From: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net (diesel-benz-digest) To: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #1009 Reply-To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Sender: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Errors-To: owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Precedence: bulk diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, May 7 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1009 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? Re: fsj: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: comparing 300s and 240s Re: My 190d is spoken for Re: xj: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? Re: My 190d is spoken for Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:19:52 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? You're actually gonna take that nice CD and steal the engine for a JEEP?!?! Put a flathead six in there like it's supposed to have! ;) Jim/ > Since SuperDawg ('83 J10 Stepside) is still in a number of pieces > and I may have located a possible 3.0L Turbo Diesel that is running > (should be rebuilt), and I've always wanted a Diesel Full Size Jeep... > > Would a 1984 3.0L Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel engine actually > push a 1983 J10 stepside with 4.10 gears and 235's... and how > hard would it be to mate the Benz 3.0L engine to the Aisin Warner > 4speed Automatic normally found in a 1996 Jeep Cherokee? Or would > it mate to the old T-5 that came in my J10? (prefer an Automatic > and don't want the mercedes AT, prefer to leave Rube Goldberg setups > off of SuperDawg. ;) Already spent money building a custom adapter > to mate the AW4 to the NP219, so sticking with the AW4 is the best > plan... > > ENGINE SPECS - MISC > ENGINE Specs > year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm > -------------------------------------- > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current > 96 - XJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 <-- superdawg current > plan > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) > > > From the specs the stock engine had 115hp/210fts of torque, the 3.0L TD > has 10 more hp, but about 40 less ft lbs of torque... Of course the 4.0L that > I have seems to offer so much more in the way of power... > > BUT, if SuperDawg at the Turbo Diesel with the Aisin Warner 4 speed automatic > and the gearing/tires I've selected he should get over 20mpg in town and offer > acceptable performance for Seattle area traffic... :) > > Thoughts? > > Remember I'm driving a 190D with a 2.2L right now and find it acceptable... > would like more power, but where would I go with it anyway? > I'd just get to the traffic bottlenecks faster... ;) > > 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) > - daily driver now... ;) > > john meister > > ----------------------------------------------------- > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside - superdawg (SJ) > - 99 grand cherokee (WJ) (for sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) (243,000 miles) > '75 J10 trailer http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J10-trailer/ > '85 190D http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ > john-at-wagoneers.com > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:27:20 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? At 02:19 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: >You're actually gonna take that nice CD and steal the engine for >a JEEP?!?! Put a flathead six in there like it's supposed to have! >;) >Jim/ :) what nice CD? ;) you didn't see the pictures of it did you? It needs a lot of TLC... weatherstripping and so on... :) what is nice about it though is that it's straight, rust free and affordable, but the engine needs to be rebuilt... or should be anyway... I'm pretty sure it'd make it up I-5 to home, or at least to central Washington where my J10 is in pieces right now... just not sure I want to go with a Diesel in my J10 or not... if I do it won't be much use for serious hauling with the trailer I've built for it... decision, decisions... of course that "nice" CD could be used to rebuild and update another wrecked CD I know of up here... ;) projects, projects... no time, no money... but plenty of hare-brained ideas... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 12:32:09 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? At 12:10 PM 5/7/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 10:20:22AM -0700, john wrote: > > Since SuperDawg ('83 J10 Stepside) is still in a number of pieces > > and I may have located a possible 3.0L Turbo Diesel that is running > > (should be rebuilt), and I've always wanted a Diesel Full Size Jeep... > >Well, that didn't take long for this reply to come. :) :) and yours neither... ;) > > Would a 1984 3.0L Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel engine actually > > push a 1983 J10 stepside with 4.10 gears and 235's... and how > > hard would it be to mate the Benz 3.0L engine to the Aisin Warner > > 4speed Automatic normally found in a 1996 Jeep Cherokee? Or would > > it mate to the old T-5 that came in my J10? (prefer an Automatic > > and don't want the mercedes AT, prefer to leave Rube Goldberg setups > > off of SuperDawg. ;) Already spent money building a custom adapter > > to mate the AW4 to the NP219, so sticking with the AW4 is the best > > plan... > > > > ENGINE SPECS - MISC > > ENGINE Specs > > year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm > > -------------------------------------- > > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- current > > 96 - XJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 <-- superdawg > current > > plan > > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) > >You are going to miss the 40 or 50 ft-lbs. That is literally almost two >cylinders of your 190D. :) SuperDawg had 210 ft lbs... 40 ft-lbs would be a bit to lose... :( The 4.0L actually provides a closer amount to the 360... 