be there. If anyone one's interested I'll get you in contact with the folks who are doing it. Yes, it's about 800 bucks, but it might be worth it. Stay tuned to this bat channel for more information. Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Williams" <1sam-at-io.com> To: "Paul Schwartz" ; Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: RE: seven hundred ninety five bucks? > Paul, > > Thanks for the warning. > > I was repeating what I gleaned from many sites. Since I have no direct > experience with effects of home-made esterified bio-diesel, cannot verify. > Most examples on web bio-diesel sites are 123 series MB diesels (5 cyl, 3 > Liter). Maybe earlier versions would be more risky. I can state that > my earlier (115 series 300D) MB has experienced no problem from WVO, > after several years. > > Sam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:37:49 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... We are using the word "enjoy" in a sarcastic manner, one hopes. Paul > But then the rotorheads at the airport would be the only ones enjoying > the show (just kidding!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:37:49 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] 99 wj pricing - change that... We are using the word "enjoy" in a sarcastic manner, one hopes. Paul > But then the rotorheads at the airport would be the only ones enjoying > the show (just kidding!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:51:06 -0700 From: "Paul Schwartz" Subject: Re: Hot stuff >> new thermostat. If you haven't replaced the coolant in a long while, now is > not a bad time to do it. Check the hoses while you are looking at the cooling > system. I have a new thermostat which I am about to install; I have been prevented from doing this by an attack of acute laziness--this weekend, oil change and new thermostat, I promise. My question is on choice of coolants. I have heard dire warnings about using random anti-freeze/coolant products and that the only acceptable coolant is that phosphate-free pink stuff you have to pay the MBZ dealer a small fortune for. What is the real truth? Phosphate-free or does it matter? Being that the stuff in there now is green, should I panic? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 17:38:50 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: RE: seven hundred ninety five bucks? <> Sam: What ratio do you use? 5 gal. into what size tank? What kind of filter and setup do you use? I picture some kind of setup such as John describes with 2 containers and a pump in my garage. Perhaps 55 gal. drums with standard fittings. Using a funnel and filter papers doesn't sound too fun! Greg Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA gfior-at-dslnorthwest.net '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 F-350 6.9 crew cab ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 20:34:20 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Hot stuff The truth is that the water matters more than the antifreeze. European manufacturers recommend phosphate free because of the hardness of the water in parts of Europe. Use distilled or deionized water and your favorite antifreeze. Mike Frank At 07:51 PM 5/1/03, Paul Schwartz wrote: >My question is on choice of coolants. I have heard dire warnings about >using random anti-freeze/coolant products and that the only acceptable >coolant is that phosphate-free pink stuff you have to pay the MBZ dealer a >small fortune for. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:21:09 -0700 From: "DerickAA" Subject: My 190d is spoken for The red car has been spoken for. I will let the buyer decide if they wish to reveal themselves. :) Thanks for those of you that were interested. Derick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 21:32:17 -0400 From: Robert Chase Subject: Re: Hot stuff Hmmm, Whell at least Im not going to overheat anytime soon :)...... Im going to be bringing my car in for a "big service" sometime within the next month or so Ill just add that to the list. Im very much used to monitoring tempatures closely so even if I do start to overheat Ill see it and pull over for a nice cool down before we get too hot. Sorta my manual version of cowl flaps :) Robert.... Alec Cordova wrote: >>Ok, >> >>So I have been watching my tempature guage lately and its been changing >>in relation to the ambiant air tempature which worrys me slightly. >>While this is normal in aircraft engines Im wondering if its a normal >>diesel engine charactaristic. During a cold day about 50 degrees the >>tempature stays around 60c and on a warm day like today where the >>tempature reached 80f the tempature guage climbed well above 80c. I >>notice my electric fan on the front has not been coming on. In fact I >>dont think I have ever heard it come on. All the gas cars I have ever >>owned heat up to a certain tempature and stay there regardless of the >>speed of the car or the outside air temp. >> >>Should I be watching the road rather than my instrument panel? :) >> >>Robert. >> >> > >You should be watching in the mail for the new thermostat you will order >right away. > >Your car should climb to, and generally not go below, around 85 or 87 >degrees C. > >When it's very hot and humid out, and your AC is on, and you're stuck in >stop and go traffic, it might climb over 100 C. > >Not a problem until you hit the red zone on the gauge, which I believe is >above 120 C. I