220 ftlbs vs. 245. My 360's weren't fast, but they had "non-stop" torque. :) reality is that this doesn't make sense... at least not from a torque perspective. pursuing the 4.0L that I have makes more sense... which means the 3.0L and other parts could be used to fix the other CD... problem is I don't have money to buy either one, and little time to start another project... :( > > From the specs the stock engine had 115hp/210fts of torque, the 3.0L TD > > has 10 more hp, but about 40 less ft lbs of torque... Of course the 4.0L > > that > > I have seems to offer so much more in the way of power... > >With trucks, you can't compare horsepower numbers, especially gas vs. diesel. >Torque is what is needed in a truck. A 258 in my 74 cherokee is adequate, >but I wouldn't want any less than that. > > > BUT, if SuperDawg at the Turbo Diesel with the Aisin Warner 4 speed > > automatic and the gearing/tires I've selected he should get over 20mpg in > > town and offer acceptable performance for Seattle area traffic... :) > > > > Thoughts? > >I think you're crazy for thinking it. For a grand, you could locate a running >blazer with a shot body that has a 700R4 and running 6.2, and that would be >far better than a 3.0L benz -for what you are doing-. Throwing low gears into >a diesel isn't quite what you want, because diesels don't really appreciate >being revved high for long periods of time. not likely to find one up here with a bad body... and I'm not sure I'd want a 6.2, a 6.5L maybe... The 3.0L Mercedes and even my 2.2L seem quite happy at 3,000 to 3,500 rpm... all day... very responsive in that range... they wind up nicely and don't complain, same with the Rabbit Diesels I've had... high-revving Diesels... >You can also sell off the adapter, or redrill it for a 700R4. I'm buried in the adapter... we were going to do the machine work ourselves and it just didn't work out so we paid someone for it... could have bought an NP242 for the costs... oh well... > > Remember I'm driving a 190D with a 2.2L right now and find it acceptable... > > would like more power, but where would I go with it anyway? > > I'd just get to the traffic bottlenecks faster... ;) > > > > 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) > > - daily driver now... ;) > >Don't forget how much lighter a 190D is than an SJ. My 77 cherokee is 4650 on >a truck scale, no driver, no gear, and about five gallons of gas. You may be a >LITTLE lighter with the J10 as you have less metal and glass, but not THAT >much lighter. tipped the scales at 4,100 lbs. >Btw, thanks for the numbers on the 85 190D. Those could come in handy... ;) you're welcome. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 12:46:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Anaeis N Subject: comparing 300s and 240s What are the differences between the early '80s 300s and 240s, both mechanically and stylistically? Which would you reccomend? Do the 240s come in turbo? I saw a silver one on the highway this morning and thought it looked a bit sportier than than the 300s I see around all the time. Rebecca Weisser The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 12:54:11 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s the 240D and 300Ds were the same bodywise... not sure why a 240D would look any sportier then the same 300D in silver... no turbo's in the US on the 240D. john At 12:46 PM 5/7/2003 -0700, Anaeis N wrote: >What are the differences between the early '80s 300s and 240s, both >mechanically and stylistically? Which would you reccomend? Do the 240s >come in turbo? I saw a silver one on the highway this morning and thought >it looked a bit sportier than than the 300s I see around all the time. >Rebecca Weisser >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:02:53 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s John, You forgot to indicate which you would recommend ;) I'd recommend a 300D! I have a 240D ;) Jim/ > the 240D and 300Ds were the same bodywise... not sure > why a 240D would look any sportier then the same 300D in silver... > > no turbo's in the US on the 240D. > > john > > At 12:46 PM 5/7/2003 -0700, Anaeis N wrote: > >What are the differences between the early '80s 300s and 240s, both > >mechanically and stylistically? Which would you reccomend? Do the 240s > >come in turbo? I saw a silver one on the highway this morning and thought > >it looked a bit sportier than than the 300s I see around all the time. > >Rebecca Weisser > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 13:10:32 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s At 04:02 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: >John, > You forgot to indicate which you would recommend ;) >I'd recommend a 300D! I have a 240D ;) >Jim/ I didn't think THAT needed mentioning... however, every 240D owner I've ever met always rubbed the MPG figures in my 300D face... ;) My 300D (non turbo) go around 25mpg or so... what does your 240D get? :) btw, my last tank was only 31mpg on my 190D... time to bump the timing up a bit more. ;) john > > the 240D and 300Ds were the same bodywise... not sure > > why a 240D would look any sportier then the same 300D in silver... > > > > no turbo's in the US on the 240D. > > > > john > > > > At 12:46 PM 5/7/2003 -0700, Anaeis N wrote: > > >What are the differences between the early '80s 300s and 240s, both > > >mechanically and stylistically? Which would you reccomend? Do the >240s > > >come in turbo? I saw a silver one on the highway this morning and >thought > > >it looked a bit sportier than than the 300s I see around all the >time. > > >Rebecca Weisser > > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- >Jim Hoffman >Oconomowoc WI >'39 Allis Model B >'53 Ford Golden Jubilee >'?? Bolens Huskie Gardener - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:16:13 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s > At 04:02 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > I didn't think THAT needed mentioning... however, every > 240D owner I've ever met always rubbed the MPG figures in > my 300D face... ;) My 300D (non turbo) go around 25mpg > or so... what does your 240D get? :) > It's been sitting in the drive for months now waiting for a new floorboard for the rear seat! Doesn't get many MPG's at all! ;) I believe I was averaging somewhere around 29mpg... I thought it should have been better. :( Jim/ '83 240D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 13:27:27 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 04:16:13PM -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > At 04:02 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > I didn't think THAT needed mentioning... however, every > > 240D owner I've ever met always rubbed the MPG figures in > > my 300D face... ;) My 300D (non turbo) go around 25mpg > > or so... what does your 240D get? :) > > It's been sitting in the drive for months now waiting for a new > floorboard for the rear seat! Doesn't get many MPG's at all! ;) > > I believe I was averaging somewhere around 29mpg... I thought it > should have been better. :( Might be time to check the valves then. I'd like to think it would get better than 29 mpg also. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:40:30 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s Well, that's a good point Kevin... I had JUST adjusted the valves and taken it for a test drive (ran very nicely) when I decided to check the *listing left* that the seat was doing and that's when I found the rotted out floorpan and stopped driving it. So maybe after I get the beast back on the road MPG will be improved. Jim/ '83 240D > > Might be time to check the valves then. I'd like to think it would get better > than 29 mpg also. > > K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 13:41:31 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s At 04:13 PM 5/7/2003 -0400, Paul Brown wrote: >I'm getting less than 20 mpg on my 240 D. What am I doing wrong? hard to say... timing chain, timing? valves? lead foot? ;) bad injectors? clogged air filter? worn rings? slipping tranny, flat tires... I've never gotten that low of mileage on any of my diesel benz's. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:01:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: comparing 300s and 240s Anaeis N wrote: > > What are the differences between the early '80s 300s and 240s, both > mechanically and stylistically? Which would you reccomend? Do the 240s > come in turbo? *** Not only not turbo, but the engine is smaller. They are said to be extremely slow. I have a friend at the airport who has a 240D. He started it up one day - sure did sound sweet. Nice & quiet. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:09:03 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: My 190d is spoken for On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 06:21:09PM -0700, DerickAA wrote: > The red car has been spoken for. I will let the buyer decide if they wish to > reveal themselves. :) hehehe... who, me? K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 14:15:12 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: crazy thought... 3.0L TD into J10? At 04:10 PM 5/7/2003 -0500, David M. Elliott wrote: >Any word on the diesel that the Liberty's are going to be sporting? >last I heard it was a 3.0 mercedes based motor... Just a thought. >What about a larger diesel, GM 6.2? Maybe a Cummins variant? More HP and >Torque and still better milage than the 4.0.... > >-Dave I think it's the same 3.5L TD used in Europe... VM? An Italian Diesel? Or, it could be the new Mercedes CDI. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 14:17:43 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: My 190d is spoken for At 02:09 PM 5/7/2003 -0700, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 06:21:09PM -0700, DerickAA wrote: > > The red car has been spoken for. I will let the buyer decide if they > wish to > > reveal themselves. :) > >hehehe... who, me? >K I should have known... ;) Let me know when you get up here... I want to swap a few parts off of that thing before you leave. ;) We should get together with Derick and get a group shot of all our 190's together. When are you coming up? :) You ought to come up to Snohomish and check out my J10 trailer... and then stop in Centralia and check out Rambo and SuperDawg and Rocky... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1009 **********************************