think the fans don't even kick in until slightly above 100. > >Alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 21:46:09 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: we need a petrochemical engineer... At 03:23 PM 4/30/2003 -0700, Dan J wrote: >You may want to think twice about using used motor oil, it has lots of >acid and other nasty stuff in it, may not want to run that through your >fuel system. this is true... >Heavy duty oils can handle the acids OK, and I am not sure what burning >synthetic oils may do to the combustion part of the engine. nice thing about synthetic is you don't have to change it as often... less mess... I'm sure it'd burn ok, and probably have less trouble with acid. It has a much higher flash point then dino oil. But your point is well taken about used motor oil, you'd have to neutralize the acid, do some ph balancing to ensure you're not etching the pump. ;) dieseljohn >I am _not_ a chemist, nor do I play one on the 'net. >diesel dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 02:28:05 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: Hot stuff Paul wrote: >I have a new thermostat which I am about to install; I have been prevented >from doing this by an attack of acute laziness--this weekend, oil change and >new thermostat, I promise. > >My question is on choice of coolants. I have heard dire warnings about >using random anti-freeze/coolant products and that the only acceptable >coolant is that phosphate-free pink stuff you have to pay the MBZ dealer a >small fortune for. > >What is the real truth? Phosphate-free or does it matter? Being that the >stuff in there now is green, should I panic? > With your W123, it really doesn't matter. If you change the antifreeze every 2 years, and use a quality product, the cooling system doesn't seem to care. I had the "evil" green stuff in my 240D for 4 years and never had any cooling issues. I bought the approved coolant from the dealer just before a drunk in an SUV decided I wanted a 300SD and never used it. It is now in my SD and I feel better just because it's the approved coolant. My mechanic uses Peak coolant and not the MB approved one. He won't use Prestone because of the leak stopping additives tend to clog the system. He had no problem refilling my system with the MB brand, though. His choice is based on price and both Peak and the MB brands are good coolants. If you think about it, though, what's the difference in price? If I remember correctly, a gallon of Peak was around $8 and I paid $14-16 from MB. You are not talking big bucks here. I felt better with the approved fluid so I bought it. The difference is negligible. And, the MB coolant color seems to vary. Mine is a bit on the silver side, others have been reported to be orange and some pink.... Go with whichever you are comfortable with. Jon '84 300SD "Bruno" With MB approved coolant and a flakey temp. sensor... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:54:41 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Abreviations clearified... OK guys... Being the amature that I am at this vegetable oil stuff I'm not up on the TLA's. Let me see if I've gotten this right: SVO = Straight Vegetable Oil?? WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil?? In my quest for learning I ran across this discussion board in England... http://www.goatindustries.co.uk/forum/ Jim/ '83 240D - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:24:07 -0700 From: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: [Mercedes] 123 seat 84 300td Dave Sorry, I am unsure about other model seats fitting into your 123. I am a relative neophyte to the Benz brand. Perhaps the lists will know? Randy - -----Original Message----- From: dave wong [mailto:dave2001auto-at-yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:19 PM To: REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com Subject: RE: [Mercedes] 123 seat 84 300td Did I mention that the passanger seat's horse hair is also powder? I changing with a junker, the 123 are all well -- old. Which new model car seats will also fit? 124 series? or ?? Dave REisenhardt-at-AlienTechnology.com wrote: Dave I just swapped my passenger and driver seat cushions. Works great (unless you happen to be the passenger). Randy '87 300 SDL 294k - -----Original Message----- From: dave wong [mailto:dave2001auto-at-yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:06 PM To: MERC list Subject: [Mercedes] 123 seat 84 300td The ole 84 300td has a bad driver seat -- broken seat spring, mushy back rest spring and powderized horse hair. Any good place to get a replacement? Might be cheaper just to replace the entire seat instead or trying to repair it. The spring has poked a hole throught the leather. Dave. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. - --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html - --- _______________________________________________ mercedes-at-mercedesmailinglist.com http://mail.mercedesmailinglist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes _____ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:59:39 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Hot stuff I'm using the amsoil Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant here's a scan of the tech sheet... I think it said something about meeting Mercedes tests or standards... http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-2.jpg suggested retail is $15.25/gallon... it's basically non-toxic and is designed to prevent cavitation and corrosion... Looks to be in the same price range as the MB approved stuff... It's also designed, of course, to last longer. The Sierra stuff that came out had a problem with breaking down, destroyed a friend's big Diesel rig. The amsoil stuff didn't have that problem. I've been using it for years on both diesel and gas engines without problems. here's the blurb I found on line: AMSOIL combines the benefits of biodegradability, low toxicity and all-climate protection. AMSOIL Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant is safer for kids and pets than ethylene glycol coolants, which are sweet tasting and extremely toxic. Product Code: ANF This product is universal in application and is ideal for use in both gas and diesel power autos, RVs, and heavy-duty trucks of all size. AMSOIL Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant is completely compatible with EG coolants. Improved protection against liner pitting. Resistance to corrosion of aluminum, iron surfaces and solder points. Freeze point can be checked with a PG (not an EG) hydrometer or refractometer, or with a color-coded paper strip (available from AMSOIL, product code G-1165 (pack of 6) or G-1465 (pack of 50). Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications: Automotive and light Duty Service (ASTM D-5216 & ASTM D-2570) Heavy Duty Service (ASTM D-6211 & TMC RP330) At 02:28 AM 5/2/2003 -0500, Jon Filina wrote: >better just because it's the approved coolant. > >My mechanic uses Peak coolant and not the MB approved one. He won't use >Prestone because of the leak stopping additives tend to clog the system. >He had no problem refilling my system with the MB brand, though. His >choice is based on price and both Peak and the MB brands are good coolants. > >If you think about it, though, what's the difference in price? If I >remember correctly, a gallon of Peak was around $8 and I paid $14-16 from >MB. You are not talking big bucks here. I felt better with the approved >fluid so I bought it. The difference is negligible. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:13:20 US/Central From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: Hot stuff > I'm using the amsoil Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant > here's a scan of the tech sheet... I think it said something > about meeting Mercedes tests or standards... > http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-1.jpg > http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-2.jpg > I didn't see anything in the graphics about meeting Mercedes standards. Is there another datasheet? Alec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:17:07 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Hot stuff after the second image downloaded... I didn't see it either... I've seen the Mercedes test data on oil sheets and such... guess we'd have to see if the ASTM tests are the ones MB refers to or not... looked at the bottle... noticed it said phosphate free and low silicate... silicate was the bad thing in Sierra if I understand correctly... nothing about MB on the label either... :( just those two ASTM standards... john At 02:13 PM 5/2/2003 +0000, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > > I'm using the amsoil Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant > > here's a scan of the tech sheet... I think it said something > > about meeting Mercedes tests or standards... > > http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-1.jpg > > http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-2.jpg > > > >I didn't see anything in the graphics about meeting Mercedes standards. Is >there another datasheet? > >Alec - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 15:56:07 -0400 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: Hot stuff John: Can you find out the basic composition of the anti-corrosion package? Is it OAT, Silicate, Phosphate, or other? I'm very leery of long-life anti-freezes, especially OAT-based (Dexcool) stuff. Mike Frank At 02:59 PM 5/2/03, john wrote: >I'm using the amsoil Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant >here's a scan of the tech sheet... I think it said something >about meeting Mercedes tests or standards... >http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-1.jpg >http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-2.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:11:52 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: Hot stuff I'll check with the engineers at amsoil... in the middle of midterms right now, job interviews, etc... ping me next week... sorry to put you off... :) john At 03:56 PM 5/2/2003 -0400, Michael Frank wrote: >John: > Can you find out the basic composition of the anti-corrosion > package? Is it OAT, Silicate, Phosphate, or other? I'm very leery of > long-life anti-freezes, especially OAT-based (Dexcool) stuff. >Mike Frank > >At 02:59 PM 5/2/03, john wrote: >>I'm using the amsoil Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant >>here's a scan of the tech sheet... I think it said something >>about meeting Mercedes tests or standards... >>http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-1.jpg >>http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ANTI-FREEZE/antifreeze-2.jpg - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1005 **********************************